What makes a great machine?

You! That's the answer. I watched a video with a guy(who may be a dealer) use the Mx Sport in a field from the 1950's(I am not going to post the link because I have been way to critical as of late). He found a silver dime, but he was relying solely on the machine to "cherry pick", where his skill would of allowed him to find it much sooner(in fact, I hope most are like him, he missed a lot of good targets). With these new machines coming out and everyone scrambling to get the best so they can improve their finds, however, several factors can increase your chances in succeeding(im not going to go into much detail):

1. First and foremost is experience with ANY machine. being able to predict what the machine is doing is a huge part of success. There are some universal attributes that each machine has and you can "carry over" that experience from each machine.

2. Understanding how the mechanics of a VLF machine work. By understanding what's going on under the coil, it gives you another huge advantage.

3. Getting uncomfortable. So, you think you learned all you can from your machine? How much iron have you dug...on purpose? How often do you dig iffy's? How about the settings? Have you tried a lot or no discrimination? How about air testing with multiple targets in your hand to see the VDI readings? How about running the machine on ultra low sensitivity? how about a slightly positive or negative ground balance? Sweep faster, slower? Did you subject your machine to an EMI filled location to see how it will react(Thanks Tom LOL)?

There is nothing like that "new machine" feeling. It gives you hope. I see a lot of hunters that buy a new machine, try it, then sell it. You can avoid that. Just understand, what is going on, and what you are doing.

4.... Luck, walk over a Saxon hoard with an Ace250 and that makes for a great machine.

Some things I think contribute to a great machine.

Menu layout easy to use and understand.
Lighter weight-- not necessarily the lightest
Good coil ears
Good depth-- and if good separation can be had with same detector a plus
Good audio-- audio that indeed gives huge clues to how worthy a target can/ should be
Rolling audio-- not the longer drawn tone- beep
A good Ground Balance system-- and where GB procedure is simple
Easy on power source
Able to have minute discrimination adjustment-- digital preferred
Good ID at depth
Adjustable tx power out allowable
Automatic channel selection for emi mitigation, or at the very least a way where the detector thru electronic means gives the op the cleanest channel
A good visual screen--- with few gimmick icons, etc
A balanced detector-- would be nice where Balance point could be altered to accommodate larger and smaller coil(s)
Have an external USB port for possible updates or a way to correct potential glitches
A standard 5 year warranty at least to original purchaser
A nice detector case--- much like what was supplied with Nokta Core pro pack unit

What makes a great machine to me is a machine that I REQUIRE..

Nothing flashy nothing complex something that works ..but works in the way I NEED it to work..

I look at machines as tools and I don't use a phillips head driver to unscrew a slotted screw...

If a person seriously KNOWS what the NEED they can begin to seek out units that match their REQUIREMENTS...

BUT till you know what you need sometimes it's a long and winding road.. Took me the a decade of hard hunting to even Know what I wanted to seek out in terms of NEEDS in a detector design..

Took another 15 years looking trying testing and banging head on wall and as the last decade the machines I've wanted have arrived and getting better every year..

I'm in my 38th year of hunting and I learn more every month....I know more right now than I did 6 months ago of my needs..Its a never ending learning experience ..But you need equipment that works with you not against you..

I see it all the time people buy a machine that's HOT at the moment yet it's not the TOOL they need...

If you're not a relic hunter per se but a die hard coin hunter in the yards and parks and constructions sites don't buy a DEUS and expect to be over thrilled...use same money and Buy a CTX you'll be enamored..and Vice a versa..( just for illustrative purposes only)


KISS comes to mind on equipment though...Just raw performance don't need a detector that comes with a slide rule...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

One of the most simplest machines what is the Vista Mini found me the best find to date... Henry VIII crown of the double rose gold coin.

As Keith said nothing complex.

A machine that is tuned to be super fast with just tone break and disc also sensitivity control ( sensitivity control not 100% needed as most machines punch 6 inches with minimal sensitivity these days) with either tracking or preset ground balance to ferrite in a package like the Excalibur... VDI optional.

Something able to punch max of six inches tops.

If a machine can crack the speed of the Deus when in full tones and zero disc on reactivity of 5 then your looking at a blistering machine.

Take a look at the GM1+..... Simple machine but bags of performance and dirt cheap to buy.

So many finds around iron contamination speed is key for me.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You! That's the answer. I watched a video with a
> guy(who may be a dealer) use the Mx Sport in a
> field from the 1950's(I am not going to post the
> link because I have been way to critical as of
> late). He found a silver dime, but he was relying
> solely on the machine to "cherry pick", where his
> skill would of allowed him to find it much
> sooner(in fact, I hope most are like him, he
> missed a lot of good targets). With these new
> machines coming out and everyone scrambling to get
> the best so they can improve their finds, however,
> several factors can increase your chances in
> succeeding(im not going to go into much detail):
>
> 1. First and foremost is experience with ANY
> machine. being able to predict what the machine is
> doing is a huge part of success. There are some
> universal attributes that each machine has and you
> can "carry over" that experience from each
> machine.
>
> 2. Understanding how the mechanics of a VLF
> machine work. By understanding what's going on
> under the coil, it gives you another huge
> advantage.
>
> 3. Getting uncomfortable. So, you think you
> learned all you can from your machine? How much
> iron have you dug...on purpose? How often do you
> dig iffy's? How about the settings? Have you tried
> a lot or no discrimination? How about air testing
> with multiple targets in your hand to see the VDI
> readings? How about running the machine on ultra
> low sensitivity? how about a slightly positive or
> negative ground balance? Sweep faster, slower? Did
> you subject your machine to an EMI filled location
> to see how it will react(Thanks Tom LOL)?
>
> There is nothing like that "new machine" feeling.
> It gives you hope. I see a lot of hunters that buy
> a new machine, try it, then sell it. You can avoid
> that. Just understand, what is going on, and what
> you are doing.


I think what Bey is trying to point out is that someone can do VERY well with THEIR machine,basically no matter what it is,as long as the operator and machine have "become one". And by "become one" I don't mean you know what a quarter at 3" sounds like....rather,you have investigated every nook and cranny of it,what it does in certain situations,why it does it,how predictable it is,what it doesn't excel at,what it does,etc. I think I know my wife pretty well,and after 16 years I probably should. After years with a machine it should be no different really,and I think the point is that not enough people "know their wives" all that well. It could be for various reasons,but if you're a rabid hunter that gets out a lot then it all eventually comes into view,whether you like it or not. You'll find faults and strong points,which is good because you KNOW. With an unfamiliar machine you just won't have those intangibles in hand to use,rather they have to be experienced,and that comes with time. Nothing else will or can suffice.
I think his thread title was meant to grab attention,but wasn't literally much about any certain machine or its attributes....but about US.

To Me a Detector must have Tone I.D. Preferably 4 which for My style of Old Coin Hunting is Perfect to Cherry Pick with. And Second as some of You might have Guessed already is Modulated Audio Perferably Adjustable as Everyone's hearing is Different. That way I Can set it to give a Softer Tone on Coins past 6'' to stop Me in my Tracks when I hear that Deep Coin among shallower most likely newer clad or trash. Could I miss a shallow old coin? Maybe,But after I know a spot I can access the Deep Coin strata as Tom D. would say. And last Manuel Ground Balance. It doesn't have to Be a 10 Turn,But manuel just the same unless a Minelab as they do good without it.

IDX you nailed it. The title was rhetorical But you pegged it perfectly. The wife comparison was more than perfect. How many spouse's get bored with the other and look elsewhere? This was exactly where I was going. We too, can get bored of a machine and look elsewhere. Also, though, we can learn from getting a new machine as well but don't be surprised if that new machine, doesn't teach you anything new..

Ziggy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4.... Luck, walk over a Saxon hoard with an Ace250
> and that makes for a great machine.


believe it or not,this is "generally" true!
you can literally buy ANY detector,gain proficiency,
find great stuff with it,and then proclaim it to be the best!
this IS within the realm of possibility,and HAS happened to
many detectorists.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Valued thread.

I think all new machines should have a vco/tone control like the Tejon does,it's a blessing when your ears are shot.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

It may be that a machine becomes great when you've really learnt how to use it. So machines that are over-complex, or have quirky, esoteric functions that are controlled by vaguely-labelled knobs, tend to leave the operator baffled. You're unsure if you are using it correctly, never sure from one session to the next if it's "doing it's thing" properly, and so never make progress.
I often wonder about detectorists with a large arsenal of machines. Do they really know how to use them? Or are they unfamiliar with nearly all of them?
The expression: "Beware the man with one gun, for he surely knows how to use it" springs to mind.

What makes a great machine? One that is almost perfect at doing what it is good at and does not try to be everything you need for all conditions. When required, it's fine to sit out a hunt and let another machine step in. That's why I have 4 or 5 machines. What they are good at they can blow away most multi purpose machines made today.

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It may be that a machine becomes great when you've
> really learnt how to use it. So machines that are
> over-complex, or have quirky, esoteric functions
> that are controlled by vaguely-labelled knobs,
> tend to leave the operator baffled. You're unsure
> if you are using it correctly, never sure from one
> session to the next if it's "doing it's thing"
> properly, and so never make progress.
> I often wonder about detectorists with a large
> arsenal of machines. Do they really know how to
> use them? Or are they unfamiliar with nearly all
> of them?
> The expression: "Beware the man with one gun, for
> he surely knows how to use it" springs to mind.

I agree with above as have 4 Detectors and 3 of the 4 Have been using on and off fore about 12-14 Years or so. The 4th one the XL-PRO have only had about 2 Years and mostly used with Bigfoot coil as clad stabber/Jewelry Hunter. I never used it enough to know the Needle twitch's and bounce's like some long time Relic Hunters on the Forum. But My other 3 I know like the Back of My hand. Maybe I'm gettin' Old, But I don't feel like puttin' the Time in to learn a New Detector as what I got work good at what I do.

When I become one with the machine (which happens occasionally) and extract the maximum (in difficult areas), then I may consider it as great. But it is only a temporary feeling that depends on many factors. My $100 GC-1023 can be great, as can be a Deus. It is a combination between the right place, the right time and mindset.
I'm still looking for the perfect machine...

Knowing WHAT a detector should have to make it work well for you and the hunting needs you encounter at different types of sites.

Knowing HOW to use the detector's controls in a purposeful way so as to get the best performance out of the detector.

Knowing WHICH size and type search coil, mounted to a specific detector model, will assist in achieving the best possible results based upon the search location conditions.

Knowing SWEEP SPEED LIMITS or REQUIREMENTS for maximum performance and efficiency based upon the search coil used, the specific make/model detector used, and the control settings used.

Figuring out WHAT TYPE of detecting you are SERIOUS about doing, be it Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Gold Nugget Hunting, Relic Hunting and learning how to get all the best performance from a detector in use with the best coil for what you are trying to accomplish because the detector and coil are of little value if the other half of the 'detecting team' isn't performing as it should.

Finally, realizing that while there are quite a few decent "multi-purpose" detector models out there to choose from, some might have strengths over others, even from the same manufacturer, and it would be best to make sure you don't try to accomplish a lot of hunting over a variety of ground mineral types, and deal with many changing site environments or conditions such as dense trash, iron trash, rocky, grassy or sandy soils, etc. with only one detector. I believe any savvy hobbyists, and certainly avid detectorists, ought to have at least two (2) detectors in their arsenal to complement each other .... and as many as they feel might provide them a good selection to handle their needs.

Monte

What makes a great machine?
A company that listens.......

Kenny
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