E-Trac and SEF coils

First let me say, since my purchase of the E-Trac, this is my first experience with DD Coils. I have the Sunray 8 inch coil also. But,I have read many times,especially on the Facory Pro Coil,that it falses more,off the edge of the coil. I have noticed this many many times in a heavy iron laden spot. I also have noticed this with the Sunray 8 inch coil but not nealy as bad as the Pro coil.
Ive read a lot of good on the 8X6. Ive read a lot of post on the 10X12 also, with it seemingly not that much deeper if not deeper at all than the Pro Coil;however, as Ive read,it seems to reduce the falsing issue.
Of course I know to reduce my sensitivity in these nasty spots. But....just wanting to know more,if they are indeed worth the purchase. Frankly,Im starting to get tired of these false signals,my concentration level and confidence level has fallen greatly. I like many things about this machine,but the falsing is terrible, so Im looking for ways to quieten it down before I give up on it.
Just wanting to know if the SEF coils help with the falsing.
Thanks
John

I have used the 6X8 SEF for maybe 10 hours or so on the E-Trac and really like it. It CLEARLY does better in iron than the stock coil as far as separation and ID'ing iron is concerned. You can check my videos on youtube to see this - earthmansurfer69
Yes, it doesn't false as much in iron nearly as much as the stock. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that usually true of most coils smaller coils compared to larget ones (if they both have a similar design)?

EMS

Thanks Albert. I agree, about the use of a smaller coil. Sometimes, Im not good with presenting my thoughts and I do apologize. I didnt mean to compare a small/large coil. But, having no experience and reading on the forums a great deal;Ive read some coils are hotter off the edge of the coil than others. And, to me at least, if that is true, wouldnt it in fact make it a coil you wouldnt want to use in a nasty trash littered site, whether it be iron or aluminum.
Just plain and simple, Im having much problems with the E-Trac in spots with lots of iron. And it may be, and Ive read this on forums, our ground stays saturated/wet during the winter, lots of rain.
Anyhow, Im wanting to know more about coils, and their effects on detecting, coils of the same size but different manufactors and why.
Thanks,
John

John --

I have and like the 6x8 SEF; I use it on my Explorer, and tried it on a borrowed E-Trac. Works well on both. YES -- the Pro coil is very "hot" on the edges, takes some getting used to -- ESPECIALLY when dealing with shallow targets. I have heard that the 10x12 SEF, even though larger than the 6x8 and close in size to the Pro coil, is said to be more "stable" than the Pro coil, less "falsy," though not really "deeper" than the Pro coil.

I will stress to you my experience, which is -- ESPECIALLY when the ground is wet and thus the iron very "active," you really can calm things down by lowering sensitivity. YES, you are giving up depth...but if the falsing is so bad that it's frustrating you, lowering sensitivity until the falsing is at a level that YOU can tolerate, will make for a much more pleasant hunt -- and likely a more productive one. I have found that (aside from maybe another coil type), sensitivity is your main tool you can use to cut down on the falsing, ESPECIALLY in wet soil, when it exceeds your "personal tolerance level!" You may sometimes need to adjust as much as 3-4-5 points lower, in terms of sensitivity level, at the same site on different days, depending upon soil conditions.

Steve

Thanks for your help and input on this matter. steveg, I understand, reducing sensitivity. I do not have a lot of time to hunt,work gets in the way,lol. Be glad when the days get longer and the times change. Yesterday, I kept manual sensitivity at 25,trying, attempting to listen for a weaker,deeper signal. I reduced it after a bit to 20.
I really need to come up with something to get my confidence level up. Since,Im having problems with false signals, and I read, somewhere, about the SEF coil being a bit calmer in iron, I was hoping to get input from some of you and I did.
But, I think,for now, I will just use the Pro Coil and 8 inch Sunray. Next time Im out in a iron filled spot, I will try reducing my sensitivity level down, until it stops most of the falsing.
If, I do this, do you think I need to increase the gain?? I generally have gain around 20, with deep on.
HH,
John

John --

As I understand it, sensitivity affects the "strength" of a signal that the machine will "permit" to be run through the discrimination circuitry; too weak of a signal, and the machine will choose not to "process" it. Gain, though, affects the loudness of the signal (depending upon the signal's strength), AFTER it has been "allowed" to pass through the discrimination circuitry. I am not sure if I'm using all the correct terminology, or explaining this perfectly, but I think I have the general idea correct. What I'm trying to say is, adjusting gain upward or downward only affects target volume of a signal AFTER sensitivity has determined whether that signal was "strong enough" for the machine to work with in the first place. SO -- let's say you have a weak signal being sensed by the receive coil, coming from a deep, 10" coin. If you have sensitivity set too low to let your machine deal with, and process, this signal, then no signal will report audibly to the user. Period. NO MATTER WHAT you do with the gain, up or down, you can't hear that signal (the machine already "rejected" it -- due to your sensitivity setting). IF, however, you have your sensitivity set high enough to process that weak signal, THEN you can adjust HOW LOUD it reports to you, by adjusting your gain. If you have your senstivity set high, then it is conceivable that a signal which is allowed to pass through the circuitry COULD STILL not be heard by you, if you set your gain TOO LOW. In this case, you would have effectively "turned the volume of the signal down TOO far," so that you would not hear the signal.

Point being, SENSITIVITY will adjust WHAT gets processed by the machine's circuitry, and then GAIN adjusts HOW LOUD a "permitted-to-be-processed" signal will report to the user. When you run your gain "maxed out," you will hear a shallow, large target at the same volume as you will hear a deep, small target. As you start adjusting gain downward, then that shallow, large target will remain loud, but the smaller, deeper target will begin to sound quieter.

Does this make sense? My point is, I think sensitivity is a better way to combat falsing. It is true that if the "falses" are "weaker" signals than the non-false signals, then adjusting gain downward CAN make the falses sound quieter, while the "real" signals sound louder. To me, though, this doesn't help that much, since all you'll be doing is making a "false" sound quieter, like a deep coin would sound, instead of a louder, like a shallow coin would sound.

Does this make sense to you?

Steve