NASA is taking a beating!

It is only going to get worse.

Sorry Tom, I'm being negative. (But truthful!)

Space Shuttle program is 98.4% successful, it's more like 1000%, look what it has done, I remember when Kennedy said we were going to the moon, I thought back then, I was about 10 years old, yeah, in the year 2050, for what they did, it is mind boggling, and the Hubble scope, have you seen the pics, people don't remember what it was like 50 years ago, we need 10 of these programs

I do believe we need to be 100% perfect.......100% of the time..........and we will continuously strive for this..........knowing we are err human.

Yes, I do indeed hold NASA somewhat accountable for Orbital Sciences......as NASA did 'oversee' the operation. . . . yet, there is MUCH more behind the scenes.....that is not obvious to the public.

The entire Space Program is much less than 1% of the Federal Budget.

Tom, compared to Columbus and the other explorers, we are doing just fine, I know there is no room for error when you are in space

NASA has done a lot for this country. No one can dispute that. Greed is taking over this nation and it is going to cost us dearly. Politicians make an ill-fated attempt to balance a budget by slashing the easiest thing for them, that doesn't affect them. NASA will take the heat for a slice of the budget as seen on this thread but yet we as a nation will allow senseless earmarks for silly projects go undisputed. NASA is not the problem... our government surely isn't running 98% efficient yet I haven't heard any bitching on this board about that!!!! Wake up America!

Oh we're bitchin schultzie,... in between detector talk.

Tom D. gives us the freedom and latitude to express our views..........even if they disagree with his views.......and he never censors our writings or bans us.
Now he's what all forum moderators/site owners should be.

Thank you Tom!!!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2011 12:08AM by TerraDigger.

I can see plenty of 'emotions' in these sensitive threads; yet, I see (proportionately) MORE constructive dialogue. And if this is the case..........it does not matter if you are "point" or you are "counter-point". Misunderstandings/misinformation can be corrected. Different points-of-view can be understood. Broad/aggregate perspective will be aspired.

For me it boils down to what our future generations see this as... (the "scaling down" of the space program.)
We have everybody from Presidents to teachers telling children "the best minds can work at NASA-be doctors etc...

Yet the very summit that many tell us we can reach for, is at this minute, being de-constructed right before our very eye's.
To me this is a sad take on our current administration. Why remove something that since the 50's, has helped define
the very fabric of this country.

SilverPeter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me it boils down to what our future
> generations see this as... (the "scaling down" of
> the space program.)
> We have everybody from Presidents to teachers
> telling children "the best minds can work at
> NASA-be doctors etc...
>
> Yet the very summit that many tell us we can reach
> for, is at this minute, being de-constructed right
> before our very eye's.
> To me this is a sad take on our current
> administration. Why remove something that since
> the 50's, has helped define
> the very fabric of this country.


in a word!.."MONEY!"..the "end" doesn't justify the "means"
in a lot of people's minds!..unfortunately!
very disconcerting!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

therover61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Schultzie,
>
> Your quote
>
> "All the Republicans want to do is fight the
> Democrats and vice versa and nobody wants to do
> whats right for the country" says it all brother.

That is why I'm a Tea Party Member and an American Extremist.

In most cases I wouldn't walk around the corner to urinate on any politician but
I'd rather have a Republican in office rather than to put up with the likes of Obama
with his ability to sky-rocket the national debt, wasted tax revenue on worthless stimulus,
halting domestic oil drilling, extreme social entitlements.....oh, hell the list is too long ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

How many times will it take all of the Democratic supporters to completely understand that
socialism and liberalism are festering pustules on freedom and prosperity.
" Yes We Can" ........more like........ "Yes We Can F Everything Completely Up"

If any of you voted and supported the Democrats and you believe in their policy, you owe me and the rest
of this country an apology. Don't even attempt to vilify past administrations, its not going to work this time.
None of the mess that Obama has created has anything to do with a past administrations.
His failures for resolving anything are his failures.
Man up, take the hit, any of you Obama supporters will get more respect with honestly admitting that you made an extremely
bad choice rather than to continue with blaming others for your mistakes that cost all of us dearly.

Now, lets go swing some coil on the soil.

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is why I'm a Tea Party Member and an American
> Extremist.
>
> In most cases I wouldn't walk around the corner to
> urinate on any politician but
> I'd rather have a Republican in office rather than
> to put up with the likes of Obama
> with his ability to sky-rocket the national debt,
> wasted tax revenue on worthless stimulus,
> halting domestic oil drilling, extreme social
> entitlements.....oh, hell the list is too long
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>
> How many times will it take all of the Democratic
> supporters to completely understand that
> socialism and liberalism are festering pustules on
> freedom and prosperity.
> " Yes We Can" ........more like........ "Yes We
> Can F Everything Completely Up"
>
> If any of you voted and supported the Democrats
> and you believe in their policy, you owe me and
> the rest
> of this country an apology. Don't even attempt to
> vilify past administrations, its not going to work
> this time.
> None of the mess that Obama has created has
> anything to do with a past administrations.
> His failures for resolving anything are his
> failures.
> Man up, take the hit, any of you Obama supporters
> will get more respect with honestly admitting that
> you made an extremely
> bad choice rather than to continue with blaming
> others for your mistakes that cost all of us
> dearly.
>
> Now, lets go swing some coil on the soil.


Thanks! You just proved my point. Your right, and we're wrong... no tolerance or compromise. This country will fall if we don't change this mentality.

schultzie Wrote:

> Thanks! You just proved my point. Your right, and
> we're wrong... no tolerance or compromise. This
> country will fall if we don't change this
> mentality.

We can still be friends and agree to disagree. Our bond as fellow th'er's will ensure this but I'll warn you that the following most likely will seem strongly adversarial but it is surly not meant to be as such. No personal attack is meant but I will invoke some of the passion for right and exuberance for truth that I possess so bare with me my friend.

No sir, you have proven my point. Thank you.
My statements are 100% accurate and I stand by them.
I agree with you, you are wrong. The vast majority of American's now see the error of their ways when they voted this
inexperienced, bombastic marxist into office.
There were quite a few completely wrong people including liberals, socialist lefties, the uneducated / ignorant, government workers, the old and feeble minded, the young blind followers, most minority and many ethnic voters, and the "we should get free ________ entitlement generation"

Do you or would you compromise with only receiving 1/2 or less of the cure or resolution for your affliction or predicament?
Would it be acceptable if we only allow you 50% of your civil rights and liberties?

I'm not about to change or compromise right or wrong, this is purely as simple as black or white.
Being 1/2 wrong is still 100% wrong. No Ebonics or liberal math required for this equation.
Tolerance, sorry but at times like these there is none. We've all had enough and we will no longer tolerate further abuse of power and misappropriations our tax revenue any longer.

The mentality of our country has changed and I hope it continues to change. I'm not talking about "Hope and Change" or any of that fairytale fertilizer, I'm talking with regards towards making Obama a one term President and never ever repeating the mistake.
There are so very many Americans like me, who will not compromise with our fate as a Nation, our lives, our freedom, prosperity or our integrity.

Obama's agenda and his policies have halted all chance of prosperity and all hope for recovery. He and his cabinet are dangerous. They pose more of a threat than we have ever faced. This pile of feces is capable of bringing the entire nation to its knees as a subservient, totally government dependent poverty stricken 3rd world clone.
Some of you need to forget about party affiliations as they are simply labels for vilification of the opposition. You either have all of our best interest in mind as a whole, as in entirety or you have some F'd up version of what is popular around the water cooler while parroting regurgitated left-wing propaganda speak from the talking heads in the media and 6pm news shows.

Try using some common scenes about right and wrong. Obama is far from done ransacking everything. You will remember this post. The worst is yet to come.

You sir sound as if you may very well have voted for and supported Obama. If so are you still not willing to own the mistake? Have a one little shred of integrity.
How strong are your convictions?

Can you name one single policy change, one single law that has helped America? Come on just one? Please, bring it.
Can you name any of his policies that have not endangered or have not jeopardized America or will you simply blame and vilify someone for his
ineffectiveness, inability and total failure?

Cap and Trade, Obama Care, ass-kissing and apologizing for America, bowing to heads of state.
Can you or anyone else explain why gasoline is less than a dollar in Brazil but not here in the worlds predominate super power?
Why the hell is a loaf of bread going to soon be over $3.00 a loaf?

Can you explain why the all other countries of the entire world who drill for offshore oil are doing so and we are not?
Can you explain the national debt is now approaching 15 trillion almost exceeding our GDP ?

Its all rhetorical........... I'll answer the last one for you, Obama.

Tolerance & Compromise, Hell No.

What we need is normal folk in Washington,
not dems or repubs.
All these years of putting Ex lawyers in
office has taken its toll.
To start with how many honest lawyers are there?
If he is honest and gets in office, he won't stay that way for long.
No one would dare run a business like the gov is being run.
How long before they would be in jail?
Add to this propaganda of the news media and there will be
an incredible mess.
They really think they know what is best for us and will create
laws to make sure we live within the guidelines they lay down.
Don't worry, regardless of whether you are repub or dem, you
will not like the future they want all of us to have.
Clean air act, free trade agreements, high taxes, high gas prices,
crippled economy are only a few examples we can thank our gov
for.

Take Libya for example......we could have helped toppled Khaddhafi with minimal military effort......he's a known sworn enemy to the U.S. and several western nations. Yet our President sits on his hands......it almost seems like on purpose. And I personally think the people of Libya would be grateful for our intervention. We had a chance to actually make friends in the Arab world. This President has no intentions of helping our country. It shows in his tenure so far.
I am not a republican, democrat, tea party'er or any other political affiliation. Simply an american who is suffering from a broken heart at what has become of this once great Nation.

Steve(MS)...I am with you my man...TOO MANY LAWYERS ! I still believe that litigation is the number one source for all the garbage in this country. I want accountants, teachers and scientists in Congress...not lawyers and CEO's. The freaking laws are so convoluted, so full of loop holes and technicalities, the common person has no chance.

Terra...gotta tell you something. The Arabs would much rather die from their own doing, then to be helped by Americans who take it upon themselves to help them. There is no way we can go in there unilaterally. We need support and with the blessing of some entity like NATO, Arab League, etc. At least now the Arab League agrees with having a no fly zone, but setting that up isn't easy.

There still has to be bases on the ground, and command and rescue in case a plane is shot down.

Even top military personnel say we are spread too thin already and don't have the capacity nor financial resources to do it alone.

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "I'm not about to change or compromise right or wrong, this is purely as simple as black or white."

> "Tolerance, sorry but at times like these there is none."

> "There are so very many Americans like me, who will not compromise with our fate as a Nation, our lives, our freedom, prosperity or our integrity."

> "Some of you need to forget about party affiliations as they are simply labels for vilification of the opposition. You either have all of our best interest in mind as a whole, as in
entirety or you have some F'd up version of what is popular around the water cooler while parroting regurgitated left-wing propaganda speak from the talking heads in the
media and 6pm news shows."

> "You sir sound as if you may very well have voted for and supported Obama. If so are you still not willing to own the mistake? Have a one little shred of integrity. How strong
are your convictions?"

> "Tolerance & Compromise, Hell No."





FYI - I am a registered, card carrying Republican! My parents were Republican and My grandparents were Republican too! Always have been. My beliefs are just a little further to the right than you give me credit for. So you can stop talking down to me like you are better than me (or anyone for that matter)... NOW. Your thought process IS the problem with this country! This problem didn't start with Obama... its been happening for years. All because BOTH sides/parties won't fix a darn thing because they can't/won't compromise on anything. "I'm right and your wrong"... that's how THEY think. Sound familiar???

"United we stand, divided we fall"... remember that. I happen to vote for whom I think will do the best job... Republican, Democrat, Independent... whom ever. And that's how it should be! That doesn't mean I necessarily agree 100% with whomever I am voting for.

The tea party isn't the answer to the country's problems either. You are sadly mistaken with that notion. There is too much "it's our way or the highway" thinking to allow it to work, as demonstrated by your above post. This nation was built on diversity and compromise and that is what we need to fix it. We need to pull together as a nation and bury the "us vs. them" mentality, and say "This is what is good for America!" Our fore-fathers worked hard TOGETHER to give us "One nation, under God". I bet you think they didn't disagree about anything too.

Ben Franklin said it best, "We must all hang together or surely we will all hang separately."

therover61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve(MS)...I am with you my man...TOO MANY LAWYERS ! I still believe that litigation is the number one source for all the garbage in this
> country. I want accountants, teachers and scientists in Congress...not lawyers and CEO's. The freaking laws are so convoluted, so full of
> loop holes and technicalities, the common person has no chance.



therover61 & Steve(MS) - Well said! I agree with both of your thoughts.

Obama takes his cues from behind the scenes Big Business. Like with the federal bailout and now Libya. To the oil companies, the overthrow of Khadafi would be bad for THEIR business. New contracts, negotiations and pricing structures would occur with a new government. Its sooooo obvious that Obama is wasting time to ensure the rebels are defeated. Using 'world consensus' as his pathetic excuse.
One of our aircraft carriers off the coast of Libya conducting no-fly/strategic bombing operations would be more than sufficent to halt Khadafi's limited military. No U.S. ground troops required.The rebels would take care of the rest of the fighting. And the Libyan rebels asked for our help weeks ago. Like I said, its not in the oil companies (or the puppet Obama's) interests to see the rebels succeed.

schultzie Wrote:
> > "Tolerance & Compromise, Hell No."
>
>
>
>
>
> FYI - I am a registered, card carrying Republican!
> My parents were Republican and My grandparents
> were Republican too! Always have been. My beliefs
> are just a little further to the right than you
> give me credit for. So you can stop talking down
> to me like you are better than me (or anyone for
> that matter)... NOW. Your thought process IS the
> problem with this country! This problem didn't
> start with Obama... its been happening for years.
> All because BOTH sides/parties won't fix a darn
> thing because they can't/won't compromise on
> anything. "I'm right and your wrong"... that's how
> THEY think. Sound familiar???
>
> "United we stand, divided we fall"... remember
> that. I happen to vote for whom I think will do
> the best job... Republican, Democrat,
> Independent... whom ever. And that's how it should
> be! That doesn't mean I necessarily agree 100%
> with whomever I am voting for.
>
> The tea party isn't the answer to the country's
> problems either. You are sadly mistaken with that
> notion. There is too much "it's our way or the
> highway" thinking to allow it to work, as
> demonstrated by your above post. This nation was
> built on diversity and compromise and that is what
> we need to fix it. We need to pull together as a
> nation and bury the "us vs. them" mentality, and
> say "This is what is good for America!" Our
> fore-fathers worked hard TOGETHER to give us "One
> nation, under God". I bet you think they didn't
> disagree about anything too.
>
> Ben Franklin said it best, "We must all hang
> together or surely we will all hang separately."

=====================================================

=====================================================


My thought process is mainstream and inline with millions of other hard working people who share the same.
There are more people now than ever who have become hardcore conservative.
I salute them for taking a stand against the tyranny that exists in our government. I hope and pray that more people stand up
and have the same exact attitude that I share with so many others.
This isn't about fairness or equality or a parameter in which to work within. You simply don't understand and most likely will not ever.

The left operates in an extremely predictable mode with repeating parameters as if they have a playbook they follow.
An issue is found to be viable as a vehicle to push through the left agenda, if there is not an issue to be resolved, one is created.
This issue regardless of being legitimate or not is then blown up, exaggerated, vilified while being pushed through the left slanted news media.
The ignorant sheep ( general population of lefties) jump up to defend protect and push through the proposed attached legislation but only based upon feeling and not truth or logic.
Any opposition to the scheme/scam of the day, will be branded as a kook, a lair, or stupid. The media runs with it.
If the left fails to fight back, if they are unable to spin out of it, if cornered, if logic or truth is unavailable in their defense then two things arise from their arsenal of B.S. are utilized. The (Race Card) and the (We must compromise / work together)
The "We Must Compromise" tactic is simply step one of the vilification process for opposition. With the media so willing to run on this premise its become a tool for the left to
attempt to get their way by stating that the opposition doesn't care about the problem that exists. In most cases its the problem that was manufactured by the left that we oppose it therefor we automatically oppose the B.S. legislation attached to the issue.

Again, I'll not compromise for any of the left and the left agenda because it is the exact opposite of what this country wants or needs or even agrees with.
I will not negotiate with criminals yes criminals hell bent on abusing the power that we have given them. Someone has to take a stand against this river of B.S. and many of us have simply pulled our boots higher. We need jobs, we need a healthier economy, we need to lower our governmental overhead costs, reduce the tax burden on tax payers and we to stop pending money that we do not have. This includes elimination of the left agenda and those who support it.


>>> "United we stand, divided we fall"... remember <<<<

You are mistaken, We are not united in any way, we can never be united because if we were, the left would be out of a job.
The left thrives upon class envy, social unrest among the classes, race baiting and so many other unscrupulous tactics.
"One Nation Under God" was removed from our system by the left. God has no place in school according to the left.
You'll never see the 10 commandments posted in a public school or in public or government building
for that matter and again because of lefts abusive power.

I totally dislike the idea and thought of collectively falling as a result of being bi-partisan or tolerating
the lefts inability to honestly and ethically solve our problems. I disagree with the left and their ideology.
We fraught our own Civil War as a result of ideology and the economic threat that existed.
If they want blood, they got. It would be so much easier for the left to simply pull their heads out of their asses and
stop the games, stop the tyrannical abuse and just do what is right for all of us and not just their voting constituency.
We don't care if the party has a name, Republican, Democrat, Independent.
We honestly don't care if the fly in ointment has a title or label such as moderate, liberal, progressive or any other tag or handle.
Wrong is wrong no matter what you call the perpetrator. Wrong, no matter what source or type, will be removed. Period.


>>> The tea party isn't the answer to the country's
>>> problems either. You are sadly mistaken with that
>>> notion.



You couldn't be more thoroughly and completely wrong. In fact that statement is about 110% wrong if you use the left's mathematics.
You obviously do not know anything about the Tea Party.
You seriously do not know what you are talking about and I know why.
You obviously are parroting and regurgitating the Liberal Left spin in opposition against the Tea Party.
When liberals are scared and can not fight against the truth, they lie, they spin and they vilify.

*** The Tea Party only has three key elements to our agenda.****
This simple and neat agenda scares the hell out of not only the left but all politicians.

1. Uphold the Constitution of the United States.
2. Smaller Government with full accountability for their actions.
3. Lower Taxes

That is it, 100% actual and factual, there nothing more to the Tea Party regardless of what you've heard from your idiot progressive left friends.

*** Now you tell me if this isn't a good idea. If its not, you sir are either a liar or a communist or maybe a progressive liberal.
If you dare utter the lefts propaganda in opposition then you will reveal your true identity to us.
Every liberal, every socialist, every progressive lefty, every moderate and anyone who is ignorant due to the fact that they heard something like" ____" about the Tea Party has a piece of miss-information, or left spun propaganda to throw up when they 100% of the time don't know squat about the Tea Party.
Please feel free to elaborate upon your version of the Tea Party and the disdain you hold and why. I'd love to hear it. Yes, I'm being bit sarcastic.




>>> There is too much "it's our way or the
>>> highway"

YES !!! Now your starting to understand, we are now making some progress with our dialog.
Yes that is exactly what happened during the November elections last year.
New Jersey has a Republican in office due to "Hit the Highway". Would you have ever believed that NJ would take a stand against the corruption.
You can thank the Tea Party.
Wait and see what happens in 2012. Obama is going to be gone, "ONE and DONE" the legacy will be nothing more than a
completely disturbing chapter of a 6th grade history book.
*** I want to congratulate you for one item and that is the fact that you do understand that "We The People" refuse tolerate the left any further.
We refuse to negotiate right and wrong for Our Nation.
We will simply remove them. You are in a minority of ideologs, a minority that will become hopefully extinct soon
There is only black and white, there is only right and wrong. There is no room for a job 1/2 finished, 1/2 the truth or 100% of what is good for only 10% of our citizens.

When someone has hemorrhoids and they are extreme, you've got no choice but to cut them out. These corrupt puss filled progressive bags of excrement cannot leave soon enough for the vast majority of normal Americans.

> >>
>>> Ben Franklin said it best, "We must all hang
>>> together or surely we will all hang separately."

I'll not hang with liars and thieves by proxy.
I'll not sacrifice or dissect the core values this country was founded upon, our founders beliefs, principals or the truth to be fair to a group who consistently fails to share them
or have all of our best interests.
These people, the progressives, the left, the liberals are our enemy, enemies of our nation, they are a serious threat and they will be removed.

The notion of what sounds good, sounds righteous and politically correct within your own circle is just that, good within your area within your circle of friends.
You are entitled to it. The lefts political battle cry of "In the Name of Fairness" has run its course and is in its death throws. The tactic of fairness and so many of the lefts
other socially manipulative tactics are so transparent and are as thin as a cheap tee on a drunk slut at a wet tee-shirt contest. The left has too many broken promises, too many excuses, to much blame while finger pointing for their own failures, its time for a more common sense and honest approach. This approach will not consist of progressives or liberals."Yes We Can" but this time around you can bet your ass it'll be on our terms, the terms of normal hardworking American citizens. It will be good for all and not just the minority being pandered to by the progressives.

No and thank God that there will be no compromise and there will be no tolerance. I think we have all had enough.

Wow! There you have it folks... the gospel according to Grant. This conversation is OVER!

God Bless America!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2011 07:41PM by schultzie.

Grant...you need to relax. Your comment:

"No and thank God that there will be no compromise and there will be no tolerance" is exactly the thought process of FANATICAL EXTREMISTS...you know, the ones most ALL Americans want to get rid of.

Do yourself a favor. Draw a line on a piece of paper 10 inches long. On the extreme left point, write the words LEFT WING NUTS. On the extreme right point, write the words RIGHT WING NUTS. In the middle, write the word COMPROMISE.

Now.....make that line into a circle. Check out what words are smack dab next to each other while what word is still the farthest from both.

I had a couple of public administration professors in college, 30 years ago, who predicted exactly, that what we are seeing today would occur. A bankrupt government and a devastated economy due to job outsourcing, amonst several other things. The other main thing would be the extreme polarization of groups/races/ethnicities as a result of the first two issues. Actually if you would have attended these classes you would be shocked at how accurate these professors were, both in timeline and methods of what would occur. They were both liberal leaning, but very astute in their knowledge of public administration and history. Knowledge and awareness is what matters, not left/right/middle etc.
Its not a matter of left/right, but a matter of using logic and fairness to govern this country. What made this land successful was that 'we are Americans', first and foremost, above class/race/religion/wealth etc. Not that it was perfectly executed in the past, but there was far more unity.
We need to get back to that, or surely we will fail. History has proven repeatedly that non-homogenous societies, in regards to that society's shared core values, do not survive.
You can argue with me, but you can't argue with history!!!!!!!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 03:13AM by TerraDigger.

schultzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow! There you have it folks... the gospel
> according to Grant. This conversation is OVER!
>
> God Bless America!


No hard feelings, It's o.k to cut and run if you have no ammo to fight with.
Like I said before, we can remain friends and agree to disagree brother Th'er.
We will conclude this thread topic, we should be discussing detectors and hunting, not politics. I'll leave you summation and closure.

My attitude and passion are shared by many and my words may be sharp but, I've never spoken anything but the truth, no matter
how abrupt and politically incorrect, it is what many people believe and how many others feel.
Millions share this same passion, millions.
Some are vocal, some are quiet but we are all extremely concerned and extremely motivated. They are from all parties, all races, from all ethnic backgrounds.
Our common bond is one shared by the fact that no matter who or where we come from, we are Americans and without any prefix.
We don't care about labels, you are either for truth and right or you are not. Pretty damned simple.

I am first to be in anyone's face who dares confront what we all know to be truth or make excuses for
the tyrannical abusive people responsible for governing. I'll make no apology for standing my ground, defending truth with fact.
Start the fire and we will pour gas on it, yes I'm one of those types, armed with enough hard fact and enough incontrovertible truth that anyone
ready for heavy sport had better come well prepared.

You may not agree with the truth or the facts but, they are what they are.
The reason for the Tea Party existence is because the normal hardworking people of our nation are no longer asking to be heard
we are demanding it. We will no longer be ignored. We will take back control and we will make the necessary changes.
Its inevitable, it is indisputable, it is absolute. The coming scorched earth bloodbath during the next presidential election will reflect the
total lack of apathy from voters. These government officials exist to serve us, we pay them to represent and govern. How dare they ignore us.
Many politicians are going to be off the payroll. They will most likely panic near the end, you will see Obama supporters, sympathizers and the rest of the drones, scatter like roaches to distance themselves in an attempt to shield the scrutiny which will rain upon them.
We will obtain full accountability from unscrupulous politicians one way or another. The voters scorn can be extreme.
It will be glorious, magnificent and righteous.

therover61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grant...you need to relax. Your comment:
>
> "No and thank God that there will be no compromise
> and there will be no tolerance" is exactly the
> thought process of FANATICAL EXTREMISTS...you
> know, the ones most ALL Americans want to get rid
> of.
>
> Do yourself a favor. Draw a line on a piece of
> paper 10 inches long. On the extreme left point,
> write the words LEFT WING NUTS. On the extreme
> right point, write the words RIGHT WING NUTS. In
> the middle, write the word COMPROMISE.
>
> Now.....make that line into a circle. Check out
> what words are smack dab next to each other while
> what word is still the farthest from both.


I'm not fanatical but I sure as hell can be extreme.
I hold an extreme passion for Honor, Integrity and Truth.
I'm an American Core Value Extremist.
I'll not make exceptions, compromises or concessions.
That is what created the mess we are in now.

One great thing about America is our freedom of speech
and another is our vote. Both are extremely powerful when executed truthfully.

Now that we've gotten it out of our systems, at least for now, lets
get back to detecting and the aspects there of.

Lets get to it !

I'd like to just add some a few points for those who work outside of the NASA or commercial aerospace industry. I'll be as elementary on this as I can. NASA is a government agency and in that capacity it procures launch services from the private sector. The big gorillas who offer launch services to NASA do so after they have been vetted for their capability and successful past performance. Lockheed Martin and Boeing are the 2 big gorillas... smaller apes are Orbital and the new baby ape SpaceX. Now...please listen clearly...NASA DOES NOT BUILD launch vehicles...however, they "procure" launch services on the open commercial market through the typical government contracting process. So what does NASA do for a mission? They develop DRMs (Design Reference Missions) for the launch service providers (the gorillas) to design launch vehicles to. We call these launch vehicles "boosters" because they boost the spacecraft to orbit. They also provide requirements which much be contractually met. Their job is one of being a "monitor"...is the DRM satisfied? are all requirements satisfied.....???

After the launch service provider designs a booster to meet the requirements of the DRMs, the launch service provider responds to a NASA solicitation for the need to procure a launch service for a particular mission. All of the gorillas may bid..only one will be chosen to actually launch the spacecraft. Ok...so now what does NASA do? NASA then typically (and this is fine tuned in each contract) provides insight to the ground processing of the booster and spacecraft. They also take a seat on console on launch day and monitor countdown progress and the health of onboard systems. NASA IS NOT the design house, they are not the system experts....they hired a gorilla to be that. The launch service provider populates the day to day ground processing team and launch day consoles with the proper engineering and operations team to get the job done...fly the bird to a point in space as the contract states.

Now...lets relate this to the Orbital payload fairing scenario. NASA did not design the fairing. NASA did not process the fairing or encapsulate the payload or preform the system checks prior to launch...Orbital did. The fault and blame for the failure is Orbital's...if you want to argue that it was NASA's fault then the procurement process needs to be gutted. In other words NASA needs to design, NASA needs to process and NASA needs to launch.

I've been in launch vehicle processing (manned and unmanned) for over 25 years. I am sorry to report that I lost a payload to the exact same problem back in the 90s..failure to separate a fairing. I was a launch director for one of the big gorillas and that is not a job I took lightly. The responsibility is enormous, the reward is tremendous...and a failure is devastating. Believe me when I say that Orbital is in the throws of a very detailed investigation to understand the why of the failure..and I guarantee that NASA is right alongside assisting with their expertise as best they can. It is in no ones best to have a flight failure.....and the positive of this will be that a lesson will be learned, applied to future missions and mission success will improve.

Let me end by saying that designing, processing and launching a complicated controlled explosion is no easy task. We design for failure scenarios by redundant systems (sometimes quad redundant) and our success rates prove the point. BUT........in the end, every thing..and I mean everything has to work perfectly...down to the last bit of control software when you light the fuse. Please understand that this is a very difficult business and that unfortunately, failure is a recognized part of it. Minimizing the chance of that failure is the key.........because the chance is always there.

Bob

Referencing the original post, my comments were related to the Fox News behavior, rather than how NASA, or their contractors, performed. These folks pile on the far right mantra, regardless of the subject matter... regardless of the complexity of the topic. There is no way these idiots will pursue any investigative analysis of the Tier 1's; it's just too much work. NASA is in the same box as "Education", "Efficiency", "Compromise", etc...

[www.thedailyshow.com]

Not to be trite....but who is going to reimburse the taxpayers on these losses? I really don't care that Orbital 'feels bad'. Or that they have some big 'investigation' going on. The first failure's 'big investigation' should have prevented the second mishap due to the same failure. I think the 'procurement' process should be 'gutted', re-analyzed and re-vamped. Gimme a break here. 600+ million sitting at the bottom of the ocean!!!!! I hold a degree in public administration, which includes being knowledgeable about government procurement and processes. And yes I do hold NASA partially responsible for this latest fiasco along with Orbital.
The proof is in the pudding...or should I say...two lost satellites.......to the tune of 640 million dollars

And NASA has awarded the 2013 launch of the Carbon II to.........tadahhhh......Orbital. NASA, please do look at your current procurement procedures, many of us beleaguered taxpayers would appreciate it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2011 04:38AM by TerraDigger.

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> therover61 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Schultzie,
> >
> > Your quote
> >
> > "All the Republicans want to do is fight the
> > Democrats and vice versa and nobody wants to do
> > whats right for the country" says it all
> brother.
>
> That is why I'm a Tea Party Member and an American
> Extremist.
>
> In most cases I wouldn't walk around the corner to
> urinate on any politician but
> I'd rather have a Republican in office rather than
> to put up with the likes of Obama
> with his ability to sky-rocket the national debt,
> wasted tax revenue on worthless stimulus,
> halting domestic oil drilling, extreme social
> entitlements.....oh, hell the list is too long
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>
> How many times will it take all of the Democratic
> supporters to completely understand that
> socialism and liberalism are festering pustules on
> freedom and prosperity.
> " Yes We Can" ........more like........ "Yes We
> Can F Everything Completely Up"
>
> If any of you voted and supported the Democrats
> and you believe in their policy, you owe me and
> the rest
> of this country an apology. Don't even attempt to
> vilify past administrations, its not going to work
> this time.
> None of the mess that Obama has created has
> anything to do with a past administrations.
> His failures for resolving anything are his
> failures.
> Man up, take the hit, any of you Obama supporters
> will get more respect with honestly admitting that
> you made an extremely
> bad choice rather than to continue with blaming
> others for your mistakes that cost all of us
> dearly.
>
> Now, lets go swing some coil on the soil.


i voted for the "old" man!..obama would " f**k up a "free" lunch!"
just sayin!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

THANK YOU BOB!!!! ...... as I am short on time...... and try to stick to detecting topics; yet, there is full relevancy.....and interest.....in what the GP 'sees/feels' IRT NASA, Space Program.....technoligical advancements, space education. . . etc..........