off topic..paypal rant/question

Ive bought and sold detectors on these forums for near 15 years. Not alot,probably 2-3/yr. Usually do money orders,but did sell a coil thru paypal,no problem. I just sold a detector. Dude asked if he can do paypal invoice,and gave me extra $ to cover their fees. I said yes. Well,it was a pain in the butt...AND the paypal aholes wont release my funds untill 3 days AFTER he recieves it! Is that normal? Screw them,from now on,I want money order. Also,does paypal charge you if you take the $$and close out your paypal account? I like things the old fashioned way....Ray

I have had my funds frozen on Ebay transactions until the buyer leaves a positive feedback. Paypal is a pain in the ass and the fees are high, but with today's scum I feel it is the safest way to do transactions.

I know thats why he chose to do it that way,and understand...but didnt know they would hang onto the money that long.

I have never had an issue with Paypal - they have rules and fees but they are not ridiculous but make sense to protect both the buyer and the seller.

1. When Paypal says they received funds for you - you know you have real money. Even money orders can and are faked.

2. From the purchasers stand point it is nice to know that funds are held in escrow till the product is delivered. Also if product is not what was sold you have recourse and it does work had to use as a buyer once when someone tried to scam me.

3. People can pay as a purchase or as a gift. Doing as purchase and paying you the 3% charge is fair - you get all the money you requested and they get some protection if the sale goes south. If it is someone you have dealt with before or trust based on feedback from others then using gift makes sense.

So be patient - they money is there and you will get all that you asked for. Just remember the rules are there for the protection of both parties.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Old ways are the best Ray!!-----You gotta be careful no matter how you do it now-a-days it seems (unless you know the buyer/seller).

PayPal and ebay tend to screw the seller if you aren't careful. Lots of loopholes for buyers these days.

If doing outside ebay transactions. I always request the buyer pay via SEND MONEY "To friends and family" GIFT option.
Buyer pays ebay fee not the seller. Instant release of funds. Less chance of having an issue after all is said and done.

Sending an invoice is like sending an PayPal invoice thru ebay, restrictions, limitations, and higher fees and can be a real pain in the .....

Oh by the way, now Paypal will give ebay purchaser and non ebay transaction purchaser 6 months to dispute the purchase for a refund.
Gift option always the better way to go for the seller.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

If you are from Canada like I am - you are going to get cheated by Paypal when they do the currency exchange from US $ to Can $...earlier this year I bought and sold using Paypal...transactions were is US $.....this is what happened - when I paid for the item - Paypal charged me 20% currency exchange but a short time later when I sold something and converted the US funds into Can $ so that I could transfer the money into my bank account they "generously" gave me 10% on the exchange...I now usually ask for a USPS money order if I am selling something.

Just Google "Paypal Horror stories" and it will be a real eye opener.

One more thing - I authorize Paypal to access my bank account only when I am transferring funds from Paypal to my bank account...as soon as the funds are deposited into my bank account - I cancel the Paypal access to my bank account......you will see why if you take the time to read some of the Paypal horror stories.

Your the seller Ray you get paid the way you want to..Me I do money postal order and don't send the product out till I cash the money order

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Thanks for the input guys n gal,Im the wiser for it! Yeah Lowrenzo,thats how Im going back to. Ray

Several thousand sales in past with no paypal issues but it is getting worse as buyer has most of the protection while the seller can be left out in the cold .

I wont do a transaction unless it is through PayPal. Too many ways for a seller to screw the buyer with a money order. You have no way of getting your money back. It's 2015 and not 1990. People better be covering their rear ends when it comes to money; the most secure way of doing that today is via PayPal. I have had one instance where I had paid and the seller did not send the item. If I would have paid with a money order, it would have just been money flushed down the toilet. Instead, I was able to file a claim....and got my money back. It might have taken a couple weeks to get it, but the bottom line is I got my money back.

The issues with PayPal holding money, etc will all go away the more you use it. The more transactions you do, it sort of builds a credit rating system for you, and then everything becomes instant.....both sending and receiving money; as well as depositing it. When I deposit the money to my bank account, it seldom takes longer than 24 hrs, even though they say it can take up to 3 days. I think PayPal labels it as being "verified" and or "preferred".

I am not a fan of gift payments for items you are buying either. You don't have any protection for getting your money back if the seller doesn't send the item...because that's not what the gift option is for. The way I see it, you are using the service of a company to make things more convenient for both buyer and seller. The payment for that service is 3% if you sell something. It's not a monthly fee to use it, whether you use it or not. It's simply 3% for when you sell something. Doesn't charge when you buy something. A whopping 3%. Geez people..all you have to do is figure that 3% into your final TYD price when listing an item...and it's taken care of. With protection. People that demand use of gift payment to avoid fees for a service they are using, are stealing/cheating the company IMO. And anybody that does that, is just a hair line away from taking money from a person and not sending an item. Theft is theft. Cheating is cheating. I've had people ask for gift payment for items I wanted to buy...some times, if they are a known seller on the forums I visit, I will just pay the normal way and add 3% so they get the full amount they wanted and I still get the protection of getting my money back. Other times I will pass them by.

They could have done a credit check on me and see its pretty dang good. I hear ya,but not selling via paypal anymore. I think Im known good enough on the forums,if not they can ask.

once its linked to a verified bank account funds are available via instant transfer. buyer probably paid echeck or isnt verified

Paypal has a new option for buyers....the buyers can pay a few days after the item is received.

I agree with Daniel - PayPal is the safest way. I am confused on why it was a problem. - was it waiting for the money or some unexpected charge or just getting it up and running for first time. I use and have for a while. I have bought and sold using PayPal. The only thing I trust more is face to face cash. I would give it a chance - do some research you will find it is safe and fair. But it is your choice.

P.S. I was right it sold fast. You had it priced fair.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Yes Bryanna,guess I was ignorant. I dont feel I should get my money 3 days after he recieves the detector. No big deal now,rant over. For now on,its money order. If I know ya,Ive been known to ship before I ever even get the money. Guess Im stuck on how things used to be. Seems like Im the one that may get screwed,not the buyer.

There is zero protection for the seller the buyer is king and 100% truthfull as far as Paypal are concerned.

theres a lot of scamsters on there so they respond to the friction and arguments ,otherwise Nigerian scamsters would be running riot ,i had them before on a phone sale

I can't tell you how many times before PayPal that I would have someone commit to buying something, then say they will get the money order in the mail the next day or some other disclosed time...then you wait and wait for a money order to arrive, send a message or two a few days later inquiring about it and never hear from them again or if you do, they might say some lame excuse as to why they backed out. There you lost all that time waiting when you might have had 3 or 4 others ready to buy, that have already made other purchases by the time you get up to speed that you've still not sold your item. Then you gotta relist it...which makes it look suspicious to the people that saw the previous listing.

On one of the archery forums I visit, a guy that took postal money order only, swindled SEVERAL people out of $500 each. He listed a bow for sale, and told all that inquired that "its yours...you're the first to respond". And those that sent him postal money orders, he kept telling them he never got them. Then he disappeared from the forum...popped up with a new screen name and did it a few more times before getting caught by the administrators who posted a sticky list to not ship to anybody with his address. PayPal was the only thing that stopped more of that from happening.

Ive been using ebay and paypal since 2001 and no problems.. My son n law sjgned up for paypal a year ago and it will hold his funds for several days due to being a no paypal user.. I feel better using paypal..

The more I am around peoples--the more I like my dog. One of these days it's gonna be the da mnest fist fight the world has ever known.

BE CAREFUL though. Some people troll places like eBay and others, They then email the seller telling them they will send them money plus extra to ship to a friend or for other expenses. They then send an email that asks you to reply back with the tracking number in order for the funds to be released. It looks exactly like paypals website but is a scam.

As for being a seller on EBay or whatever. I don't ship until the money is secured. Whether that is PayPal or a money order. Anytime the seller adds money to the actual cost can be suspect. Of course if a buyer adds the 3% or whatever to cover fees that's a different story. I'm talking people who might ask to ship to a grind overseas and they add $100.

Anyhow I find PayPal very safe but I've never had the we won't release funds until after the person gets the item situation. That is odd and I would never sell that way. PayPal has great safeguards for buyers. If the don't get an item or need a refund PayPal will contact you to resolve. PayPal saying they don't release until after the buyer gets the item seems sketchy dude.

I just reread your post and sorry but something doesn't seem right. Can you log into your own PayPal from their website and not a link the person sent? If the money is pending there it should be ok but you saying it was a pain to do and the money involved just makes me nervous.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 02:09PM by digloo.

I bought a camera off eBay last November. It had a one year warranty. After two months it quit working. I notified the company each time explaining the issue. Each time the company would reply saying they would take care of the problem. After eleven emails I didn't get anywhere with them. They kept putting me in a loop. I called PayPal. They contacted them and gave them ten days to make it right. On the eleventh day PayPal debited their account and gave me a refund.

If you insist on using Paypal - then to be on the safe side - only accept Paypal from a long time forum member or from someone who has feedback on the forums....I will never accept a Paypal from someone who recently signed up to a forum.

sanjuro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is zero protection for the seller the buyer
> is king and 100% truthfull as far as Paypal are
> concerned.


EXACTLY

that's how I ended up in bankruptcy

the "buyer" purchased $45,000.00 (yes = Forty Five Thousand Dollars) in gold/silver/coinage from me

scammer buyer then proceeded to file a claim/dispute via paypal saying he didn't receive all that was listed/shown in the auction (which was a CROCK since I had 1000s of feedbacks for a DECADE of sales selling coins & large bulk coin lots to 100s and even 1000s of people almost from the day ebay was 1st live online)...

This guy was out to pull a scam from the minute he saw the offering I had up for auction. He didn't even barely sign for the delivery and had already filed a FULL BLOWN dispute via payenemy (didn't even have enough time to open the boxes of coins and go thru them to make an assessment of what was there or not) = SCAMMER

PayENEMY told him to take the coins/gold/silver to have it "appraised" and to provide them with this document AS WELL AS an official police report stating that a report has been filed.

Scammer/buyer did the above (who knows what he took to where to have "appraised" - hell - I could have my local coin shop buddy appraise $5 worth of stuff for me and send that in to PayENEMY)?

payenemy comes back and tells me that they find in HIS favor because his "police report" trumps all evidence I gave in support of my defense against this con artist/scammer and so they had him ship the 150 lbs of coins/gold/silver back to me and once I signed for the delivery = they refunded him his $45,000

well - turns out that he shipped the coins back MINUS $6000/$6500 worth of certain higher dollar coins that he felt like keeping I guess

so - I called payENEMY and immediately informed them of what he did/the scam he pulled and you know what they did??

Not only did they put my account in negative for $45,000 that they gave to him, but, they told me I had to pay them the 45k BEFORE they would unfreeze my account for use

and

they told me that IF this was true and in fact what he did = I would have to file a police report in my town, AND in the state/town where the crime occurred against the scammer and then file a small claims case against him to try and recover my $$ as they were done/washed their hands of the whole thing since they already made their judgement on the case!!

That's when I told them they'd NEVER get a dime from me and to SHOVE their "service" up their XXX!

Filed Bankruptcy and threw their debt in with all the rest after it totally devastated my 10 yr business that I had worked my xxx off building over a decade

all due to "1" scammer/buyer

think I'll ever recommend payENEMY as a way to take payments!? = I wouldn't go there if I were you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 04:03PM by MichiganRelicHunter.

Hi Wayne,,,,,,,They are changing their name to PayEnama since they flush everyone of their cash...LoL....I like it when I'm a buyer but as a seller it's terrible cause you are at mercy of the buyer....I could buy a metal detector and try it out for a while and still get my money back.........Everyone gets a slice of the pie Feebay,PayEnama etc.....I look for things to get really interesting when they change the income and sales taxes very shortly on the Internet........I think the economy will take a big dump in the near future.......JJ

if a loss of 6500.00 caused bankruptcy for you, sorry to say it appears you had other financial issues in your business. I wouldn't blame it all on PayPal especially since all your 1000's of eBay transactions went well.

That being said, sorry you lost that money, that sucks.

The reason they are holding the money Ray more than likely is because the guy who paid did so with an unverified bank account....

they have to make sure the funds are in his bank before they release them to you..if he had of used a credit or debit card it would of been instant...it's not on your end it the buyers end..

I've had it happen a few times over the years and it's the buyers method of payment..

also if someone does a big amount of gift money to you it will freeze the money sometimes till they call the buyer to see if he authorized it..

Ive used paypal for a decade i guess..zero problems...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Ferrous Bueller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if a loss of 6500.00 caused bankruptcy for you,
> sorry to say it appears you had other financial
> issues in your business. I wouldn't blame it all
> on PayPal especially since all your 1000's of eBay
> transactions went well.
>
> That being said, sorry you lost that money, that
> sucks.
From a business owner of 30 years perspective this can happen in an instant. I have friends that have been working for the same company for 20-40 years. They don't understand what it takes to run a business and put food on the table. It just takes one straw to break a camel's back. It can happen to most of us.

Ferrous Bueller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if a loss of 6500.00 caused bankruptcy for you,
> sorry to say it appears you had other financial
> issues in your business. I wouldn't blame it all
> on PayPal especially since all your 1000's of eBay
> transactions went well.
>
> That being said, sorry you lost that money, that
> sucks.


You may want to educate yourself before passing judgment on something you know absolutely nothing about....

It was far greater than "$6500"

once the scammer filed the dispute (as with ANY dispute opened for ANY reason by ANy "one")

ebay & payenemy FREEZE your accounts (ALL of them)

that means you can NOT buy, sell or do business in ANY way/shape/form

this caused a chain reaction that lead to the downfall of the business over the coarse of the "dispute" process of about 6 weeks

things are not always as they "seem"

invested 40k
sold 45k
scammer took/kept $6500 worth of gold/silver/coins
returned light

payenemy charged me 45k 6 weeks after the dispute was filed - - by that time I had already spent the 5k I made as profit to SURVIVE and pay bills/etc DURING the dispute process

now add in the fact that gold/silver took a BIG dip in price at that time too (about $100 per oz for gold and about $2 per oz for silver

which caused the large lot to take a loss of about another 4k overall

add it all up

stolen $6500
dip in gold/silver $4000
profit $5000 over and above MY cost at wholesale level

= NEGATIVE $15,500

or - I sell what was left of the coins/silver/gold AFTER scammer returned them MINUS what he thieved from the lot, MINUS the hit silver and gold took on the open market at the time and on a wholesale level you may have gotten about $28,000/$29,000 for what was there/left of the lot

but

you owe payENEMY $45,000

so - do give them the $28,000/$29,000 you sell the coins/gold/silver for on the streets and then take $16,000/$17,000 out of YOUR OWN pocket to make up for all the loss/theft/etc JUST to continue doing business with THUGS like THEM??

I DON'T THINK SO

HENCE the bankruptcy since I had no way to do business anymore

I WAS A FULL TIME SELLER on FEEBAY as my SOLE INCOME - it was my JOB for a DECADE until that POS came along and did what he did and caused financial ruin to me/my business

it happened to be a year into the recession too - I had to do what I had to do to survive and get out from under all the debt

try having a 6 digit income for about 8 yrs coming in and then one day some scam artist causes it to come to a screeching halt (now you have ZERO income) but your bills/CC's and all else associated with a lifestyle of a 6 digit per yr income keeps piling up and coming at you full force...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 06:58PM by MichiganRelicHunter.