In the field...Deus, Blisstool, and CTX 3030

Met up with Don Dodson today from North GA Relics. He brought the Deus and CTX up to play at my bullet hill testing site. We battled the rain for the first few hours of our hunt but it sure didn't help the ground conditions any...still bone dry and hard digging. Don spent about 95% of his time on the new Minelab and I got to run the Deus for a little while and mostly the Blisstool. Many thanks to Keith Southern for giving us some settings on the Deus to get us going in the right direction. Don plugged them right in for me and I was off and running with the Deus and had a bullet found within 15 minutes of being turned loose with it. That is an impressive little machine....it has some muscle. I would love to see how it would stack up against the Bliss if it had the larger coil. It didn't do that bad with just the 9" that's on it. Some of the deeper bullets I got with the Bliss, it couldn't quite get...it would give an occasional chirp but you have to remember that I didn't know zilch about the Deus and setting it up...I just had a few settings from Keith to go by and that's how we set it up to run. This was some of the worse dirt you are gonna find in Tennessee and I was just impressed that it could get down to 8-9 inches in it for bullets. It wouldn't give an ID number...just tones...but it would give a high tone on them.

I learned more on the Bliss than I did anything else. I had been struggling bad with dealing with good repeatable signals that would turn out to be iron nails. I got some suggestions from Daryn over at the UK Blisstool forum...and he noticed some of my settings were a bit off, according to how I was running my gain. So he gave some corrections with it...and I went out to give those a shot. Couldn't believe the difference it made on it for telling non ferrous from iron. Once I did those settings and heard what a bullet sounds like, I was off and running with it and calling my signals. This machine has similar depth to PI machines in this red dirt. It's still no GPX but by golly I think it will torque the doors off of a TDI now. No doubt it can in the iron rejection dept...and I believe it can best it on depth now. I'm REALLY interested in seeing what it could do with the 15" coil.

And now you might be wondering why I ain't said anything about the 3030. I didn't get to hunt with it...Don spent about 96% of his hunt time on that particular machine...and we signal checked everything. Once I got into the bullets, it showed us one thing....the 3030 ain't much different than the eTrac in this bad soil....and that wasn't too spectacular. I dug 9 bullets today....the Bliss could easily detect all 9 of them. The Deus got 5 of the 9, signal wise. The 3030 got 0 of the 9. Don had it set with an open screen disc pattern, running in what he called "combined mode"....which I'm not sure what that is to be honest....but I think he exhausted all settings he could think of to try on it, and the closest he got to a signal was an iron grunt on one of the bullets in which he said it was doing on everything. I was really hoping for a better showing for it there...especially with the manual GB on this one.

I was honestly ready to give up on the Blisstool after my struggles with the iron. Now I'm pretty sure I have a handle on it. I don't know how well I will do with it in a heavily infested with iron site...but I will say this. If any of you guys ever ran the Shadow X5.....the Blisstool reminds me most of that machine than anything else. The X5 was a good machine for around here....it had issues with iron but it had a language much like the Blisstool. But I will say this as well....the Deus will be my next detector. I think the Blisstool and Deus are going to compliment one another for a 1-2 punch. The Deus will be the machine of choice in heavy iron...and in trashy sites, and for just a seek n destroy machine for covering ground fast. Once you get in a site, and pick the goodies out with the Deus....the Bliss comes out as a cleanup machine to get the deep things just out of reach of the Deus. I'm scrapping up what I can to sell in order to get one. lol.

I have video of today's hunt as well...all of it is with the Deus and Blisstool though. I didn't do any filming of the 3030, as my particular time was spent with the Deus and Blisstool.

Good write-up! Thanks for sharing.

Hey Daniel...do you recall what Keith had you running via Don's input on the Deus? Did you stick in one program with specific settings, or did you bounce around from program to program and from settings to settings? I will say this, Keith knows that machine in and out! Let me know what came of it all if you can remember.

Much appreciated,
Randy

If Keith is catching up on this thread, maybe he can put forth those settings for us if you cannot remember.

Randy Kight
Richmond, VA

Sounds like a great way to test these machines in your dirt and that is what matters is what works for you. I have not been able to detect since my bone marrow transplant and it will be a year till I can go out and start again. I wish some of the new machines were also designed for schools and parks. But there is so much trash that it would be hard for some of these machines to to do well with all the pulltabs and bottle caps. When I did relic hunt I used my G2 and it did really well in iron but would be nice to see how it does against some of the new machines that hit the USA. Still wonder what Fisher/Tec will do to trump or catch up. They are in a good postion because they can read all of the forums and see what some of us are really looking for. It seems to me That the Deus and the Bliss are the front runners in new machines to try at hunted out spots or new relics sights...Of course it would always be nice to get Nasa Tom to give us his views. I am wondering what it will take for him to set down his Fisher and take on a new machine as a keeper. When you know your machine like he does it is hard to replace it with something that is going to be better so it has to really be something that blows him away...

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 05:34AM by Lawrenzo.

LCPM........ ((( I'm running a XP GMP now )))

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> LCPM........ ((( I'm running a XP GMP now )))

WOW... Have you taken it into that fort site you mentioned in your "rec ack F75" thread. What were the results ?

Yes........ and 'some' of my findings are reported in my XP Gold Maxx Power field test thread. As I gain more 'hard-evidence'...... I will report it .... in that specific thread.

What does "LCPM" stand for NasaTom?? I'm naive about much of these abreviations.
Great thread Daniel. It is good to hear that the Blisstool is working out in the red dirt. Of course, being a Deus owner, I am also pleased with the favorable results. I have been using a program that uses zero disc. 12 khz. Reactivity at 1. And two tones. To get it that way, ya have to get into the DISC expert mode and choose three tones and assign the first two tones with the lowest tone (200 khz) And then choose a break point, mine is 40. Anything from 40 up is a hi tone. My hi tone is 790 khz and my Audio response is on 4 so it will 'snap me out of a trance' if I hit a signal. I have three ringers buried at 7,8,9, and 10 inches and it hits them all. The 9 and 10 inch one doesn't get TDI numbers. I use this program for hunting away from the trash. When I am amongst square nails, I'll use a tweaked Deus Fast, or the second program (forget it's name) with a tweak or two depending on conditions. The factory sensitivity is 90 and I always try to run it up as high as i can take it. On my homemade two tone relic deep seeking program that I mentioned first, I run sens at 99 and hit EXPERT while the sens icon is highlighted and run the TX power to max....3. Perhaps a very small gain to be had, but it don't take much to recharge since the TX3 runs the battery down faster they say, and for little gain, they also say. And they are probably correct.
Anyway, good thread. Good hunt.

Tom I have to find your thread I did read it but I forgot what it said that happens to me a lot from all the drugs I have been taking for the cancer. It is good to know you are testing and will tell us all about your findings.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

KevinB --

LCPM is a reference to LowBoY/Lawrenzo -- it's another forum name Lawrenzo is known as. In the post you asked about, NASA-Tom was simply addressing Lawrenzo (who had suggested in the prior post that he wondered what it would take for NASA-Tom to start hunting a different machine)...

Steve

" I dug 9 bullets today....the Bliss could easily detect all 9 of them. The Deus got 5 of the 9, signal wise. The 3030 got 0 of the 9. Don had it set with an open screen disc pattern, running in what he called "combined mode"....which I'm not sure what that is to be honest....but I think he exhausted all settings he could think of to try on it, and the closest he got to a signal was an iron grunt on one of the bullets in which he said it was doing on everything. I was really hoping for a better showing for it there...especially with the manual GB on this one. "

What was the depth of these bullets?
And the CTX didn't signal at all?
What good is the CTX?

The CTX is good in the rain. Just joking.
It goes back to some machines do better in different types of soil than others.

Keep the info coming guys and gals....it takes time to experiment and learn your units and using 3 at one time must be mentally exhausting...Very informative and just because one unit found more than the other all comes down to settings-mineralization and just a proven fact some units just work better in certain areas and joining a club and finding out what works best in your area can be very informative also...
My take on the big 3 new kids on the block is learn one unit at a time as bouncing between 3 units although informative can be counter productive...
To quote the grand master Charles Garrett expect to spend X amount of hours on a unit to become proficient and with all the bells and whistles of todays units I feel that X factor has really grown as user friendly would not fit any of the above..

All well and good, but after a target has been found and marked with one machine and another machine is tried and can't find the same target tell a lot.
Actually the advantage is then given to the second machine.
Believe it or not my AT Pro has a hard time locating 2 targets in my test garden, but my Etrac can find them with basic settings.
Side by side comparisons are the way to go.

Mark, that red dirt kills most machines, I wouldn't worry much about it unless that is like your ground. FBS machines do great in most but not the worst mineralized soils. It is actually impressive, very impressive that the Deus worked there.
Daniel - what ground readings did the Deus (and other machines) give on that ground? Thanks for the report

Come from the perspective of a coin hunter - After using the Deus (only 10 hours) it was clear to me that it is acceptable but not great as a general coin machine (not that it doesn't hit coins, it just hits everything!). It's meant for hunting in iron moreso imo, coins and relics. I say that because the VID is all over the place in my somewhat iron mineralized ground and also because the ID cut out at 7" or so in my ground and most of what I dug beyond that with a good sound was garbage. The ID cut out on very small targets at around 3" as well. Perhaps using pinpoint or being able to hear the sharper shorter sound will stop me from digging those signals though. Sure the Deus and Bliss make a great 1 2 punch, but not for coin hunting, not unless you want to dig a lot of trash. If I was hunting plowed fields I could see the Deus (or the like) as being my main machine.

I still am attracted to the Deus and Bliss however, but being on a budget I won't be getting either anytime soon. Perhaps a Bliss some day to get beyond what my future CTX can't get at.

Albert



markg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " I dug 9 bullets today....the Bliss could easily
> detect all 9 of them. The Deus got 5 of the 9,
> signal wise. The 3030 got 0 of the 9. Don had it
> set with an open screen disc pattern, running in
> what he called "combined mode"....which I'm not
> sure what that is to be honest....but I think he
> exhausted all settings he could think of to try on
> it, and the closest he got to a signal was an iron
> grunt on one of the bullets in which he said it
> was doing on everything. I was really hoping for a
> better showing for it there...especially with the
> manual GB on this one. "
>
> What was the depth of these bullets?
> And the CTX didn't signal at all?
> What good is the CTX?

All well and good, but after a target has been found and marked with one machine and another machine is tried and can't find the same target tell a lot.
Actually the advantage is then given to the second machine.
Believe it or not my AT Pro has a hard time locating 2 targets in my test garden, but my Etrac can find them with basic settings.
Side by side comparisons are the way to go.

To a point Mark indeed side by side comparisons are good.

Garrett with the exception of a GTI2500 in all metal that ID's were never depth monsters and of machines I have used Explorer series has the best guts of them all.
Having said the above have to admit Garrett for the bucks produces good units and next time at a multline dealer just compare the prices of the two mentioned and a light will go on. Did I just hear you only get what you pay for....Indeed a Chevy will get you from point A to point B as well as a Caddy but in different fashion but at what cost...

theres a review of the CTX in the latest copy of the Treasure Hunting mag , and the reviewer reports the digging of foil signals ,aluminium can lids and nails ,so it appears it can be fooled by the usual junk targets

diggers Wrote:
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> theres a review of the CTX in the latest copy of
> the Treasure Hunting mag , and the reviewer
> reports the digging of foil signals ,aluminium can
> lids and nails ,so it appears it can be fooled by
> the usual junk targets

Clearly true but when you have a solid VID system, which many park hunters like, you will dig much less of it. And consider crown caps as well.

Of course it can be fooled its only a tool and for that matter only as good as the operator....

The thrill of the hunt and what lies beyond the next hill is what drives us if they made a unit that would deliver 5 silver coins and a gold ring everytime out methinks kiss the hobby goodbye as the thrill would be gone and for that matter wouldn't be much left over the next hill to be found...

Daniel, You proved my move to get a Blisstool was the right move. Got rid of my Etrac so I could get a real relic detector, " Blisstool".

Heh Daniel, We exchanged some emails regarding the 13" Ultimate coil you used on the Omega, as I have been considering one for my G2. Reading your post regarding the Blisstool, I am now thinking of holding off on the Ultimate coil and savinf the money towards a Blisstool. Can you share what your struggles have been with it and iron and what settings you have learned to improve the ID on iron with the Bliss? regards, Bill

Daniel, Private Message sent. I have noticed that I have sent several people private messages and I have yet to recieve any answer for those people saying that they recieved the messages. Hence, this public message. Daniel, please check your private message box when ya get around a computer and please acknowledge that you recieved my PM if only a reply stating: "PM Recieved." Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 09:17PM by Kevin B.

Kevin B Wrote:
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> Danile, Private Message sent. I have noticed that
> I have sent several people private messages and I
> have yet to recieve any answer for those people
> saying that they recieved the messages. Hence,
> this public message. Daniel, please check your
> private message box when ya get around a computer
> and please acknowledge that you recieved my PM if
> only a reply stating: "PM Recieved." Thanks.

Only once in the last few months did I get email notification of a PM, and I have received quiteva few. Also, when you get a PM the message on the screen (at the top) stays blue and is easy to miss. Tom - might want to tell the webmaster.

Albert

I assumed that there was a technical issue of some kind because I have sent a few PM's to folks that I am sure are gentlemen who would acknowledge that I even sent it, whether they agreed with it's contents or not. Although none where controversial.

Video from the hunt with Don:

[youtu.be]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="[www.youtube.com]; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm not savvy on the Deus...Don did all the programming for it with Keith's settings. I know it gave GB numbers in one field at 73 and in the field I videod, it was 78-79. I'm not sure what that means though. It would give audio indication of a signal and sometimes on the shallow bullet it liked to give numbers in the 90s. I was just shooting for a signal at all and not going by numbers.

You can see what depth most of the bullets were at...my shovel head measures 12 inches from tip to hilt...most were 8-10 inches deep. Deepest one was 12 inches or so. Shallowest one about 6 inches. Note I finally got a pinpointer. LOL some guys were complaining that I needed a pinpointer to save time.

Note this....I made some changes with the Blisstool and was running the gain at minimum. Still getting bullets down to 10-12 inches with it set like that. That is very respectable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 08:59PM by Daniel Tn.

Maybe Keith Southern will chime in and give the settings. I certainly am not the Deus user that Keith is, but I think my two tone deep mode would have hit a little harder on them. Plus, after watching NasaToms DVD, I am an advocate of scrubbing the ground with the coil if possible. Although the XPDeus manual states to NOT scrub the ground with the coil, I find that I get clearer signals in my test garden and in the real world.
Great video. Well done, and informative. Maybe a Blisstool is in my future. It sure hits those signals a lot clearer and repeatable. That is a sweet sound that it makes. (by the way Daniel, you got a PM)
PS> whats the name of that place again where you get your detectors??? Do they have the Blisstool model that you have got in stock?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 09:15PM by Kevin B.

To my knowledge, nobody has them currently in stock. I sent a few folks to Don to get them and he ended up selling his demo model to one of them. I hope Keith don't mind...here are the settings he sent me that we used. We tried bouncing between the 12 khz and 4 and 8 khz on some of them to see if it made a drastic change in target aquiring but it didn't seem to make that much noticible difference:

-------------------------------------------------------

If it's an open area .not alot of iron around then 12Khz works well for all conductor's..buttons and bullet's..
keep the reactivity at 2 or even 1 for alittle more depth if no iron is around...if there's alot of iron use 2-3 reactivity...

I keep the silencer on -1 for a more raw report of the target...At -1 it get's no filter's on the signal...

Set disc at about 5 ..2 tone low tone will be 202 hz and high tone just put it as high as it will go ...like 700 hz I believe it is..

Ground balance I use pumping just pump coil up and down and it will set it for you...it will show the actual setting and the ground reading while running so you can tell if you need to readjust...run it alittle negative to get depth ..hot rocks will have a double wah wah sound...

Real deep target's can sound like ground noise till learned you will also get a slight iron buzz on the signal on deeper target's.....Depth is about like a T2 s.e. in disc when on 12Khz...the 4 khz is the deepest for bullet's but takes awhile to get accustomed to the deep sound and get the sweep speed right..bullet's past a foot are able to be found but takes more time to learn that sound and nuances to get them...I can get a burried quarter at 15 inches ..one of the few machines to hit it without chasing iron also...8 khz does well on bullet's also and is easier to learn on till attacking the 4 khz finicky mode...deep but finicky..

No notching.\

Sens about 90 or so ...

Set iron volume about 3 ...Audio response at about 2-3..that's the audio amp...if it's at 5 deep stuff sound like surface stuff..2-3 gives it modualtion/depth perception...

The slower you set the reactivity the slower you can sweep the coil and get depth...ultra deep target's will be heard at zero reactivity.. 8 or 4Khz -1 silencer slow sweep...

If you get into alot of iron and want to test it...use 12 or 18Khz 3 reactivity, silencer 1-2 and 2 tone... and look out !target's will come out of the iron you thougth were not there...

Good Luck

Keith

---------------------

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the 3030 ain't much
> different than the eTrac in this bad soil....and
> that wasn't too spectacular. I dug 9 bullets
> today....the Bliss could easily detect all 9 of
> them. The Deus got 5 of the 9, signal wise. The
> 3030 got 0 of the 9.

That says a lot right there, as I haven't really heard the Deus was all that great in mineralized ground (?) than a Minelab. You are saying something real different here then the gist of what I always thought, so it appears even with the additional ground balance feature of the new Minelab it isn't really a watershed moment. Thus far what I've heard is that in some very bad and thus rare to most people grounds this extra ground balance feature would get better ID at depth, if not actual depth, than other Minelabs. Now I have to re-think that notion even, or at least wonder like I've been exactly how well a GT, Etrac, or Explorer will do in depth against it if they are using a good aftermarket coil such as the 12x10 or 13" Ultimate. Thanks for the excellent detailed post. This is the stuff I like to read!

I am sure that there are a lot of people dissapointed that there favorite machine was not keeping up with the Blisstool. But you have to remember that the Blisstool only discriminates out iron. It is really designed more as a relic detector. In modern trashy sites the CTX and the Deus would probably produce more finds at the end of the day.

swmomark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sure that there are a lot of people
> dissapointed that there favorite machine was not
> keeping up with the Blisstool. But you have to
> remember that the Blisstool only discriminates out
> iron. It is really designed more as a relic
> detector. In modern trashy sites the CTX and the
> Deus would probably produce more finds at the end
> of the day.


My takeaway from Daniels report was that the Deus was the better all around machine between it and the ML for offering good discrim in trashy environments AND being able to at least report a target in bad soil. I would imagine in benign soil the ML and XP would be just as good, but from my viewpoint, why buy a machine that has limits in reporting targets in bad soil when another/others don't seem to? As I would think that would offer the buyer more bang for the buck across multiple hunting theaters. Now if Daniels report had mentioned that both the ML and XP had reported all targets equally, then I would think differently, as to me it would then come down to ID and tones and what individual like/understood either. But again, if one machine reported a target and the second could not, what good are all the other second machines attributes, as without target report, ID, tone pitch, GPS, etc. don't really come into play. Like my old Landrover...best four wheel drive/articulation/ramp over/departure angles made, but it wouldn't start...

What am I missing when thinking this way?

Randy