So when is true next Gen Detectors going to hit the market !!

We have many nice detectors available and many machines offer an inch here or there in separation and depth capabilities.... but when do you feel a manufacture will come up with a true Next Gen or game changer ??

What manufacturer will truly make the next most wanted machine like XP did with the Deus ??

Also what tech do you think will be available when it arrives and how far advance will it be over modern VLF/PI tech now ?

Be interesting who will get the closest guess looking back in a year or so to come :0)

I do think that Fisher will come out with something new and innovative, rumors abound their about the release a new flagship this fall (of course that's been rumored before too).

I also believe that Nokta/Makro are worth keeping an eye on. I've seen several posts that they're just copying other vendors machines, but if that's the case, why are they working so much better? If anything, they're taking the other vendors technology to the next level in both performance as well as usability (perhaps not ergonomics, although I don't have any issues with the ergos on my R2).

I'm with Brian, I believe Fisher will be coming out with something pretty outstanding in the near future. By the same token, so to speak, while I respect Brian's views on the Makro Racer, I didn't hold the Racer I had in the same high regards. Plain and simple, mine was not anywhere near as deep as my F 75 or even my A T Pro. And I gave it every chance running it almost daily for near two months. Anyway, different strokes for different folks. HH jim tn

I hope at least one of the mosca or czx rumoured fisher machines is a coin slayer. All purpose at a minimum. The relic/gold machine market is fatigued.

Its one of those types of question 'how long is a piece of string',the basic concept of VLF machines has not changed in the last few decades,what the future holds i dont have my crystal ball with me at the moment,possibly the biggest leap foRward could be in the PI operating platform with a much improved discrimination or a hybrid of VLF and PI together.

Miniaturization of say a 'Ground Penetrating Radar' system could be another way forward in detecting technology,when ?? thats the question that cannot be answered.

Im enjoying what's available right now..

Let the new units come when they may..

Enjoy your self right now..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Yep, I am pretty happy with my main VLF and after 6+ years of owning them I discover something new about them right when I though it has shown me it all, It proves me wrong, No matter what comes out It won't change my thoughts about keeping the one I have, But I will add new ones to the Flock,

Apart from being able to update them by a USB cable and having 3 ways to GB, and make machines that can Run DD's and Concentric and make Hotter Coils to maximize all the Gain available, Separation is the way forward, Recovery we have got, we just need to be able to combine all these things and future proof the machines that come out., XP and Nokta/Makro are almost there, So all these things are possible.

John.

A couple things I will be watching for.

Better mineral handling.

Can any additional visual infomarmation be provided that is worthy.

I know manufacturers are constantly working.

One I think folks may have taken their eye off of for good reason.

Xp

The shiny object is currently version 4 upgrade.

But what if they have been designing a newer platform than Deus.

There is room from a price standpoint due to current Deus prices,,,for a newer platform...(more expensive)

The folks at Xp,,,keep a watchful eye.

And I could be wrong too,,,the newer platform may infact be cheaper,,,to compete with similarly priced detectors..

I'm hoping for better, more affordable PI machines for deep relic hunting. Currently, I'm pretty happy with what is out now as far as VLF machines go.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A couple things I will be watching for.
>
> Better mineral handling.
>
> Can any additional visual infomarmation be
> provided that is worthy.
>
> I know manufacturers are constantly working.
>
> One I think folks may have taken their eye off of
> for good reason.
>
> Xp
>
> The shiny object is currently version 4 upgrade.
>
> But what if they have been designing a newer
> platform than Deus.
>
> There is room from a price standpoint due to
> current Deus prices,,,for a newer platform...(more
> expensive)
>
> The folks at Xp,,,keep a watchful eye.
>
> And I could be wrong too,,,the newer platform may
> infact be cheaper,,,to compete with similarly
> priced detectors..

Oh yes, I forgot about that Mineral / Imask gizmo, Keith just Schooled me on that, Great Idea.

John.

My thoughts are along the lines of a waterproof machine that can handle saltwater beaches and relic hunting. A PI and VLF hybrid that can handle the worst of mineralization. Something like a waterproof TDI with an updated CTX 3030 LCD type display that has a computer upload for any future improvements in software. My money is riding on Fisher/Tec to make it happen, maybe with the upcoming Mosca that has been rumored about. They are the only company outside of Minelab that has the right people in place to make it happen, in my opinion. Great depth on targets with great target ID and the ability to hit small gold. Add in great target separation/unmasking ability and then of course the ability to interchange different coils and headphones for different hunting situations and the variations in different peoples hearing abilities. A true one machine for all styles of hunting scenario. Beach/saltwater, relic, and gold. If they could do it and keep the price under $2500 then they would have a true winner. That's everything on my Christmas wish list. Is that asking for too much?...Stuart

A PI with discrimination. Then you can throw all the VLF detectors in the dumpster.

Detectors that can be updated over the web? Minelab had the feature used it once. XP tried it a few times, but the updates never really impressed me that much. Just more bells and Whistles. I finally figured out the reason I kept getting rid of my Deus units. Too complicated. I bet Whites wishes they had the feature. It would really come in handy for problems like they have.

Wireless detectors? I like wireless headphones, but they add to the price and are detector specific. Wireless coils? I hate em. XP coil prices are outrageous. Plus the wireless coil is just another place for outside EMI to enter the system. Underwater usage is hindered. Who cares about a coil wire? Run it straight up and inside the shaft like a Minelab.

All terrain detectors? Unless it is multi frequency or as stable as the Makro Racer in salt water then it is not All Terrain. A nice option for cleaning your detector. Just take it in the shower. It comes in handy when it rains.

Ergonomics are important. Something the detector companies could easily do, but they seem to blow it off as a cumbersome idea. Minelab with the weight. Makro with the S Shafts.

Simplicity! I love features like tone break and bins. Just not five pages down. Makro has done well here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2016 12:39PM by goodmore.

New is just that new but does it work? And even though they may have found a way to come up with a better idea I think it will be hard to beat the deus. What we need is unmasking in the worst iron and depth and a choice of Freq. The deus has some tricks that really work if you can deal with what it takes to hunt the iron or trash and find what others have missed. Fisher told me a about a hybrid PI that will do what a VLF will do but way better. But time is running out on sites and I'm sure hunted out sites have more to find that may be deeper and or masked by iron..

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Profit margins come into play therefore most companies color units different and rename present technology features so don't expect anything mindboggling as research etc. cost bucks...

A next generation detector will be just that..

Like the insight to One Des told us about... Ultra lite....BBS/VLF Hybrid...Unmasking better than we have now and handling adverse ground better than we have now..

that will be next generation..

Not Till those mindblowers come as we've seen a few times in our lives on revolutionary advances in detector design I'M happy putting to use what we have available right now and await what's coming...BUT we have units right now that can unlock sites very well,, better than they could a decade ago in iron and in ways mineral too....

VLF revamps are moving along and mainly on unmasking made easier for the masses to be able to take advantage of what used to be a skill trait to a user....New tech will be what blows us away but who will offer it??

Might not even be a company we've heard of YET??

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

its a big ask and a big financial risk ,XP spent millions on the deus up front ,so who else would ?

A lot of cool ideas in this thread. Things that I would like to see that I would buy...

PI that discriminates...this would be a game changer...

An actual operating system for MDs...the OS we use on the CTX and others remind me of my verizon phone 20 yrs ago.

More information about targets...maybe visuals or something with accurate depth.

Otherwise I think the CTX is my machine right now. Its waterproof to 10ft, I can change the coils/headphones, coil wire inside tubing so no mess, wireless headset on land, balanced well, carbon tube, screen with lots of information about the target, patterns that I can add to via the computer, and as deep as a PI on my beaches. Plus there is a GPS if I need it. I think there can be tons of little tweaks that could be made but I just cant believe how much better I like it compared to my CZ21/Excal.

I think the PI/VLF combined is a cool idea but I would imagine that could be very heavy. It would be good for you guys that go deep in the water or have lots of mineralization to deal with though. It doesn't seem like VLF/PI technology has been changing very much. Probably because the ROI is just not there for a company to take the chance on the R&D only to fail.

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2016 04:40PM by adamBomb.

As Keith and a few others have stated, we have a decent batch of very versatile detectors available to us right now that bring us some of the Best Progression in the VLF series, and once we sort through to find a model (or two or three, etc.) and assortment of search coils to fit our needs at various kinds of site challenges .... we just need to get out and use them, learn them, and master them. If we do, all will be well because our 'fun' and enjoyment will be complemented by the desired keepers we will find.

As for "Next Generation" of metal detectors, to me that would mean something not too different from what we have other than adding to versatility. Something like taking some of the best proven performance we have on-hand, and blending it with a few added adjustment features, and best of all make it have a selectable operating frequency opinion.

Yes, something like being waterproof to about 10 feet would be welcome for some folks, or maybe bringing us a truly versatile PI model with very 'simple' and 'functional' Discrimination which h could be of interest to some avid detector users. But there are some problems facing this decaying industry, especially from a manufacturer's standpoint, and that big problem is to R&D something that is 'functional' for many applications and not just a limited-market 'specialty' detector, while being able to bring us something new and creative, maintain or enhance current in-the-field performance, and ..... be able to produce and market the product at a fair and reasonable MSRP.

Detectors that will appeal to a broad-range of users. Something appealing, and affordable, to a Traditional Coin Hunter or Average Hobbyist on to a devoted Relic Hunter or specialty use crowd like a Gold Nugget Hunter. To folks who are usually more experienced and maybe put in more hunting time to better know their equipment who I consider to be an Avid Detectorist. But, as I stated, still reasonably affordable.

About 1983 we saw the first real surge in retail pricing when the 'original' Teknetics introduced Visual target ID, soon followed by adding Audio Tone ID, and dressed it all up with a new looking package, accompanied by a higher-dollar MSRP for the era with their top-end CoinComputer series. There was a notable surge in the industry at the time, mainly by USA detector manufacturers, to compete in the top-dollar market of target ID detectors, and while there was not really that much added cost for the extra parts needed, it was really a rush to capture some of the market share and grabbing sales with a higher-priced detector.

By "higher priced" I am referring to those that retailed somewhere in the $695 to $900 (USA dollars) price range. This occurred when most detector manufacturers were selling very versatile detectors more in the $350 to $495 range. It also happened about the time the metal detecting industry more-or-less peaked from about 1983 to 1986 or so. There were still a good number of metal detecting clubs around at that time, and we even saw a little increase if club organization for the next 5 to 10 years or so, be we also have seen a major decline in metal detecting activity as well.

In many areas of this country we have seen parks and schools put off-limits to metal detecting, and in some cities they have required a detecting hobbyists to apply for and carry a 'permit' to detect allowable public areas. Restrictions on recovery techniques, and other things that have changed the detecting industry. Along with the urban area restrictions many of the folks who got started in the hobby early-on were middle-aged to older, even retired, and in the 30+ years since the business really peaked, they have lost interest, aged to the point they are much less active, and I personally know of many who have simply passed away.

All the magazines associated with the metal detecting hobby seemed to disappear from magazine racks at most stores and markets, and many of them just closed up and died. The two left are mostly found 'on-line' because there are hardly any 'local' metal detector dealers left who really know the products, who use the products, and who get out and promote metal detecting anymore. Instead, major discounting and the Internet sale business seem to have helped eliminate many from dealing in detectors, and along with that comes visibility, local support, dwindling numbers of newer people and an accompanying decline in club activity or just far, far fewer clubs.

Making things worse was the big ticket detector prices that were beyond what even most Avid Detectorists were willing to or able to spend, That was met head-on really by Garrett Metal Detectors when they dropped much of their entire product line and captured the lower-end price range with their Ace series, and followed that up with a couple of AT series models in the mid-price range. Fisher/Teknetics have come up with a couple of mid-priced offerings but nothing remarkable other than the T2 Classic at $499, and White's has struggled for 3-4 years now, and still are in my opinion. Their best versatile detector is still the $900 MXT Pro.

Both XP and Minelab have a couple of higher-priced models out there that are attracting a few users who can spend more, but I have seen some of the better competition coming from outside the USA, and those are the Makro Detector's Racer series, priced at $499 for the Racer, $699 for the Gold Racer, and $749 for the Racer 2. The Nokta Detectors FORS series have the CoRe at $699 and the Relic at $799 ... but that includes two search coils.

I can see something with improved versatility coming out for a slightly higher MSRP, but the industry, especially in the USA market, is slowly but surely slumping as inter4est and participation dwindles to an eventual death. At least little appeal for many uncoached newcomers, fewer clubs and available hunting locations for the masses, and only the more Avid Detectorists who research and put in the time and effort and get out there will remain .... and we don't really need or want a lot of high-cost detectors.

Nope, I am very satisfied right now with what I own and use, and I'll match them against any of the competition in-the-field and feel quite confident. All I need to do, or any of us really, is grab a current versatile detector, two or three search coils for it/them, and get out hunting.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"
Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviewsmonte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com503-481-8147Fisher-1, Makro-1, Minelab-1, Nokta-1, Tesoro-2, White's-1Garrett MS-3 -- Killer B's 'Hornet' & 'Wasp'Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***

jim tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm with Brian, I believe Fisher will be coming
> out with something pretty outstanding in the near
> future. By the same token, so to speak, while I
> respect Brian's views on the Makro Racer, I didn't
> hold the Racer I had in the same high regards.
> Plain and simple, mine was not anywhere near as
> deep as my F 75 or even my A T Pro. And I gave it
> every chance running it almost daily for near two
> months. Anyway, different strokes for different
> folks. HH jim tn

Jim I know exactly what you mean. I suspect it just comes down to the type of sites you detect, and the dirt you have to detect. I had the Fisher F70 early on and everyone at the time was saying it was such a great machine, heck even Dave Johnson has said in some regards it's better then the F75, but I never got decent depth with it. I got the F75 LTD and it was far deeper. I'm quite sure it's deeper then the Racer1 or Racer2, BUT amazingly the Racer's are able to detect targets that the F75 simply cannot see for whatever reason (my theory is that tiny rusted iron blinds the F75, whereas the Racer isn't blinded by it).

I don't do much deep turf park hunting these days, mainly because most of the parks around here are pretty cleaned out, and I've found I rather enjoy detecting older sites like Spanish adobes, stage stops, and ghost towns a lot more, and for the most part at these sites, separation and unmasking are more valuable attributes then depth, so the Racers are doing well at those sites. If I were to go back to deep turf silver slaying at parks, I'd probably pick up a CTX, but heck I can't see paying $2K for a CTX with the limited amount of finds you'd make at our parks, I'd be 70 years old by the time it paid for itself - lol

My F75 has paid for itself many times over, as have my Racers, and I think the CZ70 probably has too. I do wonder what I've missed with my F75 over the years? I've had it since the F75 LTD came out in 2009, and did the LTD2 upgrade program. The LTD2 is a far better machine then the original LTD, but still is unable to find the targets that the Racer does at times.

HH,
Brian

I agree, Brian. The Racer's and 75's are site relative. Although many of my old coin hunting spots have some good age, they have been in use up through modern times. Hence, depth is important and also being able to sift through layers of modern trash. And, I know the 75 platform pretty good. I've had one in my hands since the camo F 75 first came out. And, it's fun hunting behind one's self and make an occasional really nice find. HH jim tn

Lots of good thoughts. I do agree that VLF tech has pretty much hit a wall, actually, probably 20 years ago, and all recent designs have been relatively minor tweaks of the same basic technology. FBS is probably the furthest advancement so far, but still not exactly breakthrough.

Reading Monte's post made me think back to the 1980's when breakthroughs were coming every few years: Ground Balance (GEB in White's-speak), GEB Disc, Target ID, digital screens and far better adjustability, etc.. I believe the White's XLT was the last detector that was a big leap in capability before detectors really started plateau-ing and all the gains since the early 90's have been relatively minor.

Anyway... back to the topic, I'd really like to see non-motion discrimination. So you could inch around SUPER slow and in real-time get target ID info. That would be about as close to X-ray vision as you could get. I tried endlessly to use my XL Pro in TR mode to try to do that very thing, but in the end realized you still need motion to get Target ID and you lose the ability to discriminate out anything because in TR you need to be adjusted exactly to the ground. It's still an interesting technique and one I have used successfully in really trashy areas.

If they could design a pure non-motion discrimination mode with full VLF depth capability, that would be my detector dream come true.

Darren

Better depth and id in mineralized ground - PI level depth with id - give me good id to 10" in any ground and silent to hotrocks and our world will change

Much greater user feedback - Keith has emphasised sound as a key element - what if our ears turned out to be the next breakthrough?

Light, power efficient waterresistant design and MSRP of $1500 or less.

2017

Who?

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold