OK...

I have read ALL of both "compilation" posts, the "rcpt ack" post, read the manual twice, and have at least some level of experience on my earlier, lower-end First Texas (BH) machines. Having said that, my first trip out today with my F70? BRAIN OVERLOAD! I now see what Mr. Dankowski meant in places on the forum where he alluded to "too much info, too quick, for the human brain to process." We are talking rapid-fire machine gun here. I was at a trash-filled 100-year old park I have hunted several times before with my BH machines. Went to a spot that produced many coins in the past, under a huge shade tree. Set it up, ground balanced in the low 70s, and tried sens. around 80, dE speed, thresh +3, disc 5, 4H tones, and the stock 10" elliptical concentric. Did my best to "try" to find the "best" frequency, but no idea if I actually pulled it off. Will need practice on that. Anyway, my settings seemed moderate, to me...until I put the coil over the ground and moved it, that is. I IMMEDIATLY got BARRAGED on EVERY sweep. In 4H tones, I had multiple pitches from jumpy, trashy signals, every single half sweep. We are talking like a half dozen various-pitch tones with every swing of the coil. Now, mind you, I'm not complaining per se. I think there really were all those trash targets in the ground. I'm just not used to HEARING them (I didn't on the BH machines, to anywhere even CLOSE to this degree). The good news is, I did a completely non-ideal situation air test in my bedroom last night, and in disc mode with sens. and thresh up fairly high, I found the barely-getting-a-tone, edge of its range distance on a clad quarter at just over 14", 13" on a nickel, and between 11" and 12" on a dime. I was very pleasantly surprised; pretty amazed actually. But, that translated into a way-too-sensitive, way-too-hot machine for a first-time user in a trash-filled, mid-city park.

Before long, I cooled/dumbed the machine all the way down to 50 sens. -3 thresh, 21 disc. and even took it out of 4H tones; tried 3 tone, even went to autotune all metal just to give my brain a rest from the tone overload. In this "way reduced" mode, and focusing ONLY on the best signals that repeated in all 4 directions, with very steady TID and high levels on the confidence meter, I was able to dig a few coins in a short period of time. But all these grand ideas about how I was gonna try to find the TIDs of 12 or 13 in monotone mode which could be partially masked, up-averaged coins next to iron, blah, blah -- YEAH RIGHT! Pipe dream! I felt like a peewee football player stepping into the middle of an NFL game! My mind was frazzled due to overload within 15 minutes!

I found quickly that my grasp on sens., thresh., and disc., and how to optimize these to get a fairly quiet and stable but still-sensitive machine in a trashy situation was WAAAY lacking. I thought I had read enough to at least TRY to pull it off. Not even close. I think I could have set thresh. to -9 and sens. to 20 and STILL been overloaded with information from bits of trash in the ground. Can anyone chime in here and offer some tips (besides staying out of the trash until I learn how to use the thing a little bit )? I think this machine is really going to be a keeper, once I learn how to use it. Plenty of sensitivity -- seems really hot, but how do you take advantage of that without losing your mind?!

Thanks for your patience,

Steve

Steve...........try Sens of '70'......Disc '6' and 4-tone (not 4H). Find the best EMI mitigating freq.........and also Grnd Bal the unit. This is quite 'hot' still.........yet...... ONLY dig the top two tones. Do NOT try to 'unmask' targets (yet). After a couple sets of batteries......then....you may feel like boosting settings.......and maybe 'unmasking' some difficult targets. For now.........just 'cherry pick'. This is a (needed) confidence builder.

Now........................if you were hunting a iron infested relic site......with no modern trash......and the intent was to recover ALL non-ferrous targets.......THEN...and ONLY then.......would the 'extreme-effort' (maximum unmasking) intent prevail. You are not there (yet). DON'T OVERLOAD....PREMATURELY BURN OUT.......and drop out of the hobby. We don't want to lose you......and furthermore.......WANT you to see just exactly WHY this hobby can become a burning passion....for a multiplicity of reasonings/justifications.

Mr. Dankowski --

Thanks for the kind words! It was overwhelming, that's for sure. But, you know what, I'm thinking about what you said, 4 tone, NOT 4H, and I'm thinking that really makes sense. I noticed that when I dropped out of 4H tone just before I had to quit for the day, it DID become a bit easier. My thinking watching the TIDs was that alot of the "bouncing of pitch" I was hearing was often the 20-ish TIDS bouncing around up to the 30s (mostly trash tabs and stuff) -- and thus, due to the "H" issue in the 4H tones, jumping quickly from high to low pitch tones, repeatedly. You suggesting to keep out of 4H at this point confirms that. I will try just what you said; sens 70, disc 6, 4-tone.

I will also go back and re-read how to select the best freq. Can you remind me, though, on the F70 -- it's different than the 75 in that there are NOT disc ranges 0-5, 6-19, 20+, where the machine is more or less "sensitive," correct? That's a T2/F75 characteristic only?

By the way, I can appreciate what you say about the passion; I have had a real interest since I was a kid and toyed around with my grandfather's old White's coinmaster; but days like today ARE frustrating! I remember being there several years ago when I finally purchased my first (BH) machine. Took me several trips out before I even found my first penny. Pull tabs and screw caps about did me in! It did become, obviously, much easier, but the jump from a BH machine to this hyper-sensitive F70 is indeed overwhelming and seems like I'm starting all over again, clueless! It's really that big of a change, and I wasn't expecting that. A "confidence boost" with this machine is indeed what I need at this point. I do need to quiet the detector down a bit and cherry-pick, as you advise. Thanks for the tips on settings; I guess I will better understand the implications of how to determine proper settings for a given location on down the road...after maybe one or two more posts to this forum...

Steve

Steve,

I hope that this will give you a “warm and fuzzy” feeling about the F70.

I have had mine since the middle of December and will admit that it is quite a handful at times to get it tweaked in trashy areas. I am figuring another good 50 hours of use before I get a good handle on it.

On the positive side though, I have so far found in the range of about 50+ coins, including one 1935 Dime, 1 shield nickel, 2 silver “war” nickels and small handful of wheaties. At one site that I had worked before (with little luck with my other detector) I pulled out 29 coins in 45 minutes and dug a minimum of trash.

I have also found 1 Eagle button, 1 Mississippi Infantry button (my first), 1 SC button, 1 Confederate “flower” button, about 10 musket and minie balls and handful of other related sort of War Between the States relics. All in very trashy locations.

Wow, groundscanner. And you don't even have it learned yet (per your words?) That is really encouraging -- especially good to hear you also say that you find it to be "a handful" at times, in the trash. Once you do "get a handle" on tweaking it in the trash, anything you could post to explain what you are doing would be much appreciated. I'm gonna run for a while with "cherry pick" settings like Mr. Dankowski suggested and try to get it quieted down a bit. Sounds like you have done a TERRIFIC job with yours. My earlier machines (being shallow) and I became fairly good at finding clad, but the good stuff has thus far eluded me for the most part. Sounds like you and your F70 are having some real fun!

Steve

With the F70 ground balanced to my ground which is 69-70 and one bar showing on the FE3O4 meter I can detect a .58 cal minie at 10" with settings of 40 sens.,3 threshold, 11 disc using the 11" DD coil. If you have to turn the sens. down to calm it some do not worry about depth just take your time and learn what it is telling you.

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

Tommy --

Thanks much for that input. I was hesitant to turn the sens. down TOO far; it's dumb, but my reasoning was that "I just got rid of a lesser detector as I was not pleased with the depth it gave; last thing I want to do is de-tune this one way down -- the extra depth/sens. is what I spent the money on the upgrade for!" But brain overload from the tone barrage was not helpful, either! You are right, and your use of 40 sens. and still getting nice depth on lead is encouraging. I'm gonna start with Mr. Dankowski's settings, and then not feel uneasy about turning sens. down even further, if necessary.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Steve

I find if there is a lot of targets and you are hunting in either 3 or 4 tones just slow your sweep down so you can try and seperate each tone as you sweep over them. The depth will follow as you get some time behind the wheel.

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

interesting take on it, southernexplorer. I didn't want to "slow it down," as the manual talks about a fast sweep being best for IDing the target, and I was concerned that slowing it down might give me MORE jumpy tones/TIDs. But, sounds like it works for you so I will try that tip. Good stuff!

Thanks!

Steve

I was very used to the Explorer sweep speed (very slow) when I started learning the "F" Series detectors and it took me a while to adjust to the faster sweep but I find myself still going slower than most others. If I get that high tone I will isolate it and sweep small sweeps over it kinda fast to help get an ID on the target. I find when the targets are plentiful my brain cannot keep up with the "F" series detectors so I have to slow down. Eventually you will find what works for you the best but I do recommend a test garden to learn what the deeper targets sound like. Just be sure and clean the dirt really good before putting it back in the hole. Tom has as DVD that shows how to make a test garden.

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

Steve,

I was already used to a somewhat noisy detector prior to getting the new F70. I mostly relic hunt and have been using the Tesoro Tejon as my primary unit with a Cortes as my backup. I replaced the Cortes with the new F70 and passed on the Cortes to my son. I now have relegated the Tejon to the backup detector (running it with the 5" coil for extremely trashing areas).

I have almost always cranked up the sensitivity to nearly max on the Tejon and it could be quite "chatty" in trashy areas, but I could tell by the quality of the tone whether it was junk or a goodie. Only in extremely nail infested sites would I turn the sensitivity down and slow down my sweep speed.

I intentionally hunted a very trashing old house site a couple of weeks ago with the F70. Absolutely full of iron! The route that I took on this site was to reduced the sensitivity down a little, but gained control of the noise by running the threshold down until the noise was at a manageable level. I then shortened and slowed my sweep down and cherry picked between the trashy signals. I was then able to pull out a wheatie in short order. The next time out I am going to try a higher threshold and lower sensitivity and see what happens.

I also reduce the number of tones down to 1 or 2 tones in the real trashy areas and then listen for the nice "clean" signals and then check the TID for conformation and then dig.


Michael

"Too much ground to cover and too little time!" :-)

If I remember correctly..........the F70 and F75 are identical....up-to......and including a performance boost....when the Disc is dropped to '4' (and below). BUT........at the cost of instability/EMI......if atmospherically present. The F70 has better depth performance (in general)...than the Bounty Hunter(s)......even when the Sens on the F70 is on '60'.

You have NO idea......as to the level of importance (due to confidence instillment)......of finding your first few 'good' finds.....at the onset/beginning usage of a new metal detector. If the detector is initially over-driven (beyond current brain comprehension.....(((varies from person-to-person))) )......AND......no good finds.....upon initial/maiden voyage(s).......it is ALL TOO easy to drop off-line.

southernexplorer --

Thanks for the additional info! Can you pass on the name of the video you refer to?

groundscanner --

What you bring up hits at one of the things I am still not sure about. You say you ran sens. down only a little, but thresh. down alot to quiet the machine a bit. You say next time, you are going to try a higher thresh. but running sens. down more to gain the more quiet machine. But that's the part I have been struggling to understand. What are the implications of those adjustments? Which is "better?" Low sens high thresh, or low thresh high sens? What effect do the adjustments have? This is what I want to understand -- and then you add the disc. in there which also can affect the "noisiness" of the detector. Sounds like you are going to "experiment," and I will do the same. I just would love to understand in advance what the IMPLICATIONS are of making the various adjustments w.r.t. changes in machine performance.

Mr. Dankowski --

Gotcha on the F70 and F75 "performance boost" below 5 disc. And yes, I found 50% more depth, air test, with the F70 vs. my prior top-of-the line BH machine. And, I hear you about needing to "build confidence" with a new machine vs. having it in "overdrive" from the get-go and then frying the brain to the point of frustration with the machine and/or the hobby. You stressed this hard, and I will take your advice for sure.

I appreciate all the ongoing comments and information, guys! So helpful!

Steve

I am not sure which video has the test garden on it butmaybe he will chime in on that question or maybe somebody else. I did purchase the relic and beach hunting set and it is a great set to watch with some very interesting info.

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

Steve, you've obviously gotten some great advice in this thread already and hopefully I'll add a little more for your consideration. The keys here are the situation where you're trying to learn your detector and hunting in general in apparently a very tough environment. I'll use the following analogy to help see things for what they are and I suspect most guys will be able to relate to this. Imagine (or just remember when) you're a young man that just recently had his 21st birthday so you walk into a drinking establishment with a few obvious quests in mind. One is to legally consume and the other doesn't take much imagination. The place is just absolutely packed with various degrees of hot ladies, some with a bunch of friends, some with just one friend, and a few just on their own. Where to start let alone how to pull this off "successfully"? Many guys new to this situation will be basically overwhelmed with the possibilities, wind up spinning their wheels running around like a chicken with their head cut off with no real direction and ultimately accomplish little to nothing other than a horrendous headache the next day. The missed opportunity was to be more specific around what you are realistically able to "find" in this target rich environment with the least potential difficulty. It would have probably served you well, given what you're bringing to the fray, to ignore the "gold" targets and or those that were surrounded by dozens of distractions. So tying this back into your detecting situation, a way that you could narrow the field of possibilities besides the not using 4H, lowering sensitivity, and slightly raising discrimination, is to consider using some notching for a while.(GASP!!) This will enable you to hear even less distractions and concentrate more on targets that have signatures of just a few of the total possibilities you are actually after in general and while doing so, not waste as much time and aural energy yet yielding some successes. Those successes will help develop confidence and enthusiasm as Tom already alluded to. Learn to walk using smaller steps before you run. Then when you're really ready to try and run some, go at it using less or no notching, higher AND lower gain settings, (NEVER underestimate or ignore what very low gain can do in heavy trash) and start developing your ability to decipher masked or on edge good stuff. Be patient, take your time, and enjoy some good ol’ quality “on the job training”! Good luck and have some fun!

BuckeyeBrad --

Thanks for your advice, and I enjoyed your "analogy" situation! But it makes sense. And you are right, I didn't even think about the fact that "notch" would help cut down even more of the noise. DUH! I was so frazzled within a short time that my brain wouldn't even work, obviously. Anyway, you basically echoed Mr. Dankowski in that I need to gain some confidence in the machine and have fun, not have info/brain overload. I read an article by Mr. Dankowski last night that was included within the Fisher literature that came with the detector. He described the problem I was having perfectly. WIthin the article, discussing the use of monotone vs. multitone, he said...

"IMAGINE sweeping the coil in an iron nail pit with 2 or 3 or especially 4 tones selected. A hillbilly jug band!!! Try and make non-fatigued intelligent audio decisions under this common scenario! The VDI is extremely jumpy in iron pits AND SO WOULD BE THE MULTI-TONES!!!"

That pretty much sums it up -- that was my experience exactly! (Hillbilly jug band -- great one!) Anyway, all of this advice from everyone has led me to, on my next hunt...

1. A less junk-filled, fewer-target site;

2. Sens. 70 (or lower if necessary), disc. 6 (or more if necessary), 4-tone (or fewer) instead of 4H, proper frequency for the site, higher disc and NOTCH if necessary, careful ground balance;

3. Slower sweep if too many signals in a given sweep;

Once I get some confidence and learn to have fun with this machine, I will try eliminating notch and lowering disc, and digging "everything" to learn even more about the machine. I feel much better after reading all the advice and info, and I can't wait until the snow melts and I can get back out and start putting some of this info into action and learning this machine!

Steve

I am concerned about using 'notch'......as this induces ghost-signals (targets that ID one conductivity in the ground.....then......when dug.....in the excavated pile of dirt......tilt/orient in a position in such a way that.....is NOW in the 'notch' window; subsequently, you will chase ghost-signals).

The test-garden section is in the Real World Coin and Relic Hunting DVD.

I still recommend 4-tone.....and dig the top two tones.

I would hope he has and uses a pinpointer to address that.

Mr. Dankowski --

Thanks. I now know what DVD I'll be buying...

FWIW, the one time I had the machine out so far (before our most recent snow disabled the "learning process,") it seemed natural to me to check the dirt in the pile with "pinpoint" mode; don't know why, but that's what I found myself doing, and, yes, I do have a pinpointer...

I will do 4-tone.

Thx all!

Steve