ATX arrived today. ....I'm sure it's gonna be good to me

First off with just 3 hours of new machine play time in the yard and my garden it has shown me it's best attributes, that I'm concerned with. 14 different gold rings in all flavors and sizes, high low report at distances I've never seen before. All layed on the ground. Nickels all the same flavor, same result. Pulltabs old and new folded and wrapped, same results. What was interesting, piece of aluminum, low high signal, crushed aluminum can same thing. Whole can and can full of soda still the same, low high signal. If a person is looking for gold rings in the water or on the beach over half the equation of stuff you would normally dig is gone from it in my eyes. Now my obsession for almost 10 years was pellet guns. There's a gazillion of them out there in the yard. My coin garden, the machine cleaned up the emi from the underground electrical to the house nicely. All 8 coins gave a nice signal distinguishable from the small airgun pellets narrow signal. Even the Nickle gave it's high low report to the rest giving a low high for higher conductors. This is gonna be interesting in the water I'm telling ya. Also for a water hunter with a scoop the move forward with the coil movement until the signal disappears the target is dead at the outer back edge of the coil. Perfect for foot and scoop positioning. Water time next week! I'm smitten with the results so far lol.

Cool beans

keep us updated Jack and show us some of that GOLD you find

Sounds AWSOME! My ATX should be here tomarrow. I just can't wait to take it beach/water hunting. I got a hooka rig for hitting the deeper water. I don't go any deeper than 10' underwater though. Did you try it on a large 18k ring? Was wondering if it's hi-lo also. Hope you find a ton of gold Mr Flynn.

John

Jack and John, I'll be watching for your finds!!! And any schooling you can give me based on your experiences.

Super news with the ATX arriving Jack, take your time getting aquinted with the pi.

Takes time to adjust from a single tone Pi to a duel tone Pi, at least it did me switching from a single tone Pi to the Infinium duel tone, boy was it a learning curve but well worth the struggle. Now, With the ATX I wouldn't want to go back to a single tone Pi two tone spoiled me.

Congrats,
Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2015 03:28AM by Old California.

I too will be watching with interest in your reports on this machine. Never had the opportunity to try one yet. Thanks.

Ya know, except for having just 2 after tones it's just like using a Sovereign. You get a tone then an aftertone. Being simple really takes over half the equation of stuff you would normally dig in search of gold rings or anything gold wise, low being low conductors. With that simplicity in mind, I definitely don't overcomplicate things myself, it should be killer from what I've seen in just the short 3 hours I had yard play. Now to get top the lake!
Old California Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Super news with the ATX arriving Jack, take your
> time getting aquinted with the pi.
>
> Takes time to adjust from a single tone Pi to a
> duel tone Pi, at least it did me switching from a
> single tone Pi to the Infinium duel tone, boy was
> it a learning curve but well worth the struggle.
> Now, With the ATX I wouldn't want to go back to a
> single tone Pi two tone spoiled me.
>
> Congrats,
> Paul

Everybody still seems to think pulse machines are crude machines that you don't have any form of target information with. It's only when a person actually gets one that they see there actually is a good deal of target info. It only gets better my friend. Once your eyes are opened to the pulse world, it gets harder to use a VLF machine IMO.

I'll tell you what blew my mind. One ring, a smallish 1.01 ct. solitare in 14 kt. gold I found a couple of years ago. The machine sounded off on it every bit of 16 to 18 inches very nicely, high then low tone. Dayum that was my wake up call. All the bigger rings it hit with authority. Now if a PI doesn't see minerals. ..... Just dayum. I know some old beach's that are loaded with beavertail pulltabs and found some silver coins there to that I'll dig it all on. My VLF's I know haven't got half that depth and there's not much iron either. This will open up a lot of area in this deep, white, trucked in sand. I've got big dreams of what's there right now.

Hi Jack,

Unfortunately PI detectors do see mineralization. If they did not you would not need to ground balance the ATX. A PI running in pure all metal mode gets more depth than a ground balanced PI but only in ground where you do not need the ground balance!

I mention this because you mentioned deep, white, trucked in sand. If that sand is very low mineral (sounds like it) use the factory reset on the ATX to start out clean with no ground balance and do not ground balance it. The machine still has an auto tune that allows it to handle slight ground variations just like a Surf PI or other non ground balance PI. If you can run the machine this way you will get more depth. Only after trying this and being unable to work that way should you actually go ahead and ground balance the machine.

For targeting a specific small area use the non-motion mode, which is more powerful yet but also the least forgiving.

If you get addicted to the ATX on beaches invest in the 20" x 15" mono coil. It can of course give you crazy depth. But the real value is in being to identify and ignore small surface ferrous trash. Mono coils are edge sensitive. If you get a signal with the big mono very often a wide sweep will reveal a signal under each edge as the edge passes over the target. This indicates a small shallow target. Larger deeper targets will read in the center as they should. An alternative due to the extra depth you have to work with is to just raise the coil off the surface enough to ignore the small shallow stuff while still getting depths on coin and ring size targets far exceeding what a VLF is capable of.

That's good info Steve thanks! In non motion mode without minerals, white trucked in sand, it should be killer especially giving a high report for low conductors when using that mode. I like the idea of being able to seperate targets into two different catagories when in the water or beach. I'm guessing if I run into mineralization in non motion it will become erractic somewhat right? Should be Tuesday when the machine takes it's first swim, maybe Monday after work! Another question for water use, I've read the machines head is slightly bouyant, just wondering. I've always had a small nylon rope tied off to my water machines with a piece of noodle attached to the other end to hold the detector upright when I slide my arm out of the machine to search the scoop to retrieve a target. What the heck I'm gonna put it in the pool to find out myself. Rope and noodle piece in hand.

Yes like Steve said P.Is are very much effected by minerals ...

take a non ground balancing p.i. and try to run it in alot of sites and it will becoming annoying quickly...

Daniel brings up good points about p.i.s also..


but please remember it does not discriminate it changes tone off of decay rates(pulse delay) and ground bal setting ...

so whatever you know about target behavior with a vlf disc circuit does not hold true for p.i.s..Garrett calls delay as disc...LOL.


if you want to dig low conductors your going to dig iron...if your going to dig high conductors your going to dig iron...

learn the sounds ....don't turn up the delay to remove foil and such..it's will miss goodies especially jewelry..

Show us everything you dig on your first hunt...take a pic of everything..this will be priceless info ...

P.S. you better have wad of iron..especially Bobby pins and wire and hooks...if inland you better have a pouch fool of iron you've never heard before...

this will be valuable information I can't wait to see what you show us..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2015 07:05PM by Keith Southern.

Bobby pins don't take up much room in my pouch lol. I plan on keeping everything. Should be interesting.

I got my atx last night. Read the manual 3 times think I got most of it down haha. Gonna try to make it to beach after I get done welding a buddy's landscape trailer. I'm gonna dig all hi- low targets. Will post pics also. I'm gonna try to run it without GB'ing sens max for max depth. Some beaches by me "salt water" have been replenished with sand from offshore, I've gone hours without a peep on my Excal, we'll see how it goes with atx.

John

Jack, if the machine needs to be ground balanced it will tell you as the ground itself will signal, just like a VLF out of balance. Thing is a PI is inherently less sensitive to ground and salt which is why so many water PI detectors. The ATX is hotter though so needs it where it needs it. You will know.

In salt water you can ground balance to the salt or increase the pulse delay (disc) or a combination of both. Increasing pulse delay has more negative effect on good targets than ground balancing. The Infinim could not ground balance into salt range - that was a major improvement with ATX.

The ATX and coils are not buoyant. The machine in water is slightly negative and will sit on the bottom. Don't drop overboard in deep water, it ain't going to float!

I normally dig all but for turf high conductors dig lo-hi. Last trip to Hawaii I got into a lot of iron junk in the water from hurricane disaster many years ago. All the small ferrous was pretty much rusted away, but lots of big stuff. Dug hi-lo only to miss all the big ferrous. This will snag most all jewelry except very large gold rings and silver rings of any size.

Basically the tone break point is near zinc penny but it varies a bit with the ground balance setting. Hi-lo gets you below zinc plus piles of small ferrous stuff. Lo-hi gets you above zinc and piles of big ferrous stuff. Results depend almost solely of quantity and type of ferrous junk in ground.

Steve, does that mean the ATX discriminates similar to the way a TDI does?

I'm thinking, and that means trouble for me lol. I've read decay rate several places. I'm not bashful, school me. Now it appears that if I use non motion I can size a target to an extent by how long of a report I get. But that might mean a further away, deeper target will do the same thing, short report. I already know the VCO if that's what it's called on this machine is superb. Seems like it's called signal strength for possibly how deep it might be or how small and shallow it might be, both would apply I'm sure. I've had my hands on one PI a Whites Surf whatever it's called and all it did was go "ting" when it came across something. This machine has a lot of nuances that are good information seems like that I'll learn as I use it. Steve you mentioned it would give a low high signal on a large gold ring, decay rate causes that I'm thinking? Would the decay rate be affected by the amount of gold content in a ring, what karat it is, or is it a size of object thing going on? Keith metioned fishhooks and bobby pins. Those should be very faint signals I'm thinking becuse of well, decay rate and size? I'll wait for some replies and read while finishing off my popcorn and ice cream lol.........

search and recovery Wrote:
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> Steve, does that mean the ATX discriminates
> similar to the way a TDI does?

All GBPI (Ground Balancing Pulse Induction) detectors produce different tone in relation to the current ground balance setting, and in the regard the Infinium, TDI, Minelabs, and ATX are similar. The TDI is unique in that you can purposefully misadjust the ground balance setting manually to move the tonal break or tipping point, which is usually near zinc penny.

Jack, deep subject. Start with Understanding The PI Metal Detector by Reg Sniff [www.deeptech-bg.com]

I have written numerous articles on the subject for the TDI, Infinium, Minekabs, and ATX which can all be found on my website. The infinium one is still one of the best and directly relates to the ATX [www.detectorprospector.com]

The Pulse units work off of decay rates....

You take advantage of the decay rates though a Pusle delay or also as DISC on Garrrett's..(i guess its easy for the masses to undersatnd when it says Disc)...but its far from it...

10 uS delay setting is 10 Micro seconds...and thats usually as far as you can turn it down to..get too much below 10 and it will sample things like wet salt..

what happens is the machine fires then shuts off then refires, the delay decides when to sample(Listen) between firing...the shorter the delay like at 10 lsamples quick..turn it up to 25 and it pauses longer so the decay of the targets charge can dissipate..

So we fire and ignite a target in the dirt...that target will now light up and hold a charge...more conductive targets hold charges longer less conductive hold charges less...but also the size/shape/orientation of low conductors can hold a charge as well as a small high conductor weird shaped iron or TIN will hold charges longer than some small jewelry and such even though the iron/tin seem's to be small and low conductance on the scale...

Well we can turn up the delay on the unit and allow more time before sampling..by doing this the charged up in ground item can discharge before the unit listens for easy explanation..

Where we set the ground setting is where the tone flip flops...and where it flip flops is where its the weekest depth usually...

Targets can flip flop tone also on the scale of ground range the units have, except for the highest of conductors..

So as you can see in a perfect world the machines seems like ok turn delay up to get rid of nail and hunt...but its not that easy..too many variables...but luckily we have a tone option to help assign some of the targets into some sort of managable low or high bin...

On your ATX if you want coins go with low/high and ignore high/low...If you jewelry ignore low/high and dig high/low...turn delay up some to deal with small text book iron...but iron can sneak in anywhere as other things into any tone..

On a TDI it has the wonderful option of setting Ground bal (tone flop) anywhere you like...So we can turn the ground bal down to 2 which will make the gound itself very noisy with a high tone...But we can switch the high tone off with the conductance switch option...so all we get is the low tone...and when the gorund bal that low the only things still condcutnace enough to signal at that low of a ground range is coins...even big iron that will singal as a coin will no longer be a high tone but a low tone or intermitant tone and bee silenced or choppy..

So theres a viable coin hunter in a P.I. option in my opinion...

I know the testing and all seems like the unit will nab the goodies and leave the iron but the real world will be different...And it will nab the goodies but it will also dig alot of trash...especially iron that you may of never beens used to digging before...

but If you set your machine right ..on a ATX listen to tones...some iron will roll tones back and forth...and use in the RIGHT spots it will amaze you on what it sees that a VLF can not if you have mineral's especially...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Thanks for the information Steve and Keith. Guess I was hoping the ATX was like a waterproof TDI or very close to how a TDI operates in principle. Not the same thing.

search and recovery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the information Steve and Keith. Guess
> I was hoping the ATX was like a waterproof TDI or
> very close to how a TDI operates in principle. Not
> the same thing.

I guess you lost me. They in principle are both ground balancing pulse induction detectors and so basically are the same. The main operational difference is TDI is manual ground balance. ATX is automatic. ATX under the hood does employ more advanced multi period processing than the TDI single channel methodology. This means it has more even across the board performance on targets than the TDI.

Gosh Steve, at first I think the ATX is possibly in the same realm as the TDI and then I think from what you tell me that it is not. Now I think it is possibly better than the TDI from Whites from what you say. My major interest is in beach hunting and relics. The TDI is an awesome relic machine even though I dig some iron no matter what conductivity I set it to, high or low. Acceptable for the extra depth it gives me. On the beach, I am still struggling with the TDI's ability to knock out iron. Just does not work as well as I like, maybe the conductivity of the salt water. No matter where I set the ground balance I can not knock out the iron reasonably well. You hunt gold nuggets mostly so you are after depth through tougher mineralization than I am. But on dry land I have no problem hunting with good results. If the ATX is better at handling the saltwater environment with better ID on gold targets then it is s machine that I would pay for without a thought. A PI that gives positive ID on gold or much better than I have now I would pay for today. If you can honestly say it is better than a TDI then I will buy one today. I, like so many others, always wanted a waterproof TDI but if the ATX is the next step, then so be it...Stuart

Jack have you got a sling to help with the weight of the ATX? I hear it's a heavy machine.

88junior Wrote:
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> Jack have you got a sling to help with the weight
> of the ATX? I hear it's a heavy machine.
I really can't tell that much difference between it and the CTX I traded for it right now.

S&R, sorry, but no, in my opinion the ATX cannot do the discrimination magic you seek. You would be better off with a CZ, Excalibur or CTX if that is your goal. Pulse is about power first and foremost. Any discrimination at all is a bonus.

Then again if you are waiting for a waterproof TDI the ATX may be as close as you will ever get. I flat gave up on Whites ever doing it.

I have gave up on Whites making the TDI waterproof as well Steve. I have two Excalls that I use now. Great machines. A waterproof Soveign GT with S-12 coil, so basically the same as the Excalls with better tone information and more bells and whistles. Also I have a CZ 6a that I have hunted with since 1991. A CZ 3D and another CZ 3D converted to an AU-21x by Tom D. The AU-21x is proving to be special for dry sand hunting. So, I have to say I love my CZ's. Thanks for the valuable information on the ATX Steve. since I have the TDI and a Dual Field from Whites I would have to say it would not be worth the additional money to me right now. The CTX 3030 really has caught my attention, but every beach hunter I have talked that owns one has had to send them in for repairs. Leak problems mostly, but they all love their machine. Sorry, I am off topic. This thread is about the ATX and PI machines...Stuart

I got out to beach the other night with the atx for an hour. I only dug hi-lo tones. Dug quite a bit of small iron a few zinc pennies and a nickle. The nickle was about 14" deep and wasn't a fresh drop as its all corroded. I did a freq scan. didn't GB and ran machine on max sens '13' disc 1. Machine was a little noisy but targets came through very clear. This is the first time I used an atx I've been using Excals and explorers for over 10 years and still do. I can tell I'm gonna like this atx for beach hunting after this first hunt. I'll post a pic of finds as soon as I can. Thanks

John

Well my hunt today did not mezmerize at all. Carried my Babygirl for an early lunch then to Best Buy and at 12:30 when we walked out you could see the black clouds coming in. Three big thunderstorms in a row over the last 5 hours straight down the river chain and directly over the house. The only thing I've gotten out of it is a lawn full of growing grass! So if you need an up to date weather forecast, pm me here for when I'm off and don't hunt on those days LOL. I don't water hunt with a lighting rod in each hand................

Well John that looks like a 33.3% good find ratio to me. I notice the lack of aluminum too! A lot of VLF's don't do that good LOL. How was your pinpointing and tell us about some depth of the diggins.