Why does my Shadow X-5 find deeper silver

than any of my other lower or high KHZ machine's...

Just don't make sense .....Guess freq is not everything.....

To be honest the 19KHZ X-5 will dig Silver ( Any size) coin's deeeeep in my dirt....I just dug a Barber dime a couple day's ago at it was every bit of 11 inches..( with plenty of volume left)

I see it repeated a lot.. actually I don't hardly dig deep silver or any silver unless I am running the X-5 in these house site's ....I hunt the old house site's for civil war relic's so I am not really thinking silver money but it is a Silver coin killer...It just as hot on a eagle button as it is a dime or quarter?

Did Troy have something figured out on making it hot across the board?

I can airtest Nickles and Quarter's at the same depth and dig out of the ground at the same in ground depth's...

Just something I have all way's wondered about on the X-5

Keith

Kieth, have you done any comps with the Troy x5? I looked it up, it looks well built. I read it will air test a nickel at 17 inches, is that true?
Can you tell me all you know about it? I also see it lists for about $1000.

Keith, They did find a way to compensate somewhat for the "typical" lack of high conductor sensitivity using 19 khz as had been the case up to that point. It happened relatively late in the project and was incorporated shortly before production began. I'm not sure if this happened when Dave Johnson was still working on it or afterwards. Maybe he'll chime in with some more facts. I wasn't directly involved in any of the testing but this is what Troy told me at the time.

or a quarter or a minnie ball .............But it's an extra hot one number 26 with the Mod's .... belonged to Troy's hunting buddy back west... out of 5 I have had this one easily has 4-5 more inch's in air test ability...and I might add this is while being perfectly quite and stable in disc mode...

but yes all of them will get the 17 inch nickle airtest wise out of the one's I have had...and they are pretty much the same unit to unit..

Troy used excellent part's with tight tolerances like 1% military grade pot's and resistor's and such for the circuit so the first one should run like the 1000th one...they are weather proof also..

Has no visual I.D. but does have a coin check button for nickle's and zinc's....manual 10 turn G.B. freq shift... Black sand mode in all metal and beach mode in disc if you should need it..

basically the Black sand and Beach mode effect's the gain of the detector not the sensitivity control but the gain....helps in harsh mineral's an also in R.F. interference ....Has the most depth when disc is kept low just at nail disc...Has some real nice nuanced audio that once you tune your ear you can tell iron form non-iron target's ...

Will easily hold it's own with today's offering's for pure relic hunting and actually out do top of the line detector's if you get your ear trained right to listen through pop's and sputter's...It's a true Analog type detector that today's digital offering's have not got to yet they are getting close but not yet....I mean this audio wise...At-pro is as close as I have seen in getting a digital machine's audio to talk to you....But that's me...G-2 also has some nice audio but not like the At..

can be picked up now a days used for around 400-500 .....5 " coil is awesome ...Troy Pro phones really help the audio also...

They have alway's amazed me with there ultra depth and ability to sniff goodies out of iron......

People who say they are not deep or love iron or Etc... Etc...usually try to run them in a fashion different than what it was designed for....( it's made to hunt relics ) It's a purist's machine for relic retrieval and you need an understanding of what you are after before you begin.....In another way of explaining it it's not a machine for a casual hobbyist to get the most out of...

it's a shame Troy has not built something newer in the last few year's but maybe he will surprise us one day...

Give one a shot....there built like a tank and will last year's and year's and can be worked on if problem's occur either through Fisher Or Troy himself..

Keith

Now that you mention it seem's like I remember something about a boost circuit on the high conductor's... whatever he did it always amazes me at the deep silver it like's...and usually the silver is on edge....

Or maybe silver on edge become's a poor conductor at depth??


Thank's

Keith

Funny you mention the on edge dimes. That's a question I've had for a long time around the X-5. I could hear a flat dime really deep but put it on edge and it was starting to whisper at 5 to 6". Not always but a lot of time and in all fairness, that was way back before I had a feel, or anything that displayed, the ferrous minerals in that particular ground. The deepest penny/dime sized coin I've ever found was with the X-5. Too bad not enough folks appreciated the associated costs involved in the "no holds barred" approach that Troy took.

I saw you picked up the X5 on treasure depot for a good price, I was always interested in them. I still have a tough time believing that any VLF detector can airiest 17" on a nickel, and 21"? That seems crazy distance! Were you using a ruller or just eyeballing it?

If you could put up a video of this amazing achievement I would really something!!!!

Thanks Keith

I fully agree Keith. I still have my X3 and although I don't use it inland as much since I got the LTD, I still can't seem to get rid of it and find it unchallenged in the dry beach sand micro jewelry hunting (and the very occasional competition hunt). I use the Troy headphones with it as they are not only great with this unit, they are the most comfortable headphones I ever had. I will air test it again, but I do remember it being very very good on nickels (14" plus) when I first got it.

I met with two of the Troy Galloway engineers at Fisher Research Laboratory (in Los Banos, CA) many years ago ...... and a exceptional amount of engineering time went into this unit. It was built at the Fisher Lab plant.... with maximum quality of the era...that could be incorporated. Yes, it is a $1K unit......with no meter.....no audio ID.......BUT......the extra money (high cost) went into depth-engineering. Electronic timing analysis. ..... Yes, and good observation IRT High conductor silver sensitivity with this high frequency operating platform. This unit was near the top of the list for being 'underrated'.

I've had an X-2 and an X-5 for at least 5 years and have always done well. I found a buffalo nickel at aroiund 13 inches on salt water beach on Gulf Coast of Florida. X-5 is light weight and rain proof. In Florida the rainproof is indispensible. When I'm done hunting just rinse the sand and salt off at one of the beach showers. Excellent machine even without meter and tone ID. The descriminating toggle works good but I had to add one of those plastic sleeves used on screw ends. After hunting for a few hours the toggle starts to irritate the thumb!

The X-2 doesn't have the depth but is so light that it's a killer in competition hunts. I was hoping Troy would get his new machines out but it's been a while so not sure of their status, unless Tom has.

Wally .

Seems like Troy dropped off of the planet .....not too long ago.

....where do you go to get a Troy unit serviced?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2011 02:10AM by TerraDigger.

or you can send it to Fisher @ First Texas..........

I talked to Troy a couple of Month's ago and a buddy of mine talked to him last Friday and he is still say's he is working on a new machine...I would like to see a tone option incorporated into the X-5 for iron and non iron but be able to turn it off and on at will....leave the machine alone just add this feature ....even to day 10 year's later it really is the pinnacle of vlf non-I.D. technology..He could speed it up more on response but might suffer depth loss?...It unmask fine as is...New coil design's could be incorporated for a faster shut down?? but it being analog it blend's target's( ferrous/Non-ferrous) well so the audio can talk to you as good as a quick shutdown that does not blend... Does that make sense?

Build quality just cant get no better...actually all the switches and button's( they're there for a purpose) make it a true world class work horse of a machine...

I have had 5 of them since they came out and have alway's been overly pleased with the performance...price was never an issue on a new for me once you saw the quality and performance first hand.....I would call it the Volvo of metal detector's...

No fear's on using one if you are considering one... they can be fixed if the need be..

Keith

I remember the time I took it to one of my all time favorite sites. The place had been hit hard by other detectors and I got into an area that is ladden with iron and got a decent repeatable signal. I got down 4" and seen the reeded edge of a quarter staring straight up..... It was completely north/south on edge. Turned out to be a '75 CC quarter. I left that site that day with a merc a few IH's and a hard times token. I had only hunted that place 20 or 30 times before, AND taken several folks with me as well. That machine was a beast. I even found a newer style gold herring bone chain out in the middle of a woods, while searching for an old grove. The sensitivity was great. I sold it years ago for the next "latest and greatest".
Yes Keith, a tone option (especially w/o a loss of depth) would be killer

Question related to this quote from BuckeyeBrad above...

"They did find a way to compensate somewhat for the "typical" lack of high conductor sensitivity using 19 khz as had been the case up to that point. It happened relatively late in the project and was incorporated shortly before production began. I'm not sure if this happened when Dave Johnson was still working on it or afterwards."

Was just wondering if whatever this "some way to compensate" thing that BuckeyeBrad referred to (or, something similar to it), was incorporated by Mr. Johnson/Fisher into the Gold Bug Pro/SE/G2. Reason for asking is, I heard some comments about very early versions of the new Gold Bug (Cabela's version, v.1 I believe) being "bad on silver," but the commenters I refer to basically said "as would be expected with a 19 kHz machine." However, some "fix" happened in the SE and Pro (and presumably G2) -- I got this from the mouth of Felix at First Texas. Since that "fix," all feedback on these newer units that I have heard says that they are now actually REALLY good on silver. Is the "fix" that Felix mentioned in any way related to the topic of this thread? Will the newer Bugs/G2 do as nice a job on silver as I've heard anecdotally? Any ideas on the DEPTH of silver it will hit well? I am very intrigued, and trying to research, these units...

Steve

This is one area (due to: lack of comparison)......that I can not answer.

about if Dave Johnson incorporated it into the G2/GB platform...I seriously doubt it after using them...My honest opinion...

the design must be Troy's own design?

just my take from in field experience...

Keith

Do I read your post as to say that you weren't super thrilled with the GB/G2 performance on silver? This is good to know; I would really like to have a second, gold-oriented machine to take on an occasional prospecting trip (with a friend who prospects), but can't justify the cost of buying a detector that I would use literally only once every one or two years or so. Now, on the other hand, if the machines were good enough on silver to at least serve as a competent backup coin machine, then it would justify the cost for me to own one (as it could get used a bit more).

Steve

the Troy Shadow X-5 is God's favorite machine...........

Nice!

the "chinese" make the "volvo" now!..just sayin!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Are they going to re-name them to 'Cholvo's'?

Hey Steve the G-2/GB is a great multi purpose machine for sure ..and exceed's at low conductor hunting...I would say the high conductor silver is acceptable and does fine.. but I believe the Omega will offer more depth on Silver////

this is in my dirt...But the Omega will not gold hunt like the G-2 so .....

The G-2's strong point is gold and that show's ...It will do fine as a coin shooter but silver at depth ????

but as a gold machine that coin hunt also that is a great feature..

The first GB's had a problem with not being able to hear high conductor's...I believe I was the one who reported it... I had a video of it not hitting on silver dollar's....The internal Ground.Balance was set incorrectly....After they fixed it it would hit on high conductor's....but liked low conductor's better as to be expected from 19khz.....

What I was alluding to on the Troy unit was the X-5 likes silver extremely well and it is also on 19khz....but there must be some kind of amplification taking place?? And a simple airtest will tell you that t was not used in the G-2 platform...


The X-5 also like's larger iron but that is one of the reason's it will get the depth and sensitivity and unmasking ability's to all target's.....It handles minerals well and rejects nails well but does like bigger pieces of iron but It does what it was designed to do...Lot's of relic's are iron.....You also have to keep the disc at nail reject to get the ultimate depth/Sen's... it will drop off quick once you start to eliminate more trash...It's very touchy ...a hair either way and you will dig nail's or will not dig desirable masked target's ... have to set it up right on every hunt...

if a detector I.D.s items to well it leaves items behind for the next person willing to dig a little more....

As Brad said earlier it is a shame more people could not appreciate Troy's approach to detector design......When you build a machine to exact spec's with low variance component's that is designed to compete in a world class market you see what detector manufacturer's are capable of producing.....

Like Tom state's that people should be able to experience a detector performing to the best of it's abilities but that is not the case with mass production model's using higher variable component's ...This is where you get hot cold and in between unit's...Although on the newer machine's you see less variance in the digital platform's ...


Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2011 11:33PM by Keith Southern.

I still use the X5 Troy gave me back in 2003 when he and Linda came over to hunt with me for a week, and I still prefer it to my F75.

Check out my showcase of finds on the old Troy forum... this link will take you there. [www.troycustomdetectors.com]

KeithSouthern --

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds then like maybe you DO agree that the G2/Bug SE or Pro might serve well in a "primarily gold, secondarily backup coin machine" role. Could you venture a guess at how deep yours would have hit a clad quarter air-test wise? I don't have any questions on its performance w.r.t. gold...just the silver/clad issue I'm not sure about.

Steve

nickle would be about 15-16 using the 11 DD...So you can see it affinity preference ....This being the GBSE the G/2 I obtained was slightly/marginally less....

but yes as a gold hunter with ability to coin hunt which is rare in a gold machine it's a first pick..

It will also handle mineralized ground better than most machine's.........It see's in the dirt pretty dang good better than some high end machine's.....The tone break helps a lot also...Area's where the T-2 wants to grunt out a deeper target in 2 tone the G2 will report it as a good target with the ability to handle the ground better and the tone break if set correctly playing into the scenario for bad dirt target unmasking.... This is 2 tone Vs. 2 Tone....The nod would go to the G-2 in mineral's even on the higher conductor's...

This is just my take on it and in my dirt...Which is N.Ga Red clay....

Dirt changes everything on detector's performance...And the G-2 is geared for harsher ground ...........Gold bearing area's offer some bad dirt for sure......I live smack dab in the middle of a gold belt and copper producing area ,,,,


Maybe this is of some help?


Keith


P.S. the G-2 is a very capable multi purpose machine with it's strong point being Gold...Even the manual will state the unit will offer reduced yet capable coin hunting performance...So you should have no worries ..

Yes the X-5 even today is still world class and hard to beat....Gotta love the no-meter approach .....I know those find's are tough to make ....You ought to be proud of the recovery's

I really like the Gold !!!!

Keith

KeithSouthern --

Thanks for the further info. I'm in Oklahoma, and while we don't have the gold/copper, we do have an over-abundance of red, iron-rich clay. So maybe it would do a "nice" job on silver here, relatively-speaking -- given that other machines might suffer more in my dirt that the Bugs/G2 would based on your info, rendering them more close to "equal" in terms of depth on the higher conductors. 15-16" on a nickel is pretty doggone good IMO; a quick, far-from-ideal air test on my new F70 last night gave me 13" max on a nickel. But, it also gave me 14"+ on a quarter; from what you have shared, I doubt the Bug/G2 would do near that well, eh?

Steve

David Johnson was the mastermind of the Shadow X5.

One other engineer (Greg) working for Troy did layout and some troubleshooting the last few months after the DJ platform was well established.
I feel the original unit was better but Greg and Troy lowered the gain after the recall.
The credit for the X5 being such an excellent detector belongs primarilly to DJ for design and Troy for demanding superior components and hiring DJ.

Mike

Thanks for the background...........it's a bird...it's a plane.........no..............it's Super Dave J.........
Mild mannered detector engineer by day.................avenging crusader for awesome detectors by night......