Mikey...……. A TRR of '2' does indeed present slightly greater depth performance (in most applications)...….. is still within the parameters of human audible intelligibility; yet, just starts to go out of 'electronic tune' with the Max-Q of the EQX. But...……… in this case; the attributes outweigh the slight detriment.

Mike...…….. If only you could see (first-hand) what the Tarsacci could do. It would be a real eye-opener...….. and......it sounds like...….. in several/many of your applications. Its design intent..... specifically targets just exactly those conditions. Black sand combined with wet salt. Even with very low Sens settings. Folks in NZ are now experiencing this.

Tom D. Is there a greater advantage in using a 6 inch coil on the CTX for unmasking targets vs the 11 inch coil compared to 6 inch coil vs 11 inch coil on the Equinox? If so could you guess about how much? Are we talking 25% to 50% advantage? And compared to using the 11 inch coil vs 17 inch coil on the CTX is there any advantage for coin size targets for depth? Will the 17 inch coil hit deeper and harder on deep coins? Thanks

McCJ2...…. I'm only partially in-the-know with the CTX and both coils. NOT enough to give accurate/precise data!

I'd like to see the prospecting mode have the lower freqs available, might make for a hoard hunter.

g..……. that's what Park Mode-1 & Field Mode-1...… in concert with TRR of '1' is for.

Thanks Tom, I just thought there might have been less filtering going on in prospecting mode, and perhaps depth?

ghound……. Yes..... the Prospecting Modes are much more raw data...…. and the only Modes with a true/real Threshold. BUT...… because these are high-freq Modes...…. they provide superior depth on tiny/low conductors...… and NOT on hoards.

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bryan,
>
> I totally agree with you here. 50 tones is a "must," IMO, when sorting through iron with this unit, and YES -- I totally agree that the Equinox audio is under-rated by many. LOTS of intelligence there, at least to my ears...
>
> Steve
>

I agree. I forced myself to use 50 tones from day one and I feel like it's paying off with the ability to pick out the goods in heavy junk. Although Abenson's been killing it on smaller gold coins around the nickle range.

I've been mainly using Field2, but after reading this thread I've been testing Park1, audio is different then Field 2 for sure, not sure about depth difference, Field2 was super deep for mel, maybe Park1 will clean up the audio.

Tom... I’m not at the house to check and don’t use prospecting much.... can’t you use single freq/lower freq?

Prospecting Mode on a single lower frequency...…. would almost completely defeat the intent of hoard hunting.... with the EQX. You would then be better off using Park Mode-1 in multi-freq.

(((…..and Prospecting Modes only allow for 20Khz, 40Khz and Multi.... anyway. No 'low' freq's available/allowed.)))

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Mike...…….. If only you could see (first-hand) wha
> t the Tarsacci could do. It would be a real eye-op
> ener...….. and......it sounds like...….. in sever
> al/many of your applications. Its design intent...
> .. specifically targets just exactly those conditi
> ons. Black sand combined with wet salt. Even with
> very low Sens settings. Folks in NZ are now experi
> encing this.

Tom... I really wish I could see it in action too, first hand, but living in Africa has its disadvantages. *sigh* No demo units available? lol
I just wonder which coil would be ideal for Cape Town - I wouldn't want the specifically made for New Zealand coil to rob me of depth, as Durban and Cape Town are quite different with Durban being the extreme and closest to NZ... something to bear in mind when handling purchases from South Africa...
One day...

Mike........you would get the regular coil. Not the extremely bad dirt coil that we prototype tested. Those are hard to make......and not fun to create either!

@ Tom-D,in your suggested settings for silver coinage you suggested Park1 with some tweaks,my specific question is more aimed at the UK silver/gold hammered coinage which are usually thin etc,would i be right in saying that Park2 with the higher freq bias would be a slight advantage for our hammered coins or do you still reckon Park 1 is the best option,i had been using Field 1 since i bought the Equinox and apart from fine tuning not used any other main setting.I have all 3 coil options but if i am honest i still like using my 6'' coil the most and occasionally the 15'' when on pasture sites,but rarely use the stock coil.

So the current setup that i mainly use for almost 90% of my detecting in saxon/roman site is Park2 with my settings changed to my persoanl audio likes and also my favourite coil the 6'' one,i fully understand i loose some possibly depth but it makes up on trashy habitation roman sites and that is when i feel this combination is at its deadliest.

But would like your input on what would be the best baseline setting either Park 1 or Park 2,my way of thinking the latter could be slight better because of the higher freq bias ???

Many thanks

J&D ……. there is a unsuspecting catch-22 with our thought-process.

In theory...…. Field Mode-2 (and especially the Prospecting Modes)…… are the most sensitive to thin low-conductors (coins included).
Also...… in an air-test...… this is proven!
Even in a textbook-perfect sterile test-garden!
BUT...… when you bring in the real World...… the ballgame COMPLETELY changes.

Park Mode-1 is the most stable...…. is less attenuated by dirt and flecks/flakes of disintegrated iron...…… usually encounters less EMI...…….. provides the most/best ID-resolve.,.,.,.,.,.,., and a host of other attributes. Collectively ……. all of these attributes result in 'best depth & ID' performance.
You WANT to hunt in Field Mode-2 or Prospecting Modes. It is everything you have learned..... and believe in; yet, real-world reality prevails. Park Mode-1 wins.
Yes..... there are cases whereby..... some unique/extenuating circumstance may result in the other Modes outperforming; but...… this is the exception...….. and not the norm.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> J&D ……. there is a unsuspecting catch-22 with our
> thought-process.
>
> In theory...…. Field Mode-2 (and especially the Pr
> ospecting Modes)…… are the most sensitive to thin
> low-conductors (coins included).
> Also...… in an air-test...… this is proven!
> Even in a textbook-perfect sterile test-garden!
> BUT...… when you bring in the real World...… the b
> allgame COMPLETELY changes.
>
> Park Mode-1 is the most stable...…. is less attenu
> ated by dirt and flecks/flakes of disintegrated ir
> on...…… usually encounters less EMI...…….. provide
> s the most/best ID-resolve.,.,.,.,.,.,., and a hos
> t of other attributes. Collectively ……. all of the
> se attributes result in 'best depth & ID' performa
> nce.
> You WANT to hunt in Field Mode-2 or Prospecting Mo
> des. It is everything you have learned..... and be
> lieve in; yet, real-world reality prevails. Park M
> ode-1 wins.
> Yes..... there are cases whereby..... some unique/
> extenuating circumstance may result in the other M
> odes outperforming; but...… this is the exception.
> ..….. and not the norm.

Tom,many thanks for your insight,i had changed over to Park1 earlier today as i am out on saxon site which has produced some rather spectacular saxon silver coinage,so as the weather is still decent and the crops have not been sown yet am still able to keep detecting this one small particular area.

Once again many thanks for your input !!

J & D = You're welcome. For many...…. it will be a 'lightbulb going "on"'.

PART-1

This particular thread appears to be the least 'battled' …. so I shall post a few EQX MUU-2 data here. The new EQX upgrade (MUU-2) makes the EQX a 3rd Generation EQX.
1. Original EQX
2. EQX with MUU-1
3. EQX with MUU-2
I'm not seeing enough data advertised/on social media..... or otherwise...………….. about this update. Soooooooo……….. let me impart/convey: Target Recovery Response settings remain exactly the same. Press (and hold) TRR and TRR becomes 'underlined'. You now enter into FE Mode/Option. IT TOO.... remains exactly the same. You can test FE 0-9 settings head-to-head..... with a non-upgraded EQX...…. to verify it is exactly the same. Now press the accept/reject button. You will see the EQX now flip over to the new F2 Mode. This is where 'new life' begins.

Part-2

Let's get into the nuts/bolts of F2. . . . . . and with the shortest words/wordings possible. F2 = 7, 8 & 9 are VERY aggressive for making steel bottlecaps ID as 'iron' ….. and this function is highly successful. . . . . . . except for the most shiny, brand-new, non-oxidized steel bottlecaps. Please understand: steel bottlecaps are 'round' …. so they want to ID as non-ferrous. Please understand: steel bottlecaps are NON-ferrous coated (zinc, nickel, sometimes even copper coated)…. and metal detector eddy-currents travel on the outer skin of the object..... soooooooo ….. a detector WANTS to ID the bottlecap as a 'non-ferrous' object. ALL Mfr's struggle with this. Principles/laws of physics rule! F2 = 7, 8, and especially 9 are VERY aggressive..... BUT...… at a cost. You now can open doors and hunt sites that were previously unhuntable…. due to excessive steel bottlecap litter. At the cost of: much reduced ability to 'unmask'. This is a trade-off. This is reality. You cannot have both (yet). (((We are looking at double-stacked/dual-core electronic options))). FE '9' is equivalent to F2 '6'.

Part 3

New life. New chapter.

FE '0' = F2 '4'
But...…. this is to say:
F2 '3' would be equivalent to FE -1/4
F2 '2' would be equivalent to FE -2/4 (negative 1/2)
F2 '1' would be equivalent to FE -3/4
F2 '0' would be equivalent to FE -4/4 (negative 1)
You have to have a 'vision' (…… a dream..... a concept)……… in order to launch. You must have the end-in-mind..... in order to begin. Here is the thought-process (my rationale)…. for what I did. FE '0' is a fairly aggressive 'unmasker'. Probably about the maximum.... that most normal folks could handle. FE '0' is a fairly steep learning-curve; yet, can be mastered..... to the point that it becomes YOUR 'new norm'...… even considering the size of the coil (11" standard.... by no accident). Sooooooooo. I was certain that introducing/inducing a FE -1, -2, -3, and -4 would be excessively overboard (with a audible disaster of falsing in iron); hence, the rationale was to have a reduced-scaling decremented linear graduation.... that would be more GP-masses acceptable. . . . . . but..... yes..... only to the experienced EQX users..... especially the experienced EQX FE '0' users.
Because life is short..... RAPIDLY expediting (and enhancing) your learning-curve is paramount. Do not overspeed the human brain..... or you will fail the new technological enhancement...… ultimately; failing yourself. IF you feel you are a experienced FE '0' user..... and have mastered FE '0'..... THEN proceed to F2 '2'. Don't go any further.... or you will fatigue-out.... and in short order.
F2 '0' (which is equiv to FE '-1') is where (ultimately) your new EQX life will begin. Unmasking in carpets of nails..... is now enhanced by approx. 2%. This may not be much; yet, if you have found... say..... 400 key era implements in a particular spot.... the 2% enhancement will afford you another 8 items. Iron will 'false' a bit more. But...… (here will be your learning-curve)…… the increased falses are MUCH more audibly intelligible as a 'false'. You will see. You will learn. You will understand exactly why I say this. The EQX audio will teach you. It is auto-intuitive.
I knew with this new F2 '0' intent-to-implementation.... that there was a additive side-benefit (which was primary....to me). I was not intelligent enough to impart/convey my 'gut' (and my thoughts) to the rest of the team at ML.... so I had to "force to success" this conceptual notion. 'Gut'..... has now come to fruition. In a nutshell: place F2 on '0' and go back to your EQX-pounded coin hunting sites.... and see what happens. Your best ratio of results will come from high trashy sites.... with both a mix of ferrous and (preferably) non-ferrous trash. You will see/witness finding more tilted coins. It will generate the (correct) epiphany that most coins are tilted. . . . . . . via exposing you to: "you don't know..... what you don't know"...…. by showing you more tilted flat objects. Previously.... these tilted coins may have ID'd as 15-17. Now.... they tend/want to ID as 18-20 (Indian Head penny ID's). There's very little 'negative' side-effects to F2 '0'...… except for the rapid learning-curve of a different type/amount of falsing. Still...… DO initiate your learning-curve with F2 on '2'....…. until you get use to this. THEN you can jump to F2 '0'. Do not (unsuspectingly) fatigue yourself out...… prematurely.

Tom D.... If FE 0 = F2 4 on the 800, what is F2 2 equivalent to (FE) on the 600? Do the negative 1/4 increments mentioned proceed up the positive axis too, e.g. positive 1/4, etc.? Thank you for your efforts and input.

Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2019 05:23PM by DiggaMke.

Thanks Tom for all the info and your contributions to the Equinox!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully others outside of this forum pick up on what you've said, because they don't know what they're in for if they go straight to running F2-0 from the get go.

Must be more to the upgrade than just F2-4 being equal to FE-0 because at F2-4 I can knock out the rusty bottle caps I have at home. At FE-0 they come in at a solid 15 when centered over them. Other iron objects are also being knocked out that weren't before without really cranking up the iron bias in FE mode.

I'm going to have to continue to experiment in my mineralized soil though as it's really playing havoc with depth in F2 mode at any setting, might need to bump up the recovery speed more to compensate or something.

Great info Tom. If it ever rains here I'll try to train my brain.

Why in the world Tom would they recommend FE2 at 6 for beach hunting? It might knock out a few of those bottle caps but surely you will loose more of those weak signals with non-ferr changing to ferr. FE at 2 seemed to do well for me.... and testing 2 seemed to be about the same sounding as FE2 4 as you recommended WITH more info to me to easily ID bottle caps. It did seem to move more of those pesty false iron out of the low digits

I find this discussion very interesting; for this reason... I am someone who has ALWAYS run my EQX at FE 2, since day 1 (my other settings are Park 1, 50 tones, recovery 4, sensitivity as high as possible based on EMI, auto GB ). So, FE 2 is what I have become intuitively used to. Recently though, due to all the discussion here, I have moved to FE 0, and I DO notice a difference; I'm only 2 hunts in, using FE 0, but I am definitely digging more deep, rusty/bent nails that exceed my "it COULD be something good, you might want to dig this one" mental threshold. My "mental threshold," in other words, has become a bit less "trustworthy" than it used to be, as I think most of these nails I am now digging, are targets that would NOT have exceeded my "go ahead and dig it" threshold, if I were still using FE 2.

SO, I guess my question is (for NASA-Tom) -- based on the info you have presented here about the F2 settings, it would seem that as I continue trying to "get used to" the "new feel" of the falsing iron in switching from FE 2 to FE 0, it would be six of one and half dozen of the other, whether I remain in FE 0, or move to F2 4? In other words, at this point, while I am trying to learn "FE 0," am I correct in deducing that there is no benefit to me switching yet to F2 4, as they are essentially equivalent modes (FE 0 and F2 4)? And then, once I become intuitively comfortable with FE 0, then I can move over to F2 2, and go through the process all over again (my "mental threshold" getting thrown off, and having to "re-adjust?")

Thanks!

Steve



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2019 02:55AM by steveg.

Mike...…. the EQX-600 software should have come out as the following:
FE 0 = F2 '1'
FE -1 = F2 '0'
Less finite adjustments on the 600.

Dew...… F2 '6' recommended setting for beach hunters...… is for the novice!

Steve...…. correct. And...… I do strongly recommend the continuation of the learning-curve with FE '0'...… before doing anything else. You will get to the point (and it has to do with body-rotation around target)…. whereby...… you will become familiar with deep iron tell-tale audio intel.

NASA-Tom -- thanks for your reply. Rotation around any "suspected" good target is thankfully already a natural (highly important) part of my "interrogation" process, and so I'll continue to work to focus/concentrate on learning the audio "tells" as I rotate, at my newly reduced FE bias level (with an eye toward eventually moving to the next step, at F2 2).

Thanks!

Steve

Tom I appreciate your quest for perfection and take your word that there are gains to be made with this new mode. But is it really worth the time ML spent on the software update for the small incremental gain?

I would have preferred they spent the budget to produce a coil in the 9" range. That in itself would trump this IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2019 09:29AM by Jackpine.

Tom...…… the steel bottlecap 'reinventing-the-wheel' issue.... was no small feat. And this technological advancement...… will follow...into all new/future inventions.

Because of "how well" the EQX performs in trashy sites...…….. considering the huge 11" coil...…….. was my 'trigger' to push the envelope even further with the 'below-zero' (electronically)…… newer/better unmasking foray/intent.....that F2 (now) affords.
This 11" coil.... is a very "wide-angle" coil. If...…...say...……. a coin is tilted: the large coil will see the edge of the coin, the front side of the coin...… and the back side of the coin. Not only does this present a STRONGER signal to process..... it also allows for a more accurate phase-shift ID of the target.
A smaller coil can primarily see (nearly) ….only the edge of the coin (and maybe a small amount of one of the faces of the coin). This generates a weak signal...……...and...……. a lower/worse ID; subsequently...….resulting in a 'missed' AND mis-ID'd target.

Collectively...…. there are Geophysics and physics lessons tuitionally to be gained (read = realized). A good example (and real-world test)….. is to find a bunch of targets …. in a trashy area.... with the 6" EQX coil. Then find a bunch of targets with the stock 11" coil..... in the same area.
Now...………… swap coils...….. and see:

"what"
specifically "which"
"how well"
and what "ID"

is ascertained on each individual target that the OTHER coil found. SO much can be learned from this test. The expected:
1. Small coil can 'see between' the trash …. better than big coil.
2. Big coil can go deeper than small coil.
3. Big coil covers more ground.

The UNexpected:
1. Big coil ID'd small coils finds..... better! …. in more-cases-than-not.
2. Big coil found fairly shallow targets.... that the small coil can not even see/detect...… even though the target is still well within detectable range of the small coil.

Yes...… there will be a few targets that only the small coil will see; yet, the paradox (into epiphany)…… is that the large coil (ultimately)….did better than expectations (laws of physics)…………. and..... in a trashy site (Geophysics principle).

Tom D... if the 11 inch coil has impressed with this new update, how would the 15 inch coil perform, seeing the bigger coil ID'd targets better?

Mike