V3 performance

My hunting buddy has had his V3i since early this year.
He has excelled in finding the quantity of silver over both my F75 and the black LTD. We have compared many targets and in most cases his machine will usually give a more clear, consistent tone over my LTD. His VDI seem to be more stable too. Well any way I have a question that no one here might have an answer for. He has three settings that he uses on the V3i. I think they are AC sensitivity, gain and boost or something very similar. Now here is my questions:
Is the transmission power of the F75 and LTD preset?
If not, then does the sensitivity setting control both the signal transmitted and also the receiving signal.

One thing I've noticed with my LTD is the fact that most of the deep coins 6-8" can still be heard with sensitivity settings below 30.

I have found my LTD and the 5DD hit way harder on silver and other old coins. Mono tone and very little disc maybe 1-6

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

keep us posted lowboy!..there appears to be a lot
of "pent up" interest in this one!..thanks!

(h.h!)
j.t.

Hi guys, please straighten me out here -

Lowboy, are you saying you have compaired the V3 with the LTD in the field?

Jmart, pent up interest in the V3 or the LTD?

The V3i is probably the most capable multi purpose metal detector that has been built this decade. Only thing that makes it tough is the learning curve and there is not much information to help a person make the learning shorter right now. But once you start figuring things out, look out!

The transmission voltage of the F75's are preset. The only varibles are the receiving gain settings which are controlled through the disc and sensitivity settings. They control what is done to the received signal and have nothing to do with the transmit power. Fisher incorporates gain and sensitivity into one control called Sensitivity on the F75. Same basic controls as the V3i but preset and incorporated into one control.

The transmission voltage of the V3i is also preset, except you do have the Transmit boost feature which allows you to increase the transmission voltage to another preset setting. It too, then uses the independant RXGain and Sensitivity settings to control what is done to the received signal The RXGain setting makes the target signals larger prior to proccessing. (also controls the footprint of the coil from a receive standpoint). The Sensitivity controls the target signal threshold level (how big a signal needs to be to be reported on).

The V3i also incorporateds variable filters with two selections for each filter selection which allows you to chose the right filter for coil size, sweep speed and interference (interference can consist of ground minerals or EMI).

The F75 uses a preset filter selection and you have to learn to train yourself to sweep the speed the detector likes best.

It is that adjustablity of the V3i that allows it to outhunt the F75's and the Etracs. It just takes longer to learn how to do it.
HH
Mike

I have hunted with a V3 but never tested it against the LTD....I think once you know your machine from top to bottom you can hunt with the best. I don't like the whites in Calif soil and I don't like to program a machine. I wonder why NASA Tom never used it.The DFX had lots of programing and I use to be a dealer and the Fisher CZ3 still kicked ass on the DFX in calif even with some of Whites programs that were given to me by Jimmy Serria.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Thanks for that info Mike. Funny, I was just reading on a Whites V3i forum about that detector and then came over here to see a thread. I'd be interesting to know more if any of you guys have used it. I will get another detector next year for sure, hopefully Teknetics comes out with a top end coin machine. Anyway, I'm a little bit worried to put so much time into learning a new detector like the V3i. Perhaps if I had the space or access to a test garden that wouldn't be such a big deal...

Turn and go (somewhat) detectors seem awfully powerful these days, but all that extra info on the V3i is interesting. Then again, there are learning sounds, but I'm not sure it will ever take you anywhere near the info that the V3i gives you. I'm using an Omega 8000 and getting very good depth. I got a couple of more silver coins recently (small and thin) at around 6" on one and 8" on the other (but I almost missed both as they were faint signals - so a bit more power would be nice.)

The multiple frequencies of the V3i are an attraction as you can hit all different kinds of coins well, works well in mineralized ground, etc. I've been looking at the XP Deus here in Europe and it has four frequencies but you can't use but one at a time. It is quite expensive but the guys using them say it's the fastest out there and does great in iron - a European necessity it seems. The Deus is pretty programmable though, but not nearly as much as the V3i (I read the Deus manual a couple of times and just reading on the V3i forum I can see it's more complicated.) Does anyone know if you can adjust the recovery speed on the V3i? I would imagine so.

Earthmansurfer,
The V3i has a very wide setting range for the recovery speed. Just last night I was working with mine in the house. I live in an upstairs apartment. My floor is concrete with reinforcing steel and rebar and electrical conduits. I was just fooling around with my Bigfoot coil, tying footprint to RXGain, and recovery speed to footprint. Anyway, at one point I tossed a dime onto the floor and tried to pick it up. It must have landed ontop of one of those beams cause all I got was a threshold null when I passed my coil back and forth over it. The V3i has live controls which are just like turning knobs, which mean you can make adjustments while you are sweeping and hear the difference just like using a knob.
I then started increasing my recovery speed (decreasing numbers) and low and behold I started picking up the dime, first chirp, then a good tone, then continuing until I got the typical double blip of a DD coil when it is too close to the target. I scooted the dime away from that area and then started decreasing the recovery speed until I was getting a very long audio response on the dime, typical of what you might want for deep turf hunting when the targets are far apart.

If you ever wanted to create your own metal detector with speciallized features for specialized targets, the V3i will let you do it. Over and Over and Over. You can custimize to a specific coil and specific targets and site conditions. Just create the program and save it and your done. For instance, using the Bigfoot as the example, I'm working on my Bigfoot Woodchip, my Bigfoot Sand, my Bigfoot Trash Turf, and my Bigfoot Deep Turf programs. Each of these are tailored specifically for the coil, then for features, then for the site, then for the targets.

I think the preset programs are great for giving you an idea of the versatility of the machine because each of them are different. They put a lot of though into creating these to show all the different ways this machine can be setup and used.

The F5 is my favorite because we clicked right out of the box. The V3i is a favorite because I can create a favorite program that I personally designed to click with me for a certain coil/feature/site/target combo.

Don't know what more to say.
HH
Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2010 05:26PM by Mike Hillis.

Thanks again Mike, well said. You got me a little excited. As I said, I like the XP deus but the frequencies operate separately and looking at the Minelabs and the CZ's (I think) they are depth deamons with the multiple frequencies and also hit all coins well. I think I'm looking for something that will get some coins a bit deeper and is more programmable than my Omega (but I love it!).

Last question, since you are the F5 man and since I am your adopted brother with an Omega 8000 ;-) , how would you compare the depth and ability to separate the F5/Omega withe the V3i? I am a coin hunter, mostly copper and some silver and the ground GB's at around 57 with out much mineralization. (At my favorite site - some other places are worse of course.)

Regarding V3i depth.
Bench testing with the 300MM coil. 3 Frequency, Max RXGain and Disc Sensitivity, US Dime = 10" with high tone.
Bench testing with the 300MM coil. 2.5kHz single Freq, max RXGain and Disc Sensitivity, US DIme = 14" with high tone.

I don't have any TX Boost info with my 300MM coil because it's not V rated and overloaded when RXGain was raised above 6 (RXGain settings range is 1 through 15) so I can't tell you how much more depth past the 14" mark the TX Boost would have given me.

That is bench testing. Dirt sometimes knocks the air out of bench testing.

Throw in Stereo Mix mode, running the no motion all metal channel in one ear and the motion discriminate channel in another ear and I would imagine that you could even pull more depth from those fringe targets below the range of the motion discriminate. '

We already discussed recovery speed. I don't know yet though if I can get that same machine gun audio over small targets like the F75, T2 and F5 are capable of giving. I haven't got that far yet

HH
Mike

With my sporadic/intermittent/limited/time-prohibitive testing of the V3i in my test-garden..................... the last day.......the last time ... I tested the unit....... I played with the controls/configuration for about 95 minutes.........and the best I could do....is acquire a 12" deep clad dime..... intermittently. In the complex test-garden, I could not acquire either dime in the "ferrous (nails) vs non-ferrous (dime)".......nor the "non-ferrous (pull-tabs) vs non-ferrous (dime)". In this case, I surmise this is the resultant of a wider coil EM footprint in concert with slightly slower microprocessor. This is w/stock coil. A different coil......and the resultant would have..... most probably..... been (possibly dramatically) different.

Thanks Tom, sounds like the stock coil isn't the best for working in "traffic". Perhaps something similar to an 11"DD coil would be optimal for conditions requiring better separation and speed?

I think I have become spoiled by using machines like the T2 and Omega that seem very fast on target recovery and get very good depth to boot. (I am still shocked at what I'm getting with my Omega relative to my old T2). There is something to be said for what Dave Johnson has done with those machines and yet keeping the controls simple. Perhaps something in the middle of an Omega and V3i (control wise) would make more sense (like a multiple frequency machine!) . I am just getting a bit bored with running my Omega in d2 mode and then checking targets in d4 mode - I want some tweaking capability. I guess the V3i is at the other extreme end of the spectrum.

Some great info and perspectives, thanks guys.

The Omega is one of Dave's #1/top/favorite platforms..........and for good reason. There are some unique electronic concepts incorporated into the Omega........that are not in other units...............one of them being....in how the Omega handles/processes iron.......(algorithm, timing etc....). It is not uncommon for Dave to take the best out of each platform...........and all-inclusively incorporate it into a clean-slate new-platform.

got my posts mixed up!..this was meant for the g2 that "lowboy"
recently acquired!..honest mistake!

(h.h!)
j.t.

it would appear that whatever dave has done,a "ton" of experienced "coin shooters"
are NOW using the omega 8000 platform.

(h.h!)
j.t.

My hunting buddy switched from the stock coil to the SEF 10 x 12 coil and his finds increased many times. He admits having problems with multiple targets, but has found if he gets a short high tone of a coin he slows down and pinpoints the location which has helped with finding most of the silver when we hunt.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With my
> sporadic/intermittent/limited/time-prohibitive
> testing of the V3i in my
> test-garden..................... the last
> day.......the last time ... I tested the
> unit....... I played with the
> controls/configuration for about 95
> minutes.........and the best I could do....is
> acquire a 12" deep clad dime..... intermittently.
> In the complex test-garden, I could not acquire
> either dime in the "ferrous (nails) vs non-ferrous
> (dime)".......nor the "non-ferrous (pull-tabs) vs
> non-ferrous (dime)". In this case, I surmise this
> is the resultant of a wider coil EM footprint in
> concert with slightly slower microprocessor. This
> is w/stock coil. A different coil......and the
> resultant would have..... most probably..... been
> (possibly dramatically) different.

He has also noticed the actual footprint of this coil is quite a bit larger too. He has noticed that some targets sound off about 2" before the coil actually goes over the target. Of course the F75 and LTD will do the same thing if the sensitivity is turned up.

The RX Gain controls the footprint of the coil. Any setting higher than 10 affects the coil footprint more than it does the depth. The general theme being taught is to adjust it as high as the ground minerals allow upto and including maxing it out. That is bogus advice. Adjust RXGain for target density, just like you would adjust recovery speed. You have to bench test the bejesus out of the V to learn anything as public information is very limited and folks are more concerned with showing finds to keep up with the jones than really explaining how the thing works.

HH
Mike

Thanks for that advice Mike, I wrote it in the manual. Seriously, when is the book coming out on the V3i - What have you heard?

My only concern (outside of the sheer complexity) and you touched upon it, is the recovery speed. You didn't really go into that beyond saying it's adjustable but you did mention you need to do some testing. What are you hearing from others? With the horse of a processor it has I would think it should be incredibly fast but I don't see much at all on the forums (I do see people digging very deep targets - 10" - 12" though). It seems like hunting in Europe depends in large part on recovery speed. How does it stack up against the F75LTD or any other fast machines?

Any other major tips on the machine please mention them if they come to mind. Been fun reading up on the machine and it looks like Youtube has the dvd broken down into segments there. Been watching that. I like how easy you can move around the live menu.

Update on the V3i.

My hunting buddies and I got out for a little target comparisons tonight and,

We compared three different signals all of which were first found by the V3i. The first was a bouncer,
having my machine set to 4H tones it sounded awful so I switched to 2F
and got a better sounding tone, but the VDI indicated trash, but it
turned out to be a mercury dime at 7" deep. The next signal gave a more
consistent VDI and sounded better (still kind of scratchy) in both 2F and 4H tones and it turned out to be a common date
wheat penny at 6" deep. Now the last target was also analyzed by the
V3i, DFX and my LTD. This time the LTD gave a better pinpoint, but the
VDI was terrible and sounded kind of scratchy (would not repeat very often even in 2F), I thought it could be a coin or a nail but it sounded like trash and the DFX agreed, it turned out to be a 1879 Indian head (slightly on edge) about 7" deep.

Did find out that coal cinder waste was also dumped at this site but many years ago. Pumping the coil usually causes the FEO meter to max out. I'm sure that affects the whole game. Our next trip to this site will demand more detailed settings adjustments. The only thing I didn't change was the frequencies (because the machine was very stable) and the ground balance which I think might just be where I need to focus a lot of my attention on. Now mono tone gave the most consistent sound but I find it hard to hunt in real trashy areas in mono tone mode. One thing I noticed was that the depth readings on my LTD were about 3" off on the high side. Each target read either 10 or 11 inches deep, not sure why that is either.
As a final note, the V3i gave the best audio of all three machines. And yes the V3i was turned off each time we compared signals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2010 12:30AM by markg.

We went hunting, yet again.
Learning a little bit more each time I hunt with the V3i buddy.
He has adjusted the range of VDI numbers assigned to his high tone indicator.
This has opened up the high tone responses to include more of the 3rd tone included in my LTD. On targets that are bouncing this allows a more consistent high tone. So I've changed the way I hunt. Been trying to either hunt 3 tone which will also open up my upper tone and also 2F, but for some reason the 2F tone doesn't seem to be as clear and consistent as I believe it should be. Dug a nice 1018 s wheat penny at about 6", but the sound was a long way from being a text book sound. It bounced from 55 to 70 which might be about normal since the older wheat pennies don't read like the wheat pennies from 40 up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2010 03:10PM by markg.

On the LTD the targets are not always clean and sharp some of the best relics are dirty sounding but it is all about getting the target to dig. You have to know your machine..You may want to try mono tone and a lower disc or try 4 tone and no disc. You may also find the ltd is not the best machine for you..I am testing the new G2 and it sounds off better then the LTD it is a one tone machine that splits the tone. Above the Disc number is a high tone and below the disc you set is a grunt for iron or for any target that fall in that range. So you use a lower disc of say 25 or below. Hits hard on the worst targets better then the LTD so far.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I have just had my LTD about 2 months now.
While using the F75, the targets were sharper, clearer and more consistent sounding than they are with the LTD in BP mode.
I have yet to find a single good target where I had hunted with the F75. I think that Tom's remark that upgrading to the LTD from the original F75 would give no advantage to a coin shooter, was correct.
Relic hunting might prove to be different for me, but that is still to be seen.



Lawrenzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the LTD the targets are not always clean and
> sharp some of the best relics are dirty sounding
> but it is all about getting the target to dig. You
> have to know your machine..You may want to try
> mono tone and a lower disc or try 4 tone and no
> disc. You may also find the ltd is not the best
> machine for you..I am testing the new G2 and it
> sounds off better then the LTD it is a one tone
> machine that splits the tone. Above the Disc
> number is a high tone and below the disc you set
> is a grunt for iron or for any target that fall in
> that range. So you use a lower disc of say 25 or
> below. Hits hard on the worst targets better then
> the LTD so far.