Suggestions for a Pulse Induction unit? And a few questions about PI.

To effectively use a PI unit, does the area have to be totally free of all iron?? I know NOTHING about PI units and can only afford one in the $2000 range or less. I know that someone has suggested one in the past but I forgot what brand it was, I would LOVE to have a Minelab GPX 5000 but there is an invisible line that I don't want t cross. Namely, spending way too much money on a hobby.
With a PI unit, will I need to dig everything that gives an audio waver? I might not be asking the correct questions. I have some excellent permission to hunt on some land that is mainly cow pasture (but over the decades, it has been turned and planted in cotton...ect). Is hunting with a Pulse Induction unit sort of like hunting in All Metal mode with a VLF unit? Anyway, thanks for any feedback.

Hey buddy,Im not the pi guy,Im just getting started,but for gold only. I suggest you check out Steves forum www.detectorprospector.com....he has good reviews,really has taken a liking to the ATX. Of course Daniel has some good knowledge pertaining to your needs too. Good luck, Ray

Thanks Ray, I appreciate that!!!

No it doesn't have to be iron free. But you're asking for trouble if you were to take it to a bed of nails.

You can get great pulse machines for under $2k. I got my Minelab GP for $900 and it's every bit as deep as the newer GPX machines for civil war relics. With the new GPZ 7000 getting ready to hit the market, there will be a surge of used GPs and GPXs for some great prices. I think the Minelab pulse machines are tops in the pulse arena but question is...would you use it enough to justify having one or would it be a special use only machine. If the later...then you don't really need the Minelab unless you stumbled onto a awesome deal for the older GP or GPX 4500. Just my take.

They aren't like using a VLF in all metal though. Some have iron discrimination and most all will give you tone ID of some sort for size and conductivity. Think of them as a 2 tone machine and it gets easier to understand. Not used the ATX by Garrett but it seems like a good unit from what I've heard. The biggest complaints I hear about it are the weight/ergonomics are bad. And the iron discrimination doesn't work too good.

For my 'out in the county' Civil War sites, a PI unit would be my first choice. Just cow pastures. Occasionally, one will run into some iron. Since my 'in town' sites are drying up, (unless I can acquire some more permissions), I will do the majority of my hunting on a large farm near a major battlefield. And it has been hammered by all of the latest VLF's. F75SE's, Deus's with large coils, etc etc. And for about 25 years. The landowner is a very kind man who lets anyone hunt on him. I hunted for 6 hours today and found a half a pocketful of camp lead, a small corner of a harmonica reed, and a rivet. I was drop-dead tired at the end of the day.
These cow pastures have been plowed and planted over the years though. I have ever reason to suspect that alot of the heavier stuff fell to the bottom and out of reach of most VLF's. (mere speculation). I'll keep my eyes peeled for a used Minelab PI unit. This will take some serious thought because a PI unit is a serious purchase.
I have often wondered why they are so much more expensive than VLF machines. Probably got more circuits and stuff under the hood. (again, speculation).
Thanks for the insight, Daniel.

Hello KevinB,

I Have a GPX 5000, it will let you dig some REALLY deeeep holes. What you find at the bottom of them will be revealed once you get there LOL. For my needs....prospecting....I run a mono coil for the most sensitivity and depth. There is no discrimination using a mono coil. A DD coil will allow you to dial in some discrimination. Although if has a depth range it works at. If you have a deep target it will give a good signal. You start diggin and getting the coil closer to the target and it will blank out (null) on iron once you get within it's range.

But for an amazing machine that will tell you there is a target way down there.....GPX 5000 rocks.

MUST be used in low EMI areas.

Kenny

Not all PI's are expensive. Here in the U.K, a lot of beach hunters use the C-Scope CS4PI, it retails for a little more than a Fisher F2 over here.

Adding to the conversation about PI machines...I understand they are the goto machine for heavy mineralized dirt and saltwater. But what about mild/inert dirt? Do the PIs have a depth advantage (over VLF) (over FBS) in mild/inert dirt?
And if so, for those that are depth fixated, why not use PIs rather than VLF/FBS machines?

Yes, I understand the need for discrimination, but it is understood to be at the cost of greater depth. So for maximum depth--going where no man has gone before--why not bite the bullet and detect/dig/recover at greater depth with a PI?
Wouldn't the deeper good finds be worth digging the trash to get them?

And if the discrimination with a PI is flawed or missing, couldn't a large percentage of the trash be avoided by digging only the really tight/small targets, i.e., coin, bullet, and button size? (assuming the target footprint can be traced/sized with a PI similar to what can be done with a VLF)

And just a comment about depth here:
In a given area, minie balls are detected/dug at 5, 6, 7, 8 inches, but none deeper. Knowing the detector can find them at 10,11, 12 inches (or more), does that mean none exist in that stratum? They are all shallower or greater in depth than the detector can find them? Why are there none found at 9,10,11,12 inches? This is tilled agricultural ground, so some seasonal raising and lowering of targets is expected, but does not account for the lack of deep, but detectable, targets. At least I don't think so.

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

To get a sense what PI's are about the info at these websites makes a good primer for those wondering about PI's
What they can and cannot do.

There are two pages at this site: [www.nuggetshooter.com]

[www.geotech1.com]

[electronics.howstuffworks.com]

And read White's manuals and field manual [www.whiteselectronics.com]

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Thanks guys. All of you have given me much food for thought. And NCWayne, I, too, have noticed that most Minie Balls (in undisturbed woodlands) are usually well within reach of the VLF's. I may not be aiming in the right direction. I may just need to start scanning areas of this farm that don't have refilled holes everywhere. After all, during this battle, there were THOUSANDS of troops who deserted. I can imagine that they would fling off their jacket (so as not to get shots for desertion) and other accoutrements, and just keep running.......in all directions. It would be nice to run up on a button, and then another button, and then another, and then a few cuff buttons (indicating a thrown jacket). I'm just speculating. Just trying to get psyched up for my next hunt there (I make all day affairs out of them).
I DID find a round ball at a measured 11 inches (using my predator shovel as a measuring device) in a field that had been plowed alot over the last 150 years. Found it with my first XP Deus with 9 inch coil. That was a very satisfying dig. Just a bit of blackened tip on the horseshoe (of the Deus Depth meter) and faint blip.
The soil in this area was a mixture of loamy dirt and sandy silt (from the nearby creek). Talking about all of this makes me want to go swing and it's cold and almost dark outside. I've got it bad. Again.
Anyway, I DON'T take for granted all of the replies that you guys have made. I appreciate all of your feedback. Truthfully! Happy Detecting!! kevin

It does not have to be totally free of iron Kevin...But the less the better..dont take one into a nail riddien site and think you can pick buttons out with ease ...Not gonna happen...

but it needs some form of tone I.D. and that will happen through ground balancing to help you on harsh soil and also get some form of I.D....

The TDI works the best of all available Pulses in my opinion if you want to just find high conductors and not dig basically ANY iron..At a depth cost mind you...but in my soil I can still hear a 9-10 inch dime and not dig iron..Sort of cool just to do that...

now to hear a button and such more iron will be dug...

I like a P.I. but only use it in extreme dirt...its laborous...but the main thing is it takes the right mind set and proper sites to see advantages at the end of the day...

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2015 11:05PM by Keith Southern.

Thanks Keith. I really think that a Pulse Induction unit might not be practical for me, after reading all of the replies. They are costly. And I REALLY don't have enough good,, EMI free sites to use a PI on. Plus, and mainly, I am a bit impatient. I am a very simply guy who needs a very simple machine. I suppose that is why I clicked so well with my G2. In short, I am just trying to find ways to find relics on a huge property that has been hunted to death for 30 years. It's simply going to take alot of walking (and that is something that I could use). Besides, I have alot of different sits across the county.,....old homesites.....etc etc....where a VLF will be quite sufficient.
Now if I went to Culpepper VA every year.......a Pulse Induction unit (and learning it) would seem to be a necessity. But unit then......I reckon I better stick with what I know......or partially know. And that is the VLF's. And Keith, when I saw your VLF hit that 13 inch nickel........in that bad soil of yours.....well, that sold me right there. So I have a Racer on order. But something tells me that they are likely going to make a few tweaks before release. But I have every confidence in my F19 with 11 inch coil. There is something about that unit. It inspires confidence. I let my buddy use it the other day and he loved it!!!!! And he's an F75SE man through and through.
Thanks guys!!!! I learned all I need to know about PI's from your replies. I appreciate it.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The TDI works the best all available Pulses in my
> opinion if you want to just find high condcutors
> and not dig basically ANY iron..At a depth cost
> mind you

Keith, are you saying that the TDI has discrimination filter(s) and like VLF machines, the discrimination filter(s) costs depth?
If not, what depth loss are you talking about?


> but in my soil I can still hear a 9-10
> inch dime and not dig iron..Sort of cool jsut to
> do that...
>
> now to hear a button and such more iron will be
> dug...

Keith, with my VLFs I can reduce the amount of trash I dig by eliminating larger targets by tracing them or X-ing them out to eliminate all but small, tight targets.
Can this target size determination be done with PI detectors?

Thanks

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

There should be a lot of good deals on Gpx's right now...the gpz is soon to be released.

Sven1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To get a sense what PI's are about the info at
> these websites makes a good primer for those
> wondering about PI's
> What they can and cannot do.


Thank you, Sven1. I got the most help from the White's manuals, the field manual, especially.
Great info. Thanks again.

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

You can tell weaker tighter from shallower bigger...

As a p.i. is essentially running in all metal threshold based mode it paints a good audible picture..

Theres no disc its just deacy rates...so say a nickle holds a decay rate of so many milliseconds as a KNOWN...but a piece of iron of certian size can also have that same decay rate....so as you see theres no real disc ...things can report anywhere especially iron..

Iron on a P.I. is your worst enemy...


Keith