Modding an Explorer or E-Trac to make it lighter

Well, if they will never make one, perhaps it will be done by one of us (and then copied). As I mentioned in another thread I parted with my CTX as I just didn't enjoy carrying around the 5lbs of perfectly balanced weight (and the bulk - only breaks down into two pieces). I also got rid of my E-Trac before the CTX as it was hard on my back (but it broke down into 3 pieces). I hate using swingy thingy's, so don't even mention it!

Anyway, I'm wondering if there is a way to take off the head/face of an Explorer or E-Trac and put it on a straight rod and wire it to some batteries, ideally under the elbow area. It looks like you can do it with an Explorer XS as look at what this guy did with his on Ebay.co.uk! (Wow, he sure did a number on it). - [www.ebay.co.uk]
Once that link is dead you can still see in the pic below that he completely detached the head. I'm wondering if we could do the same with an Explorer SE or E-Trac. Anyone care to guess as to how much weight we can save with the above mod? How much better balanced we can make it? Are all of the electronics in the "head" with just a wire running to the batteries to make a mod possible? Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Albert

There have been many modded units already done. I have to say that is one ugly mod. The problem is getting the pods off the SE, Etrac, and some of the Explorer II. They put glue on the pod and I haven't found a good way to get it off. I don't want to cut the pod like many of the guys do when they waterproof the units. I'm all set with parts except for the glue problem. I've even got the Li Ion batteries.

I modded a XS to a straight shaft a few years ago and it was ok, not sure how much weight it saved, but it was better balanced and felt lighter with the batteries under the arm cup. I used AA batteries, but some weight could be saved by going to AAA's at the expense of shorter batt. life. I never weighed it but I think the alum. I used was lighter than all of that plastic.

Heres the problem if you wish to use the stock coil...no matter how you do it...it will be nose.. heavy.....some guys have but going to the 8inch or 5 inch going to lose a lot of depth...another problem kiss the rechargeables goodbye as you have to use 8 AA batteries..By the way a 1266 or 1265 battery pod works great......
Don't know about the weight but less face it the 1266 is 4 lbs..but ergonomics allow you to hunt long hours with it...and the same is true with a modded Explorer with a 8 inch coil...Heck anything would be more ergonomic...super electronics in a ton of bricks syndrome...

Where's Keith Southern? He's the man when it comes to mods and he has done numerous Explorer mods.

i made mine a hip mount for mine,,,,

Till Keith shows up, Albert:

[www.findmall.com]

Thanks for the replies. Well, it looks like Keith got his explorer around 3/4 to a pound lighter, as Minelab says the Explorer XS weighs 3lbs 8oz without batteries, so I imagine with batteries it might be closer to 4lbs. More importantly the balance problem was improved upon. As Dan said, the somewhat heavy stock coil can kill balance, almost requiring more weight under the elbow to solve this (I wish another company like Detech would put out a lighter aftermarket 11" coil). Dan - Yes, balance really helps, but after having the CTX, I'd still rather it weigh 4lbs (but ideally 3) rather than 5. Your injuries end up feeling that weight eventually. Steve, thanks for that post by Keith, really really nice mod. Would much rather have had an E-Trac built on something like that. I wonder if I should go for an Explorer SE with Pro Coil rather than an E-Trac though. I should have an X-Terra 705 with the 10.5" 7.5kHz coil in a few weeks, so I'm going to see how that does on depth in my somewhat iron mineralized ground before doing an FBS mod.

Robert - Thanks for the info about the glue. Anyone have any ideas to get that off? I might start looking for a cheap E-Trac or Explorer and I wouldn't mind cutting up the rod as long as the head remains in tact. Perhaps we could use one of those nice aftermarket straight shafts and mount the head up top the hand grip (as in #3 below, lower down the mod list).

Any info on taking apart the plastic upper end of the detector (to get at the batteries and cables) would be appreciated.

If nothing else this thread can be of help to some people looking to mod their units. On other forums links are often not allowed outside due to sponsors, so at least here we can link away. Here are some links I have come across:

1. Explorer Waterproof Mod - [www.findmall.com]
2. Explorer Shaft Mod - [www.minelabowners.com]
3. Explorere Mod - (Keiths mentioned but also another nice mod) - [www.metaldetectingforum.co.uk]

Albert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2012 10:09AM by earthmansurfer.

Lots of good info and again waiting for Keith to chime in as he has done a lot of experimenting. Even seen one with a rechargeable tool battery that probably did away with the coil heavy issue as it was heavier and offset the weight of the coil.... but don't remember where. Nothing against the X-terra 705 as one fellow mentioned but well its just not an Explorer. Ken Herre was the king of modding the Sov. but don't know if he modded an Explorer. Nothing against belts or straps but they transfer the weight to the larger back muscles and a sore arm is one thing but a bad back can put you in a wheelchair.All I can say this hobby has the brightest guys when it comes to modding and looking forward to some more input...

many have asked the same question ,its a too built in system to do much chopping ,shame ,as for many users its just too heavy to lug around .

Hi Albert, I can get the pod off but don't want to have cut the bottom of the pod as Keith did. If a guy gets pass the glue the mod becomes reversible. Also using the LIPO battery cuts another 4 - 5 oz.

The SE handle angle is what bothers me, I'm strong enough to swing the weight.

I'm ready for any help with the glue. I've got picture of the squiggles of glue they put in. What a pain in the ---..

Albert, the Xterra can be a decent detector provided one knows its strengths and weaknesses.
Keith can tell you more than I can but I liked the 6"DD high freq. coin for hunting in the nails.
I had the 10" MF DD coil...maybe I didn't give it enough time but I liked the Explorer w/stock coil better.
I think Keith uses mostly the High freq. DD coils with his.
To me, the stock coil on the Xterra isn't that good because the slow recovery is magnified.
The DDs on the detector helps out in that regard.
In my mind, overall, it is not in the same league as FBS.
The prospecting mode is nice for sizing up targets in ground, I always used it without the iron mask engaged.

Guys - I think I am going to make this my winter project. My friend will probably sell me his E-Trac as he has a CTX right now. I will need help and suggestions taking it apart, unwiring it, rewiring it, buying the box for batteries, buying batteries, etc.

So, which straight shaft "kit" should I buy. I notice a straight shaft for the X-Terra on Ebay.com. Any ideas.

Work with me on this project please! eheheh It will be a group effort.

Albert

Jeeze, when we get done, it may look like the Three Stooges plumbing system.

Just saw the thread Albert...

If it's your first stab at a mod it's a more involved one for sure...

One thing of the utmost importance is to make sure you mark the wires going to the connector...they are snow white ..I marked them each with a number corresponding to the coil connector pin's...

If you cut them loose without marking them you will play heck trying to figure out which one goes to what pin on your new housing connector...

Also there is a couple fo RF chokes in side on the transmit and recieve wires so put them back on before soldering the wires to the connector..

going down inside the handle is the speaker wires and power wires...so about 5 wires...

You nned a mechanical type headphone jack...the radio shack type wont work...you need one that breaks contact when a headphone is plugged in...its the type most detector use but not the type you can get at the shack...We have to have this type to unhook the speaker when the phones are plugged in..If you dont get one the phones and speaker will run at the same time....Dont want that!


If I do another one I am thinking about carbon fiber shaft.The handle is still metal ...Very important...no wiggle ...plus more ridged for mounting the headunit to.



The whole reason for the mod in the first place is the weight so lets keep um as light as we can...In the long run the comfort will out 'weight' the cost..No Pun intended!

the xterra lower rod will also fit into the carbon upper shaft and thats great because you will be able to use all the etrac coil without modding a lower ro to fit the width of the ears of the coil's...xterra lower rod is a perfect fit...


If I was going to use any other metal rod the Xterra upper rod would be first with a whites straight rod in the middle...Why xterra? well it has a way to mount to the top of the rod...it has 2 threaded screw holes already in place...Albet not the strongest permant mount but when trying different things it works quite well..I like to weld the finalized version's into place...


Battery boxes?? that were it gets tuff...

And thats why when doing mod's you need to be on the constant look out for parts if and when they become availabe..For me the ultimate would be a 1266 box....It the best design I have encountered ...Fool proof and built to stand the test of time...battery packs for it are easily found and with the new high tech rechargables now days you can keep a couple extras on you incase of power failure on a hunt...

When i am out shpooing with my wife I usually stroll through the stores looking for objects to use in a mod...you would be surprised what you can come up with if you start really looking at items for sale....

I have made detector stands from handles off cheap tool boxes...Got rods from broom's....handgrips of High quality off of discounted car washing wands that go on garden houses..Etc Etec...Ace hardware is awesome for all the screws, bolts,connectors they have....Bushing's are hard to find ,,,ACE has them!

Also and just me personally on this....You want a clean looking mod....Take your time...study thing's out before cutting or drilling or snipping...most of this will be measure a half dozen times cut once....

I am also anal about straight poles and suchcant stand a crooked meter or a cocked sideways coil....but thats just me some dont mind...But if I hunt with a machine misaligned it actually drives me mad..LOL!

I have the ultimate mod in mind and it would invole a Etrac!

I will try to help with what I can if you need any help fire away.

Good LUCK!

Keith

Hi Keith,

Thanks so much for the advice and such. I am no electronics Guru but my neighbor is and I give his kid free English lessons, so I got the wiring and soldering help covered - Check.
Winter is almost here so I am in no rush. We can take this really slow.

Let me (us) keep all the questions and answers here. Perhaps when all is said and done, we can add an edited version to the end. I will try to take pics along the way to aid - if possible for anyone to do this now, please do, or even draw a rough diagram of an E-Trac with locations involved for cutting, etc! Anyone jump in here as well, the more experiences, tips, etc. the better.

So, going in order AND further asking you about some of your points:

1. What is the best way to remove the E-Trac "head" from the stem. It looks like it is glued from what others say?

2. Do I have to crack/cut/dremel the body (part between head and batteries) open in order to get to the wires and/or battery area? I'm at a loss as to how to label the wires since I don't know how to get at them. (If I have to destroy the parts I won't use that is ok as I don't plan on reversing things. The easier the better.)

3. Where exactly are the RF Chokes? (I believe you are talking about something to reduce EMI or the like?)

4. Carbon Fiber Shaft - How much weight does this save? I would imagine you can run wires through the handle and drill a hole in the shaft, without weaking it, and run them to the batteries? Does is break down or is it perhaps collapsable? I do like, and was leaning towards, a straight shaft X-Terra design.

5. Relating to 4 - Would it be possible to use a Deus collapsable rod outfit, in some way, or is it too light? Expensive yes, but also very portable and attractive. I realize there would be a problem where the head is mounted (as that shaft come out the back past where you rest your elbow) and potential problems running wires there as well - perhaps that top section would no longer move and the rest would collapse. Not sure about how the coil could or if it would mount.

6. 1266 Battery Box - I'll keep an eye out. I could probably do this step later in the process? I'm thinking Lion batteries here, unless the weight of regular rechargables will help with the balance.

7. Is it a good idea to try to balance the completed detector by putting some lead weights in the shaft under the elbow section or does that defeat the purpose?

8. Is there anything that we might want to add, you know - non standard equipment, that we haven't already thought of?

9. Overall, and I don't need this right away, if you (or anyone with something to add) could refine what you have said with the answers to what I have asked and go into more details, to be sort of a how to kit, that would be great. Again, no rush as this is my winter "hobby" this year.

I agree on getting it to look great - I don't want this to be a hack at all. BTW - My mom is coming from America to visit me in Germany next month, so perhaps she can bring some much needed supplies, ideas? Anyone want to give me a killer deal on an E-Trac head with labelled wires and such? eheheh

Thanks so much Keith and everyone,
Albert

Hey Albert to get the glue off ...You will have to check and see if it's glued first...If it is you might man handle it off not sure?...Mine did not have glue...

It's probably some sort of super glue ,it sort of melts plastic...but it's been my experience that most glue and plastic dont bond well...If it were me I believe I would spend a couple of hours just wiggling on it while watching a t.v. slow and easy and SOMETIMES thing's come apart...lay it in the sun for awhile let it get warm...That might be the biggest challenge if you do not want to cut the handle apart...dont be aggresive though you can crack the housing doing this also...remember slow and easy when modding...

If you can get the handle out of the housing it is held together with screw's.. remove the screws and it seperates into to pieces lengthwise...

I would not use a deus handle...it's is telescoping and really dont see away to get the wires though the handle without them getting caught in the slide...

The carbon fiber is a one piece then lower rod so about 36 Inches long or so...Weight not awhole lot but you will noitce it after a few hours....it's not a neccesity but while you are doing it it would be the ULTIMATE set up but an exterra rod is also nice..

I would probably not do another one on a S rod Like I did...it put a little to much strees on the wrist like that....

Be careful when working iside the case...lots of I.C's in there...static chages can kill them so try not to touch on the board ...A static wristband will help but grounding it to the etrac is next to impossible..but if you use a metal table it can help to ground yourself to the table with the wristband...


R.F. chokes are just that... they reduce 'choke' air noise....like other detectors or cell phones or electrical noise....their made of ferrite and look like a donut...they slide on to the wires that go to the coil connector..

Keith

Thanks again Keith, just one question - What do you mean lots of I.C.'s in the case? I thought the electronics are all in the "head" (or face) of the E-Trac and I didn' think I had to open that part up. I didn't even think I had to worry about the coil wires as the coil just plugs into the back of the face (I don't have an E-Trac anymore so forget.) Basically, looking at your Explorer XS mod, I thought it would be very similar.

Point taken on static charges - I never even thought of that (been a while since I have worked with electronics).

Albert

I.C.'s...are integrated circuit's...Little black rectangles with plug's on the bottom,, the slip into socket's...they do not like static discharge..it will destroy them in the right circumstances...


you have to open the case up Albert...there is 3 boards inside there... they are piggybacked together and attach to the front face plate...Look sliek a sandwich..When you take the screws out of the back of the housing the faceplate will lift out and the 3 circuit boards (Full of I.C.'s ) will be attached to it...

The wires that go to the coil connector are soldered to the back board...DO NOT TRY TO UNSOLDER THEM FROM THE BOARD.....they run to the coil connector that is encapsulated inside a rubber boot on the inside of the handle...you wont get the runbber booth off the connector without cutting the boot off,,,then you can unlsoder the wires off the connector...BE SURE TO MARK THE WIRES....you have to get to the solder points on the connector instead of cutting the wire....if you cut the already short wires you will handicap yourself lengthwise.. and you need as much as you can get to hook up the connector to the back of the housing and keep the R.F. chokes inplace...so the rubber boot must be cut apart ...it must be put on hot because it is formed around the metal connector...very rigid durable design ...

the etrac and explorer use the same plug inside the rubber boot inside the handle...

Keith

Interesting, I wanted to do this also. I wanted to at least hip mount it but I can not find a good extention cable. I tried to make my own but it did not work.

As an addendum I would look for an inexpensive second run Sep 0 XS to experiment with as newer Explorers could be an expensive throw away if something goes wrong in the mod. I know we have some talented guys with proper tools and expertise and well all thumbs guys without the proper tools so have a backup expertise guy in mind if something goes wrong along the way, Having used a 1266 battery box must say it works well and are like hen teeth to find and if you plan on using the stock 10.5 coil it will be nose heavy no matter the mod as its the nature of the beast...
In my estimation Explorer series for silver coins has certainly one of the best guts in the business mounted in a heavy poor ergonomic package and certainly if someone comes up with a improved mod do share it with the forum as it looks like Minelab is not going to help along those lines..

As long as the coil wires are marked, and you leave wires so you don't have to solder on the board it looks fairly simple. The new Li IOn pack is out for the Minelabs that should save 4 - 5 oz. I need the new handle angle for my SE, hence the new rod set up. Is there a weight savings in changing to weights rods?

For balance I wanted to offset the pad farther back on the handle. But then I would have to use my left hand to pin point. This mod should work for the pinpoining but I haven't found the sensor yet.

Xterra gets touch sensor pinpointing mod in handle.
[metaldetectingforum.com]

Dan - I was just wondering the same thing - "It might be coil heavy." It isn't a very heavy coil but there will be next to no weight behind the guts/face of the unit. It will weigh and balance essentially like an X-Terra w/ 10.5" coil - 3 pounds and a little nose heavy. I know I can do the mod with the help here and from my neighbors, but it is a lot of money to spend (used E-Trac, X-Terra upper and lower shaft, White's mid shaft, Li-ion batteries, battery box, misc.) I figure 1000-1200 Euro. Perhaps an Explorer II mod might be a better first try...

Looking at Lithium ion batteries, I think I found a very inexpensive solution. You can buy those CCTV Li-ion batteries from China with a charger for 15 Euro shipped. The specs are 12.6V & 2800mAh. (Roughly 3"X2"X3/4" - SMALL!) I don't see any other electronics specs. Is this enough as far as specs go as it is essentially identical to the Li-ion for the E-Trac. Here is a link - [www.ebay.de]

Yes Albert it can be expensive....

I lucked up and got a really nice XS Explorer for like $250.00 so if I destroyed it I would not have to think about it for the rest of my life...

I want to do an Etrac mod like I outlined earlier using carbon fiber...But the price they demand used I will probably have to wait a few more years....Maybe Minelab will do it for us SOON..You never Know...

Keith

I looked into those carbon fiber rods. I believe this is the company - Anderson Shafts - [andersondetectorshafts.com]
The problem, for me anyway, is that the X-Terra rod is 31.5" long, which means you can't pack it up in a backpack. Not a problem for most, but essentially like the CTX in that it is long and after you connect the lower rod, you have a 2, not 3, piece detector.
I did email them regarding the possibility of having the rod separated into two pieces, but have not heard back.

That last point you mentioned Keith does have me thinking. I wonder if Minelab will have a lighter E-Trac come out. The CTX is a great machine but it's performance is not at all substantially better than the E-Trac. And, it's cost is extreme for most. And it weighs alot, not exactly a new and sleek design. I do wonder if sales are not all that great right now, in particular considering the economic conditions.

If Fisher does indeed come out with a lightweight CZ machine with DD coil and it is below the price range of an E-Trac (which I suspect), they will absolutely hammer sales of the E-Trac. I imagine whatever it is they have near ready for release, and I know they have something, will be worth the weight. (I just love the FBS sounds so hopefully Fisher offers some sound options if a new CZ is on the horizon.) If Dave J. can make a cheaper Omega do what it does, I can only imagine him pulling technology from it, the CZ's and F75/T2's to make a machine that will be called the Fisher EG... for End Game

Albert

I dont think you will ever see a FT machine sound like a FBS machine...They are unique in their transmission method's.. even a CZ is totally different...

But I think maybe just maybe we will see some sort of FBS in a light Xterra style set up...I do think that is doable...if they can get the battery system down to 6 volt's vs 12 volt's...

It's doable but it requires a revamp and how much will codan allow the hobby department to spend...?I dont think the 3030 has reached the status they hoped for...Wrong economy for a 2500.00 metal detector....

FBS has it's place in the arsenal's of many but even 1500.00 is pushing it .....I think it's the limit price wise to be thruthful.Maybe a stripped down 3030 will fill the gap?

take away the waterproffing and gps and sell it for 1500.00 and drop the etrac would be a thought...

Keith

Problem with a carbon fiber rod especially if its one piece it just gives too much unlike a two piece metal and fibre rod..With lightweight aluminum rod feel the weight difference would be minimal but would give a much more stable rod and not the swingy carbon rod. ...Certainly not being picky but just trying to add to make a stable unit and every little bit helps....Bunch of good minds on this forum and indeed any more knowlegable info appreciated as indeed a lighter well balanced Explorer is on the wish list of a lot of Explorer users..
I speak from experience as I owned a modded one and even added a 1266 battery box but the swingy rod and nose heavy stock Explorer coil wasn't comfortable for me so it hit the classifieds...

I can't get the pod off without screwing it up. I'm about to give up. It would have been great, but I'm not cutting it up.

Hey Dan not sure if you have had the newset interwoven carbon fiber rods ...they are way more rigid than the regular fiber rod's...They are stronger than aluminum

there is no wiggle feel to it..

these newest additons have come along ways in the last few years...they even build car wheels out of it it's stonger than aluminum..even steel..

Keith

OK guys, step one was taken - I purchased my friends E-Trac at a pretty good price - 800 Euro. Picked up the 13" Detech and 6X8SEF for 200 more. Minelab is shaking in their boots at the thought of a light weight E-Trac. ehehehe
I can't dream of swinging a non modded E-Trac so I'm going to try this mod.

Keiths following comment was the deciding factor for me - "I dont think you will ever see a FT machine sound like a FBS machine..."

Some points/questions thus far;

- I think I should just use standard rechargeable batteries (The eneloop 1900mAh) as I don't want to save weight in the back. That is where I want it. Agreed? I won't be able to find a 1266 case by all accounts. So I will have to be creative. Suggestions welcome.
- I am going to go with the X-Terra back end and the short front stem. I hear the regular front stem is just too long and I'm only 5'11", so that should work. Agree?
- Connecting the X-Terra stems together - Whites is the only way to go? I wonder if the stem widths are somewhat standard.

Thanks guys,
Albert

ps - Detector isn't here yet so anything you come up with as far as taking it apart that hasn't already been mentioned, please chime in.