.

Harold --

I have seen you post this opinion here before. I have never commented, I don't believe. This time, I will.

To some degree (not all), I disagree with you and shoveler.

Where I agree is, you DO have to be conscious and cognizant of where you are -- and what perception you may be giving to others. BUT -- you can't please everyone. Just because someone THINKS I am "tearing up the park" with that "big shovel," doesn't mean it's true, and I invite them to come talk to me about it, if they have concerns.

Now, if I am hunting a place where I have reason to believe someone may have issue with my tool, I try to be cognizant of that, and adjust accordingly (use a hand digger). I totally agree that "perception" can get spots "closed down." I also agree that in general, you don't want a video you produce and place online to "imply" to a "newb" that they should take whatever hole-digging tool they have in the garage and "have at it" at the local park, school or church yard, or neighbor's lawn. ANY video produced where an experienced detectorist is using a long-handled digger SHOULD have a paragraph, or short segment of video, EXPLAINING these ideas, and stressing "proper recovery."

WITH THAT SAID -- there's another side to this. My goal, with every dig, is to leave as little trace that I've been there, as possible. For me, especially on a deep coin dig (6-8" plus), in my dirt, in my location, I feel that the 38" shovel I use does the BEST, neatest, least-damaging job, when recovering a target. If I lived in the north, I would alter my approach some; fescues, Kentucky Bluegrass, etc, are DIFFERENT from the invasive Bermudagrass we have in the south. In the north, the best option (especially if conditions are dry) will often be a "trapdoor" type of plug, in my experience; this seems to lead to less "yellowing" of Bluegrass, fescue, etc.

BUT -- in the south, the full "plug," assuming Bermuda-type grass, and damp soil with high clay content, is the neatest recovery method I have found, for a deep target. Doubt this? Answer me this -- what type of tool is used on a GOLF COURSE PUTTING GREEN to dig the hole? A hand trowel? OR, a long-handled tool that cuts a deep, neat, perfectly round plug? In case you are not sure, I'll give you a hint -- it's a tool that cuts a very similar plug to my Lesche 38-D relic shovel. On a putting green, the grass type is either creeping bentgrass, in the north, or Bermuda, in the deep south. BOTH spread -- they are both a "stolons and rhizomes" type of grass. So, they quickly repair (in terms of any yellowing"), and in a week or so (unless it is real dry), that 4" to 6" diameter plug I dug is entirely invisible. It's invisible, because I pull out a perfect plug, recover the coin, and drop the plug right back into my hole...AND because the stolons and rhizomes spread right across and into the plug, with very little -- and very brief -- yellowing.

My point here is this -- I have always been very careful with my digs. That is just basic respect, and what is "right." On occasion, you "miss" your pinpoint -- a coin on-edge, or whatever, and in such cases, I have to work harder to "leave no trace." But the average coin dig, with my long-handled digger of choice, I think you'd have a hard time noticing any of my dig locations. SO, should I always opt to defer to what "someone" might possibly "perceive," at ALL times, OVER what actually allows me to make the cleanest, neatest recovery possible? Said another way, should I risk "messier" recoveries on deep coins, JUST SO no one THINKS I am being "messy" with my "big shovel," despite the fact that it's actually LESS messy for me?

Again, my goal is to perform as clean and neat of a recovery as I can, and I have chosen a specific shape of shovel specifically to accomplish that. And it's NOT the hand-held Lesche; that tool, for me, is for use only A.) on shallower recoveries; B.) in those places where I feel it is LIKELY that someone might "THINK" I was "tearing something up" with my "big shovel" (i.e. a very well-kept park grounds, for instance); or C.) for final recovery from an already-dug hole. But, with due respect given to the ideas that "you don't want to give the wrong impression to new detectorists," and "you don't want to give the wrong impression to the park groundskeeper," and "some places/towns/locales feel differently about detectorists than others," etc., I do not totally agree with your one size fits all, "tools-with-handles-should-never-ever-be-used" dogma.

To me, what is MOST important is one's personal responsibility to "leave no trace." If one has the basic decency to prioritize that, then you have gone a long way toward doing "what's right." I WELCOME the conversations I have with people who are "nervous" about my digging tool, and I ENJOY explaining WHY I use it, HOW I use it, WHAT my goals are (no trace), and WHY I think my tool allows me to accomplish that the best, AND -- I often use that "golf course putting green" example. I can tell you this...once I have had this conversation with someone, and they begin to realize that I CARE, and that I do what I do SO AS TO NOT "leave a trace," I have yet to see someone who does not "change their mindset" toward my approach, after such a conversation.

Respectfully,

Steve


Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shoveler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nice park to hunt.
> > I wonder if he loses it after someone complains
> ab
> > out a guy digging it up with a long handled shov
> el
> > ?
>
> Yep, figured if I said it People would get pissed.
> That's a No No from the word go as My Dad use to s
> ay.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2018 02:09AM by steveg.

I agree with Harold, shovels are a NO NO is public places like Parks, Town Squares and other city properties. These are the types of places where John Q Public is watching and they like to turn people in to the cops and get places to hunt shutdown for good........makes perfect sense to me........lolololol

I have hunted with my long-handled digger in local parks EXCLUSIVELY, for years here. I have had conversations with many different people -- including the park manager at the park closest to me, that sees the majority of my hunting time. He knows what I'm doing, and why. He's good with it. And -- for the most part, John Q Public (in my area, in most parts of town) does not have much of a problem with detectorists. Again -- it's important to know your area, and know who you are dealing with. One size does NOT "fit all," in my opinion.

The few times I HAVE had the cops called on me, it was NOT due to the digger per se, just due to "some guy out there in the dark" (I night hunt a lot). Once they come to see what I'm doing, and I explain it -- it's all good. The few times a "don't make a mess" or "don't leave any open holes" type of comment is added on at the end, I make sure to explain -- again -- the tools I use, and why...to reiterate that it is my INTENTION to "leave no trace." They've never had an issue, but instead they appreciate my efforts to be neat and tidy.

I know many won't agree -- but that's OK.

Steve



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2018 01:08AM by steveg.

I'm allowed to hunt all the city property with a 31" Lesche, but, this town is the only place I'll use it. I appear to be the only guy in this town that hunts according to the city workers When I visit an area outside of here, it's only my knife and a Raptor trowel. Every place is different and how detecting is viewed differs from area to area. This part of the world seems to be a really laid back place as far as rules of detecting are concerned. That's about all that's good about southern NM, well, the weather and maybe the people

It is on very rare occasion when my 27" cub shovel.....draws attention. Even in public parks. Cleanliness and attitude carries a lot of weight.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 10:54PM by Diggs4ever.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is on very rare occasion when my 27" cub shovel
> .....draws attention. Even in public parks. Cleanl
> iness and attitude carries a lot of weight.


That is the key Tom. Even though I have the city's blessing, I leave no traces and carry my shovel very discreetly at my side.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is on very rare occasion when my 27" cub shovel
> .....draws attention. Even in public parks. Cleanl
> iness and attitude carries a lot of weight.

Yup, I saw your video where you dug a giant plug for a pulltab...lol

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Geez guys. All you have been wanting to see for m
> onths now has been real world use by non Minelab s
> taff or testers. Someone posts a video of just th
> at, and you still find things to complain about.
> I thought it was a good snapshot of a typical tras
> hy modern park with realistic finds. If he would
> have done a video and had silver coming out left a
> nd right, you guys would have said it was all stag
> ed and his finds were salted. If he would have us
> ed a trowel and towel for recovery, you would have
> said he took too much time digging. If he would h
> ave cut out the digging and just went straight to
> the finds, you would have said he cut the camera a
> nd planted something in the dirt pile to make the
> detector look good. You would have complained if
> he didn't show the sounds of the detector, just th
> e same as some of you are now about him showing th
> em.

LOL @ Dr. Tones!

Funny, Brandon. I saw a post on another forum somewhere where someone was complaining about the lack of videos, and said something to the effect of "Even Dr. Tones, who at least did a couple of videos, even his videos dried up." I thought to myself, "gee, I WONDER WHY???!!!!" LOL!

I appreciate anyone who tries to help us out, and if the video is not specifically helpful for me and my mind/my style/my questions, then so be it. I appreciate the effort...

Not sure why so many online have become so negative...

Steve

It's not like ANYONE is going to be an expert with the EQ until they at least have more hours on it than the damn thing has actually be released now.....

Easy to be an arm chair quarterback...go make your own videos, and let the good times roll

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 10:53PM by Diggs4ever.

Diggs4ever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When It comes to videos people are going to critiq
> ue them I get pummeled as well on a daily. People
> love to critique. Also helps produce better videos
> in the long run and helps people be a better digge
> r. Never look at a critique as a negitive as it sh
> ows that 10% of perspectives not normally shown. M
> ovie industry goes threw the same thing with criti
> cs haha. I agree that blasting someone as a novice
> is no place for anybody to say but every comment s
> houldnt be "great job" etc etc. Creators for the m
> ost part have thick skins and know all this alread
> y. And if you don't well you will learn soon enoug
> h. Morel of story is embrace the negitivity if you
> are a creator and learn from it.
>
> P.S don't mind my grammar And spelling mistakes I
> do the best I can with my crappy spelling lmao. Ch
> eers Chad

Unfortunately, on certain forums, all you can say is "great job" because otherwise, it will be deemed negative and you will get kicked. A little while ago on this certain other forum, it was like a wild west free-for-all. However, it has been cleaned up and dulled to a point where there is no longer any hardcore discussions and turned into a "nicefest". Nothing really wrong with that, just a lot of smoke and no fire.

As a content producer, I am opened to harsh criticism. However, I expect nothing less.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 10:53PM by Diggs4ever.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Diggs4ever Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When It comes to videos people are going to crit
> iq
> > ue them I get pummeled as well on a daily. Peop
> le
> > love to critique. Also helps produce better vide
> os
> > in the long run and helps people be a better dig
> ge
> > r. Never look at a critique as a negitive as it
> sh
> > ows that 10% of perspectives not normally shown.
> M
> > ovie industry goes threw the same thing with cri
> ti
> > cs haha. I agree that blasting someone as a novi
> ce
> > is no place for anybody to say but every comm
> ent s
> > houldnt be "great job" etc etc. Creators for
> the m
> > ost part have thick skins and know all this alre
> ad
> > y. And if you don't well you will learn soon eno
> ug
> > h. Morel of story is embrace the negitivity if y
> ou
> > are a creator and learn from it.
> >
> > P.S don't mind my grammar And spelling mistakes
> I
> > do the best I can with my crappy spelling lmao.
> Ch
> > eers Chad
>
> Unfortunately, on certain forums, all you can say
> is "great job" because otherwise, it will be deeme
> d negative and you will get kicked. A little while
> ago on this certain other forum, it was like a wil
> d west free-for-all. However, it has been cleaned
> up and dulled to a point where there is no longer
> any hardcore discussions and turned into a "nicefe
> st". Nothing really wrong with that, just a lot of
> smoke and no fire.
>
> As a content producer, I am opened to harsh critic
> ism. However, I expect nothing less.

Yes exactly. Its seems nowadays everyone is above criticism. Maybe it's just the way it is nowadays. When I first started detecting I would always take it to consideration and try to learn or do things in a proper way to keep the hobby going and places I detect open as I want to keep doing it. I respect Tom and know He forgot more about electronics than I ever will.
But disagree with Him on using a shovel in a Park type setting. Even if the grounds keeper don't mind all it takes is one busy body to make a complaint and then a No Detecting sign will go up and the Grounds keeper or who ever will have to abide or be fired. Don't think He will lose His Job over Me. JMHO.

PUBLIC parks..... key word public, everyone has ownership, some thing they do more than others. I used to hunt a lot of parks in the Indy area. What i came to realize is what someone once posted on here. Someone...... just one someone complains its easier to put them off limits or say no than tell that ONE person its their part to and as long as they are as respectful to it as you are they can hunt. I too had a 24" modified spade. Videos and that one grumpy person.... now days cell phones. Even the beaches..... you dig a hole you are expect to completely fill it..... not just kick some sand in it as you move. Yet... right beside your hole is one dug that day 4' deep and left...... some beaches are now changing and making rules enforced by the police we now have patrolling those beaches.

We kind of got off the original post. Anyone who posts a video is subject to criticism...... ive not seen a perfect one yet lol. To me its more the information i may gain based on those criticisms of the MACHINE and the operators use. Theres the take away for me that i may put to use.... or make a decision on buying a machine.

Dew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2018 04:34PM by dewcon4414.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PUBLIC parks..... key word public, everyone has ow
> nership, some thing they do more than others. I
> used to hunt a lot of parks in the Indy area. Wh
> at i came to realize is what someone once posted o
> n here. Someone...... just one someone complains
> its easier to put them off limits or say no than t
> ell that ONE person its their part to and as long
> as they are as respectful to it as you are they ca
> n hunt. I too had a 24" modified spade. Video
> s and that one grumpy person.... now days cell pho
> nes. Even the beaches..... you dig a hole you are
> expect to completely fill it..... not just kick so
> me sand in it as you move. Yet... right beside y
> our hole is one dug that day 4' deep and left.....
> . some beaches are now changing and making rules e
> nforced by the police we now have patrolling those
> beaches.
>
> We kind of got off the original post. Anyone who
> posts a video is subject to criticism...... ive no
> t seen a perfect one yet lol. To me its more the
> information i may gain based on those criticisms o
> f the MACHINE and the operators use. Theres the
> take away for me that i may put to use.... or make
> a decision on buying a machine.
>
> Dew

I agree! I won't and can't produce a perfect video, because to me, there is no such thing. It is our flaws that makes us special. The day we stop being critical, is the day we stop caring.

Diggs4ever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When It comes to videos people are going to critique them I get pummeled as well on a daily. People love to critique. Also helps produce better videos
> in the long run and helps people be a better digger. Never look at a critique as a negitive as it shows that 10% of perspectives not normally shown. Movie industry goes threw the same thing with criti
> cs haha. I agree that blasting someone as a novice is no place for anybody to say but every comment shouldnt be "great job" etc etc. Creators for the most part have thick skins and know all this already.
> And if you don't well you will learn soon enough. Morel of story is embrace the negitivity if you are a creator and learn from it.
>
> P.S don't mind my grammar And spelling mistakes I do the best I can with my crappy spelling lmao. Cheers Chad

I hear you, although I'm not sure I'd compare us making youtube videos to the movie industry. Although movies are certainly subjective, people pay to see movies, and the studios pour millions of dollars into making their movies.

Me I make not one red cent from videos, not one red cent from field testing a detector either, as a matter of fact, I spend a great deal of money (gas, motels, etc) and as an engineer in Silicon Valley personal expense in the form of PTO and the time to put the videos together to contribute to the detecting community. My personal gain is the enjoyment of detecting, testing new things, and I enjoy putting the videos together (I really need better editing software though - lol). That said, I can understand from personal experience why some people stop doing them. Look at all the grief Brandon got when he posted his EQ find at Detectaval because....gasp there was a cut in the video (so people didn't have to watch him chasing the coin in the muck for so long), so that roman coin must've been planted!!! Then he stops posting EQ videos, and then everyone's like, well Brandon OWES us videos, where are they?

It gets ridiculous, but hell people still believe we didn't land on the moon, you simply can't fix stupid.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:

>
> I agree! I won't and can't produce a perfect video, because to me, there is no such thing. It is our flaws that makes us special. The day we stop being critical, is the day we stop caring.

True, but there's a big difference between constructive criticism and just being a dick....

Now if someone's obviously salting their finds with shiny silver coins in their videos, like we've observed here in the not so distant past, then that's something else entirely....

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
>
> >
> > I agree! I won't and can't produce a perfect vid
> eo, because to me, there is no such thing. It is o
> ur flaws that makes us special. The day we stop be
> ing critical, is the day we stop caring.
>
> True, but there's a big difference between constru
> ctive criticism and just being a dick....
>
> Now if someone's obviously salting their finds wit
> h shiny silver coins in their videos, like we've o
> bserved here in the not so distant past, then that
> 's something else entirely....

Bwhahahahah!

Anyway, you are right, there is a certain tone you have to get across, however, I have a tenancy to be to blunt. That's my bad.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
>
> >
> > I agree! I won't and can't produce a perfect vid
> eo, because to me, there is no such thing. It is o
> ur flaws that makes us special. The day we stop be
> ing critical, is the day we stop caring.
>
> True, but there's a big difference between constru
> ctive criticism and just being a dick....
>
> Now if someone's obviously salting their finds wit
> h shiny silver coins in their videos, like we've o
> bserved here in the not so distant past, then that
> 's something else entirely....

Hello World! Lmao.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2018 07:09PM by Harold,ILL..

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 10:53PM by Diggs4ever.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 10:52PM by Diggs4ever.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 10:52PM by Diggs4ever.

Yeah, Diggs. That video is pretty impressive...it would be impressive on LAND, as I don't think my Explorer would have seen that chain, even on land. But in the saltwater? Color me impressed.

Steve

My park rangers don't mind me using my shovel , ever so often they watch me hunt

i actually can cut cleaner plugs on the deep targets, but its all about looking like you were never there


The vdi numbers seem real close to another on the eox



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 02:05AM by Rob in (ca).

Couple more videos. Gary Drayton Beach Test. [m.youtube.com]

Gold Ring found with Equinox. [m.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 04:17AM by Cabin Fever.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 10:52PM by Diggs4ever.