Pulse Induction versus VLF machines.

Please forgive my creating a second thread, but there is a battle going on inside my head. My metal detecting sites are moderately mineralized. I DID hunt a site the other day that was bordering on extreme mineralization. A field that was drilled with soybeans, but they have been harvested. I have a strong feeling that the chemicals that they spray on that field caused the extreme mineralization. On my deus, the little black dots on the FE meter where about three dots from being completely filled. (if that makes sense). Now, the woods all around the field is not THAT mineralized.
Second point: I hunt alot of large pine forest where the pine straw is 4 to 5 inches thick, not to mention the small dead branches that get blown off every time that there is a storm. I squeaked a bullet out of there last year, by BARELY hearing an iron grunt. I kicked away the pine straw, which is very thick, and dug a bullet that was down around 7 inches (although I didn't measure it, and I tend to exaggerate about depth)
The places that hunt have been pounded for years. But we went back to a spot last Tuesday, and my friend found 17 dropped 54 three ringers, and a piece of 8 pounder shrapnel. I found a Enfield bullet that had been fired that STILL has the rosewood plug in it!!!!!! I also found a pice of shrapnel and a few more bullets. But this area has a subsoil. It is in the woods. I feel that , if a man could get down to the subsoil, there would be some stuff there. My VLF's won't get there. Even though my ground is not very mineralised (compared to East Tennessee and Ga and surrounding areas), am I still a good candidate for a Pulse Indiction machine. There are only a few scattered pieces of iron (the occasional square nail....or half of one). They are not thick in this area. But I really need a deep unit. There is a power line nearby (25 to 75 yards). It's a confederate camp. Gold pieces have been found here. Oh, and I found a canteen hook last Tues, too. But shallow. For you PI users, am I a good candidate for Pulse Induction. I feel that if I had one, I might could go where no man has gone before....so to speak. But my reasoning may very well be flawed. If so, please tell me. I can take it. lol

And you and others have used how many VLF's in there?
There is no reason you cannot try a PI. Just remember a PI works different from a VLF. You need to put some time into them and learn the ropes.
Most will not do that and sell off a PI after only a few outings.
A PI could be your next best friend to get down there and pick up the relics other machines missed.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
There are a number of guys here that can give you the scoop on a deep relic hunter PI.
Not all PI's are created equal. Some geared better to gold prospecting while others are better geared to deep relics. Others are somewhere in between.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

"Well said Sven.
It's not an easy task [ to take up ] a PI unit and "expect results instantly"...it's a whole New Learning curve...

I'm on beaches mostly these past two months due to fields underwater in some recent flooding and it's DEEP diggin' and Not Easy"

Thanks Sven1 and Des D. Yes, I have about made my mind up. I mean, I have some bullets buried outside (and the ground here at home is not nearly as mineralized as my favorite sites) and my Makro Racer is 'iron grunting' on an 8 inch bullet. Please don't get me wrong, I have had my Racer almost a year now. My Deus, not near as long. But right now, the VLF's are still finding stuff but soon, the stuff that is detectable will run out. And I like this hobby enough to invest in some good equipment and some learning time. I'll have the weekend to think on it.
I appreciate your all's feedback. Happy Hunting!!!!

Look at it this way.

At best, with all stars aligned perfectly, all settings correct, you might get a diggable signal on a minie ball at 12-13 inches in good soil with a good VLF machine. Most likely, the easy detectable ones are 8-10 inches.

With a PI machine, someone with little to no prior experience can take and balance it, and dig 12-13 inch minies all day long, in any soil type. Someone with a GPX and a few hours under their belt can get 14-15 inch minies pretty easy. Someone with more hours and the right settings can pull them 15-17 inches with the 11 inch coil and deeper with the bigger coils. Belt plates are easy to nab at 20+ inches. Tony H dug an ammo crate of minies at last springs hunt at 30 something inches deep.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look at it this way.
>
> At best, with all stars aligned perfectly, all
> settings correct, you might get a diggable signal
> on a minie ball at 12-13 inches in good soil with
> a good VLF machine. Most likely, the easy
> detectable ones are 8-10 inches.
>
> With a PI machine, someone with little to no prior
> experience can take and balance it, and dig 12-13
> inch minies all day long, in any soil type.
> Someone with a GPX and a few hours under their
> belt can get 14-15 inch minies pretty easy.
> Someone with more hours and the right settings can
> pull them 15-17 inches with the 11 inch coil and
> deeper with the bigger coils. Belt plates are easy
> to nab at 20+ inches. Tony H dug an ammo crate of
> minies at last springs hunt at 30 something inches
> deep.

Good deal!!!! I'm getting it!!!! If I find that it is too much for me, you will get first dibs, Daniel. I'm going to start researching the good settings immediately. I am really looking forward to this new (to me) technology!!! Many is the time that forum members stated that I should try one, since I have had alot of the VLF's. Now is the time. I won't sleep tonite! or tomorrow nite. lol

There are some places that a PI is just not a good choice. If you are relic hunting........ then you are digging about everything, using a VLF you possibly arent..... or you are flipping back to disc from AM. LOT of digging if you hit a field of iron from an old building ect. Some machines dont have fast recovery in disc....... so if you are getting a lot of nulling thats not where id use a PI unless you just want to clean it out. Small iron also can affect the depth of a VLF in trash....... but then so can to much sensitivity on a slow recovery machine. If you have hunted an area with a VLF that has fast recovery or in AM which dosnt have the slow recovery time for processing, then you know if its worth hitting it with a PI.

You can get into a used TDI SL or pro for very reasonable just to test the waters so to speak. If you decide you like it maybe look at the GPX down the road. Pi technology can open up places that are so called hunted out but are not the best choice at the wrong site.

Kevin, the Blisstool V6 shouldn't be overlooked. It is a Vlf and does have disc. Deep!!!! On 3 ringers too especially in your soil mineralization. And I should add IMO I think the Blisstool in your neck of the woods is deeper than TDI, ATX on higher conductors and on par with GPX.
And Blisstool V6 a good bit cheaper than any model GPX.
Blisstool V6 paired with a Deus in your area= a deadly combo on relics and money, jewelry.

Now, if we start talking about 5/6 bars F75 soil, then yes Pulse all day long.

Blisstool V6 is a more versatile site for site detector. A person can hunt in iron and trash with one.
Not as heavy as most PI detectors either.

You may want to look at the Blisstool forum. Some good deep relics are being had in Va using both Blisstool V5 and V6.
And many of these sites are not super mineralized either, but have been pounded by about everything under the sun-- yet users of Blisstool are still making finds.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2016 01:58AM by tnsharpshooter.

I don't think you are going to be disappointed in a GPX. The only people that are iffy/doubtful about them are the ones who haven't used one and try to downplay them. Everyone I know that has went to one of them has stuck with it and wont hunt with anything else unless it is a site specific detector for loads of iron. For farm fields and woods...nothing can touch it. The Blisstool is good but not even in the same depth league. It takes a lot of tweaking with a Blisstool to achieve the depth...and even then, one wrong setting can mean the difference in hearing a signal or nothing at all. And if you got the Blisstool and didnt like it...good luck selling it for anywhere close to what you paid for it. You might pay $1,200 for it today and use it a week and can't get $400 out of it. With the GPX, you will always be able to find interest in selling one used and they retain their value.

Well, I'm certainly not knocking the GPX detectors. They do have their pros and cons.
I was just giving Kevin another option to consider.

And I must say. Not many V5 or V6 Blisstools ever for sale really. And what few V5s that do come up for sale--- those same folks seem to be going for the V6 model.

I have red soils here. Bad soil, mineralized. Made a test with all my machines, a test with 50 euro cent coin buried: ATX is not better than V6 with 15" coil. I think that ,working in all metal, V6 with 15" coil is deeper than my ATX.

On your ATX test. What coil did you use on it for the test? If you are using the stock coil, then your test should be with your Bliss with similar sized coil. If you are using an 11 or 12 inch coil vs a 15 inch coil, your data is going to be skewed.

I'm not that familiar with the ATX but am widely familiar with the Minelab GPX and Whites TDI models. I would stay away from the TDI SL. The regular TDI or TDI Pro is what I would suggest over the SL model. When it comes to the GPX, there still ain't anything that can touch it coil size for coil size. Well except the GPZ and most people that used them at the DIV went back to the GPX after a while. Simply for the iron disc feature.

By definition if a VLF matches a ground balancing PI for depth then the ground is not as mineralized as you think.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On your ATX test. What coil did you use on it for
> the test? If you are using the stock coil, then
> your test should be with your Bliss with similar
> sized coil. If you are using an 11 or 12 inch
> coil vs a 15 inch coil, your data is going to be
> skewed.
>
> I'm not that familiar with the ATX but am widely
> familiar with the Minelab GPX and Whites TDI
> models. I would stay away from the TDI SL. The
> regular TDI or TDI Pro is what I would suggest
> over the SL model. When it comes to the GPX, there
> still ain't anything that can touch it coil size
> for coil size. Well except the GPZ and most people
> that used them at the DIV went back to the GPX
> after a while. Simply for the iron disc feature.


Granted a clad dime is a high conductor.

With stock coils on both Blisstool V6 and Garret ATX.

Clad dime at 13" deep in my soil.

ATX will not provide any tone what so ever with any settings.
Blisstool V6 will hit the dime with my normal hunt settings-- meaning disc is employed.

My ground is 4 bars on F75.

A nickel at this same depth--- I would wager ATX would bang and even deeper than 13", probably tone in at depth approx 16". But I haven't tried.

And we also need to remember this 13" deep dime is for all practical purposes is oriented more or less flat in the ground.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2016 12:59AM by tnsharpshooter.

TNSS - That would be very similar to how a TDI would do on the dime. I've dug minies with the TDI that was in the 12-13 inch range but they took a good ear to get and probably wouldn't be able to squeeze any more out of it. The same depth nickel or eagle button would scream DIG ME all day long with it. The dime with a GPX and stock 11" DD coil would give a no brainer dig me at that depth. The thick iron scares people off with a pulse machine. I will incorporate the smaller coils and cut back on gain in those areas and just hunt slower. In bad ground I am still getting better depth than most all of the VLFs out there, even with it throttled way back.

I'm still up in the air about getting my wife a Bliss V6 for the DIV hunt. My biggest fear is not that it wont work but that I wont be able to sell it for much if need be after the hunt. If I like it, it wouldn't matter. But I am still very sore over the V3 fiasco.

Some more good info.

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

I may do some test today on some deep CW buttons and deep 3 ringers with both ATX and Blisstool.
Now they won't be ideal test -- will stick them in the side of hole and put the dirt and plug in.

I also want to check Blisstool at varying depths while leaving disc depth set to my usual setting for hunting using some various sized buttons.

May also try a regular nickel as well.

I can say this.
I dug some exceeding small buttons and grommets in a site with medium mineralized soil with ATX-- fairly deep too.
And this particular site had been busted hard by a couple of GPX models-- not the newer GPZ 7000.
And at this site dug no bullets or anything regular button sized using my ATX.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2016 11:14AM by tnsharpshooter.

Well, my GPX is on it's way. I have already started my learning curve. I know that this is asking alot.....and I don't take it for granted....but is there a way to set the machine that is more conducive for relics like bullets, buttons, knapsak hooks, etc.
I am going to have to make an elaborate test garden to hear what the GPX sound like when the loop passes over an old square nail (at different depths) and old pieces of mess tins (in the campsite).
Anyway, I have downloaded the Owners Manual and am jamming the info into my head. I am dedicated to learning this machine. It's just too well made to just buy and sell. I even went and bought a trencher with a long handle (like Aquachigger uses) lol. I'll put a sharp edge on it tomorrow.
I fully understand that I will be doing alot of digging of junk. But I will be VERY mindful of the sound that junk targets make. But DANG! I'm all tore up with excitement!!!!!!!!!!!

Sharp and Normal timings are my favorite two for relic hunting. In that order.For starters, you might be of benefit to reduce your gain to say 2 or 3 until you are more familiar with the machine. The higher conductors will give a low tone with a high tail end starting out...if they are closer to the loop. The deeper ones will sometimes just give a low tone. Leave the iron reject at factory preset. A good non ferrous target will be smooth and unbroken (unless it is something shallow and close to the coil then it will overload). I'm glad you took the plunge Kevin. I think your pounded sites where the deep finds are, are fixing to light up. The first minie you did at 12+ inches you will be hooked . Especially when you start out thinking that by the signal, that it should just be 4 or 5 inches down. First comes the plug...target still in the hole. Then a few shovel fulls later, it is out and singing loud and clear.

It's a bad soil where Dèus can barely detect 50 euro coin inside a 8" hole. 7" is ok but 8" is really very difficult. Mineralization bar on the right is almost full. I know that there are really bad soils, worse than the red one of my area indeed, but this is anyway a hot one. ATX was with its stock coil and V6 with the 15" one but the first one is a P.I and the other a VLF.
V6 with the stock is about 1.5" less deep than ATX. The same with 10 euro cent buried and the V6 with the 11".

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sharp and Normal timings are my favorite two for
> relic hunting. In that order.For starters, you
> might be of benefit to reduce your gain to say 2
> or 3 until you are more familiar with the machine.
> The higher conductors will give a low tone with a
> high tail end starting out...if they are closer to
> the loop. The deeper ones will sometimes just give
> a low tone. Leave the iron reject at factory
> preset. A good non ferrous target will be smooth
> and unbroken (unless it is something shallow and
> close to the coil then it will overload). I'm
> glad you took the plunge Kevin. I think your
> pounded sites where the deep finds are, are fixing
> to light up. The first minie you did at 12+
> inches you will be hooked . Especially when you
> start out thinking that by the signal, that it
> should just be 4 or 5 inches down. First comes the
> plug...target still in the hole. Then a few shovel
> fulls later, it is out and singing loud and clear.


Daniel, that is some very valuable information to me. I was wondering about the 'timings' and how I could set them to benefit my pursuit. You have given me some great info and I'm grateful. (Bad Storms on the way!!! Please be mindful that these storms are moving north-east and are conducive to tornadic events) Dang, I sound like the National Weather Service!...lol But please be careful.......any of you who live in Tennessee or other areas that are involved. I use the weather-channel page on the web. Just a 'heads-up' for ya. Thanks again for the tips. After my first couple of trips with the GPX I will very likely have a few more questions. If it gets to where I'm bugging you, or any other member, please let me know. I can get all caught up in something and get really selfish, really quick. Not my intention.....but it happens. Stay safe. kevin

Daniel you are right on your thoughts.
I have the TDI SL and can say it has found goodies in hunted out sites where I've had some 15 different VLF machines.
Bad ground, good ground is not a problem.