Electronically updatable detectors

Well,
I see the Racer 2 a coming.

What if the original Racer would have had USB port and would have been designed to be updated via Internet much like Deus???

I suspect some original Racer purchasers will be upset.

But what if this update could have been done to the original Racer,,,, how much $$$$ dollar wise would folks have been willing to pay???

For example $100 dollars.

Seems far more cost saving going this route versus a person having to pony up for a whole new detector.

Brand loyalty would definitely start to blossom.

Btw, this is indeed where Blisstool went wrong with their multiple releases in a rather short period of time.

I would like to hear folks input on this.

We are in a digital world now, so why not take advantage of it????

Makes perfect sense to me.

I do like how Makro has addressed customer concerns with the Racer 2, I just think they could have done different / better.
Besides, some manufacturer needs to give Xp Deus a run for their money.

Does anyone in their right mind think for example,,,,
If Xp would have released Deus non updatable, to in fact released a Deus, then say 18 months later a Deus 2, then 18 months later a Deus 3.

Would the Deus be even remotely as popular if done?? In the USA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2016 05:01PM by tnsharpshooter.

i believe deus is stuck in a hardware limitation now..

Well it looks like version 4.0 likely not to cost me a penny.
Or maybe a penny or 2 with the electrical energy to in fact download.
And this new coil in the works.
How much will it cost??? Say $500
This is cheaper than say another detector purchase.

And a 5 year warranty to boot.

Remember it is the Deus coil where all the magic takes place.

User updatable software is the way to go, keeps current a model by changing the software only. Users win because their "old" hardware not only gets updated but holds its value.

Downside for manufacturers is that you don't get to introduce a new model and capture $$ from the upgrade urge of existing users.

Also, hardware changes come along and then the software has to change to take advantage of or cope with it, this often means the earlier units can't run the new software.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I know it is not that simple, but keep in mind you can buy almost 3 Racers for the cost of one Deus. Also, there are improvements that require new hardware. You are getting all new parts and a second detector with the updated hardware vs new software. Ideally, one does not have to choose one route to the exclusion of the other. Look at how the cell phone market works, of course they are a vastly larger pool of resources to draw from and divide.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Pasttom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know it is not that simple, but keep in mind you
> can buy almost 3 Racers for the cost of one Deus.
> Also, there are improvements that require new
> hardware. You are getting all new parts and a
> second detector with the updated hardware vs new
> software. Ideally, one does not have to choose
> one route to the exclusion of the other. Look at
> how the cell phone market works, of course they
> are a vastly larger pool of resources to draw from
> and divide.


Not that simple???

Well let's see.

Remember the tones being out of syncs with original Racer-- Keith pointed this out btw

It was changed-- tones now aligned progressive.

How did Makro do this???

I suspect they changed the program--- in their facility.

Could this have been done externally using Internet update--- if original Racer would have been wired/ plugged as such??

How come Xp is the only one it seems can do such a thing???

Minelab--- they seemed to have done something close with CTX, but even they have shunned!!!!

The new update will be interesting when it arrives. I love the basic machine now but a few tweeks to the software to improve VDI and other functions and this might be the only detector for good ground I ever own. If I want to splurge for a new coil, that option is available of course for a price. Not sure I will need the capability to operate in the 30KhZ or 40 KHz range unless the machine software will also be updated to handle extreme hot ground.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pasttom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I know it is not that simple, but keep in mind
> you
> > can buy almost 3 Racers for the cost of one
> Deus.
> > Also, there are improvements that require new
> > hardware. You are getting all new parts and a
> > second detector with the updated hardware vs
> new
> > software. Ideally, one does not have to choose
> > one route to the exclusion of the other. Look
> at
> > how the cell phone market works, of course they
> > are a vastly larger pool of resources to draw
> from
> > and divide.
>
>
> Not that simple???
>
> Well let's see.
>
> Remember the tones being out of syncs with
> original Racer-- Keith pointed this out btw
>
> It was changed-- tones now aligned progressive.
>
> How did Makro do this???
>
> I suspect they changed the program--- in their
> facility.
>
> Could this have been done externally using
> Internet update--- if original Racer would have
> been wired/ plugged as such??
>
> How come Xp is the only one it seems can do such a
> thing???
>
> Minelab--- they seemed to have done something
> close with CTX, but even they have shunned!!!!

they can't change the racer style LCD panel with a software update.

I feel its called profits.....unless of course updates are done free.....that's why clothes styles change, washers and dryers only last so long....car tires wear out etc...if not companies would soon go under...

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pasttom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I know it is not that simple, but keep in
> mind
> > you
> > > can buy almost 3 Racers for the cost of one
> > Deus.
> > > Also, there are improvements that require new
> > > hardware. You are getting all new parts and
> a
> > > second detector with the updated hardware vs
> > new
> > > software. Ideally, one does not have to
> choose
> > > one route to the exclusion of the other.
> Look
> > at
> > > how the cell phone market works, of course
> they
> > > are a vastly larger pool of resources to draw
> > from
> > > and divide.
> >
> >
> > Not that simple???
> >
> > Well let's see.
> >
> > Remember the tones being out of syncs with
> > original Racer-- Keith pointed this out btw
> >
> > It was changed-- tones now aligned progressive.
> >
> > How did Makro do this???
> >
> > I suspect they changed the program--- in their
> > facility.
> >
> > Could this have been done externally using
> > Internet update--- if original Racer would have
> > been wired/ plugged as such??
> >
> > How come Xp is the only one it seems can do such
> a
> > thing???
> >
> > Minelab--- they seemed to have done something
> > close with CTX, but even they have shunned!!!!
>
> they can't change the racer style LCD panel with a
> software update.


Of course they can" t change the panel.

If they would have had more forward thinking with the layout--- you wouldn't have to change the panel

Part of the genius behind Deus.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> detectingMO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Pasttom Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I know it is not that simple, but keep in
> > mind
> > > you
> > > > can buy almost 3 Racers for the cost of one
> > > Deus.
> > > > Also, there are improvements that require
> new
> > > > hardware. You are getting all new parts
> and
> > a
> > > > second detector with the updated hardware
> vs
> > > new
> > > > software. Ideally, one does not have to
> > choose
> > > > one route to the exclusion of the other.
> > Look
> > > at
> > > > how the cell phone market works, of course
> > they
> > > > are a vastly larger pool of resources to
> draw
> > > from
> > > > and divide.
> > >
> > >
> > > Not that simple???
> > >
> > > Well let's see.
> > >
> > > Remember the tones being out of syncs with
> > > original Racer-- Keith pointed this out btw
> > >
> > > It was changed-- tones now aligned
> progressive.
> > >
> > > How did Makro do this???
> > >
> > > I suspect they changed the program--- in
> their
> > > facility.
> > >
> > > Could this have been done externally using
> > > Internet update--- if original Racer would
> have
> > > been wired/ plugged as such??
> > >
> > > How come Xp is the only one it seems can do
> such
> > a
> > > thing???
> > >
> > > Minelab--- they seemed to have done something
> > > close with CTX, but even they have
> shunned!!!!
> >
> > they can't change the racer style LCD panel with
> a
> > software update.
>
>
> Of course they can" t change the panel.
>
> If they would have had more forward thinking with
> the layout--- you wouldn't have to change the
> panel
>
> Part of the genius behind Deus.

Is it genius or potential financial suicide? They will eventually need for people to buy more detectors. I would imagine we will see a 3-5 year hardware evolution to keep that $ flowing in.

I'm not sure it's genius. XP have used an off-the-shelf dot-matrix display (128 x 64 pixels?) for cheapness and convenience, rather than having a nice big custom-made display produced, like other manufacturers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2016 09:55PM by Pimento.

Hello all. I would like to chime in here and make a few comments.
Offering an electronic update with today’s technology is the easy part and has nothing to do with ‘’being able to do it’’. Please keep in mind though there are some changes possible through a software update and there are others which are not and let’s not forget about physical design changes. The Racer uses a custom LCD where it was impossible to make all the changes we are offering in the Racer 2 through a simple software update. Now if you ask us why we used a custom LCD- the answer is simple. We wanted to offer a device where customers could have access to all settings on 1 single screen and that was very easy to use so this was a choice we made and it was appreciated by many users.
After we released Racer, there were many feedbacks and wishes from customers and as we always try to focus on what the customers need, we decided to offer them what they have asked for in the Racer 2.
Sure this does not mean that this will be our approach in every product we will come out with. We may offer electronic updates on our future models for customers whose preferences are different. Think of it this way – we released the Gold Racer – many loved it but some prospectors said they would prefer a design with no screen and knobs only. As a manufacturer, we will try to satisfy all. We have been working hard and we will continue until we have a comprehensive product range that will offer each type of detectorists what they like or need.
Thank you!

Well it seems quite a few serious relic hunters indeed have Deus, and Goldmaxx as well.

Coincidence???

Don.'t think so.

Granted the wireless concept would not be near as good from a sales standpoint ---- if employed on a mediocre platform.

Minelab could do great wonders here too--- if they would devise a light weight detector with CTX like performance.

And not necessary waterproof either.

You just wait--- another manufacturer will eventually see the light.
It is the 21st century now.
Time to start producing,

Btw
The resolution on the Minelab CTX screen --for what it cost, is it really top notch??? Don't think so. Crap IMO for the loot!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2016 10:15PM by tnsharpshooter.

Xp deus cost $1230.00-$2050.00 vs makro racer $649.00
You can buy use and sell and rebuy new versions of the makro racer for decades in price difference.
No other $649.00 detector or $1099.00 for that matter is electronically updateable.
My original t2 still gets by real well.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

IIRC I paid $249 to upgrade my F75 LTD to a F75 LTD2 plus an additional three year transferable warranty.

That seems reasonable to me. I'd happily pay that for the upgrade my R1 to the R2, BUT I also like the fact that with the R2 you get the improved new 11" DD coil, and other improved hardware.

Well, at least since Nokta responded, they are aware--- this is good.

I look at is like this.

In the bigger world of metal detecting/ detectors.

What people want is performance for the buck paid.

And at the same time, a metal detector manufacturer wants a buck for what they engineer and release.

Producing a electronic updatable detector is possible--- we know this to be fact I.e. Deus

Here is what I see happening.

I fully expect to see metal detector platforms to be more short lived-- far shorter than previously

So with this happening, folks will be even more leery towards making additional purchases

Meaning to have to keep buying entire detectors---- to indeed have what I call a baby step in performance detector.

The detector market is getting more crowded--- can't argue this fact

And it would only seem reasonable someone's market share has to suffer

Imagine for example-- the Xp Deus

Would it be as popular if version 2.0 would have been the end update--- I suppose if this was indeed fact, Deus platform would have already for all practical purposes, be in the dumpster.

And yes devising a detector that is updatable---- will take some real forethought, but forethought is/ can separate the men from the boys so to speak.

And remember when thinking about all this---- it does seem there is a wall that has been hit when it comes to overall depth

Just seems now, detector improvements key on making better use of this limited overall depth

And the same can be said of unmasking and separation.

So who will be next in line to infact do??? To join Xp...

If they did not charge for the downloaded update then they would have lost any repeat buyers and go bankrupt quickly.
New detectorist make up a small portion of sales,its us gotta have a new machine guys that are their bread&butter.
Without our bread that can't buy no butter,I love butter.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2016 03:40AM by supertraq.

One thing I like about the Deus is if I do the update and don't like it, I can go back to the 3,0 . If I buy a new Racer and don't like it as well as the Racer 1 then I must sell the Racer 2 and find another Racer 1. Lose money two times. I have a Racer 1 and like it, now do I sell my Racer1 and get a Racer2 ? I don't know if I would like it as much as Racer1. I can't buy the next one till I sell the first one. What to do ???

Well if makro makes them updateable then they will need to jack the price up to equal the deus and make big money off you all at once so they can make a profit on fewer detectors being sold.
You know because the free upgrades want pay the light bill on a $649.00 detector that after they sell to the buyers,us, and don't sell a significant amount thereafter because users like us would no longer need to buy a new machine.
$150.00 upgrade fee on their lower price of say $1000.00 initial buy in price might work.
Me personally will stick with my teknetics t2 and greeks & cz6a.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2016 03:46PM by supertraq.

Wow, the XP fanboy fanatic base is hard core! I swapped my XP Deus for two nice detectors, one is a TDI with 3 coils and I sold the other one and bought a Racer with 3 coils. I feel I am MUCH better equipped than the Deus with one 11 inch coil. I am still waiting to feel bad when the new coil and v4 are released, but I got tired of waiting.
I was keenly impressed by the menu system of the Deus, but the Racer's is better IMHO.
Let the shredding begin.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Updating detectors? It only works if the manufacturer releases updates. So Minelab and their one update for the CTX just doesn't cut it. The Deus? Three updates with the third requiring new hardware (coil) to take advantage of it. Updates are a scam. A false promise. The only person I know that really gets anything out of them is Andy what's his name with a new book for every update. You will love our update.Keep your detector. It's coming out soon. Maybe by the end of the year. Well now it has slipped until Spring. And then they have the nerve to act like they are pissed off when you ask about the updates. Well they have to make sure of this and that. Excuse and false promises. Better promises are made on prom night. I'll still respect you in the morning.

Nokta Detectors Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello all. I would like to chime in here and make
> a few comments.
> Offering an electronic update with today’s
> technology is the easy part and has nothing to do
> with ‘’being able to do it’’. Please keep
> in mind though there are some changes possible
> through a software update and there are others
> which are not and let’s not forget about
> physical design changes. The Racer uses a custom
> LCD where it was impossible to make all the
> changes we are offering in the Racer 2 through a
> simple software update. Now if you ask us why we
> used a custom LCD- the answer is simple. We wanted
> to offer a device where customers could have
> access to all settings on 1 single screen and that
> was very easy to use so this was a choice we made
> and it was appreciated by many users.
> After we released Racer, there were many feedbacks
> and wishes from customers and as we always try to
> focus on what the customers need, we decided to
> offer them what they have asked for in the Racer
> 2.
> Sure this does not mean that this will be our
> approach in every product we will come out with.
> We may offer electronic updates on our future
> models for customers whose preferences are
> different. Think of it this way – we released
> the Gold Racer – many loved it but some
> prospectors said they would prefer a design with
> no screen and knobs only. As a manufacturer, we
> will try to satisfy all. We have been working hard
> and we will continue until we have a comprehensive
> product range that will offer each type of
> detectorists what they like or need.
> Thank you!

I heard you will be coming out with the Impact, (or maybe it is a different name and I can't remember it?)I'm just curious, what will be the differences between that and the Racer 2?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2016 07:35PM by jimmyzr1.

One other thing,you'll no longer have a reason to buy a new detector so that will make the boss lady happy.
I miss the misses,I have metal detectors but no wifey anymore,kinda sad.lol

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2016 04:07AM by supertraq.