A(g) for effort, or sometimes things work out like they should

We got a much needed rain shower yesterday morning and the temps stayed cool up until I decided to go detecting awhile at the private camp I've hunted for over two years now. It got hot and I suffered, though I did manage to find 1953 and 1957 wheaties, and a good luck token from the 50s-60s era. "1502 Tryon St. High Point" was stamped around the circumference of the token, but I don't know if that address exists today, so I don't know its significance on the token.

Anyway, I thought I'd get an earlier start today since I burned up in the late afternoon yesterday. The camp has been a bit tough, lately, though I did score a couple of small silver rings over the last two weeks. I've taken several silver dimes out of the camp in the past, but it's made it much harder to find the next one.

I was swinging the 5.5x10 coil with the Racer in 3 tone and 70 gain, 10 ID filter and I was hunting the fringes of the large open fields. Slopes and bare spots and wooded edges and transitions. Places that were harder to hunt and that I had not crisscrossed dozens of times like I had the main play grounds and open areas. Oh, I had hunted these areas, too, numerous times, but not like I had the known high activity areas. As I've said here before, I attended summer camp here for a week each of 2 or 3 summers back in the late 50s. The camp, then, was not as developed as it is now. We swam in the lake. Now they have a pool. Acres of activity fields exist now that did not back then. So when I look for silver, I try to remember the places we congregated and the routes we took between the facilities.

Down the slope from a present staff cabin where it transitioned through a narrow wooded bottom and came along a drive where it connected with the main road through the camp, I heard a short high blip that gave no reading on the display. I changed to 2 tone and still no display. Then I tried all metal and got a jumpy reading that displayed 82, 83, 85 occasionally amid numbers down into the 70s. The pinpoint function gave a depth reading of 7 inches. It was a bit of a tough dig as the ground was quite hard. I stayed at it and cleaned out the remaining loose dirt in the bottom of the hole with my gloved hand. The Pro Pointer AT revealed that the target was out of the hole and when I spread that last handful of dirt with the tip of the pinpointer, there was the brightness of precious metal. I gently wiped the surface until I could read the date, 1936. I measured the depth of the hole as between 5 and 6 inches.

I've included a few extra shots in the pics below so you viewers can get a sense of the place I've enjoyed so many hours and toiled through some terribly hot temperatures and humidity when I just had to get out and try to find something.

Thanks for looking.

Wayne













Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

This makes me wonder............ if you had a detector that could properly ID targets .... to only 9" of depth............ ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what would you find! ((( Sure............ 10" or 11" would really make things interesting ))).

Heck Wayne from the looks of it there just might not be that much trash in a lot of places, I'd run all metal and just watch the TID just to see what turns up. That ground sampling in the pic it doesn't look too mineralized. Great story and pics............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2015 08:24PM by Jack Flynn.

Hey Tom,

A bigger shovel? Ha! That 5 inch hole was tough, Tom. Imagine digging 9, 10, 11 inches every time. Whew!

What, in your opinion, Tom, is keeping us from having that detector that properly ID's at, say, 9 inches?

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Thanks, Jack.

There isn't a whole lot of trash on the camp. For the 10 or so good targets today (Merc, rifle round ball, 22 bullet, junk ring, nickel, clad dime and quarter, and Lincoln Mem cents), I also dug about a half dozen pull tabs, 2 pcs of foil, and a couple pcs of can slaw. Walking over part of a huge grassy field where they play soccer, signals of any sort were very scarce. Just the occasional low toned and scratchy iron signal. I have hunted just as you have described, all metal and watching for high(er) IDs, but it gets tedious very quickly, so I usually go the other way. The F75SE seems to have the best depth of any detector I have but it finds very few really deep targets, and so far, no really deep desirable targets, i.e., just deeper trash.

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Nice work Wayne!

It's always satisfying to eek out one more silver from our favorite well worked sites ><

HH,
Brian

Wayne......... It's Mineralization attenuation. Not only does it weaken the signal....... but also distorts the targets phase-shift....... causing bad ID's.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wayne......... It's Mineralization attenuation.
> Not only does it weaken the signal....... but also
> distorts the targets phase-shift....... causing
> bad ID's.

Tom explain that for me please. Sounds good just I have no idea. Thanks

One of the primary ID methods of today's modern metal detectors is...... looking at the phase shift angle of a detected target whilst coil is in motion. This phase-shift can (fairly accurately) dictate the conductivity of the target; subsequently, a relatively accurate ID of the target can be generated. Sooooooo........ what does all of this technical (25-Cent words) mean? A poor explanation would be: If a metal item is highly conductive.......... the 'speed' at which it flows electricity is 'fast'. The metal detectors electronics can see/measure this. If a metal target is a low conductor ....... it conducts/carry's electricity poorly/slowly......... and the metal detector can detect this slow-speed conductor. ((( Through a phase-shift angle measurement ))).

Poor explanation!

Now.............. if the metal target is in dirt that has plenty of minerals.......... that buried metal target looks 'blurry' to the metal detector. The more mineralization in the dirt (more conductive dirt)........ the more 'fog' the eyes of the metal detector has to see thru (to see the target). . . . . up to.....and including........ being completely foggy......... and can no longer see the target through the thick fog. (Electromagnetic signal generated by the detector is shunted/attenuated -phase shifted- ........ and can not see the target; rather, can only see/detect the heavy conductive minerals of the dirt).

Ok, I'm going to try and remove all doubt that I don't understand any of this <g>. It seems to me that one could read the mineralization in the ground away from the target and compare to the target + mineralization and net out the effect of the mineralization, leaving the reading of the target only. Sort of.

Or maybe like headlights in fog, throttle back on the transmit power to get less reflection?

How would Einstein handle this?

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2015 12:42AM by ncwayne.

You will see a reduced distance in fog.......... sometimes dramatically reduced distance.
Same goes with dirt mineralization.

The first part of your sentence explains it "We got a much needed rain shower yesterday morning". I've found that if the ground is bone dry and a recent rain shower occurs, then you will get 'funky' signals because only the first one or two inches of soil is wet. Might be a ground balance issue as the machine is sampling the wet first inch or two of wet soil and going down to bone dry soil at target depth.

..I get better depth when soil moisture is consistent to target depth...either bone dry or moist.

ncwayne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I'm going to try and remove all doubt that I
> don't understand any of this . It seems to me that
> one could read the mineralization in the ground
> away from the target and compare to the target +
> mineralization and net out the effect of the
> mineralization, leaving the reading of the target
> only. Sort of.
>
> Or maybe like headlights in fog, throttle back on
> the transmit power to get less reflection?
>
> How would Einstein handle this?


This is why I like ot HEAR the Mineral in bad dirt through audio feedback...the less you reject the dirt in ground bal can help overcome alot of the MINERAL MASKING..a DD coil helps reduce Ground bal for more DIRT acceptance and still be able to distiguish a good target on disc side...You could not hunt in all metal wiht a negative gorund bal but you can in disc mode though Phase shift of the disc circuit...A DD will help toreduce the overall noise feedback on the disc side while the Circuit is Accepting more thn it would if the Gorund bal was set to Neutral on the all metal side...In my soil I jsut ground bal a Unit in disc mode listening for ground feedback coing in onthe disc side then go CCW slightly.. This is runing as hot as you can on a VLF for punch in bad soil..


less filtering of the disc circuit helps alot to overcome bad mineral also..a bleedy filter can alow you to hear into mineral a bit better...

A fisher 1236 is excellent in this regard of SHOWING what a disc circuit filter does....run silencer switch 'on' in bad dirt and SOME legitimately good target's will not be heard...flip it off and let the snap crackle and pop be heard and then the signal mixed in with the bad dirt will report...Same With a DEUS.. turn silencer up past -1 in my soil and SOME target's dissapear report wise in the soil without moving any other controls..

A lot of the Euro machines use less disc filter..So they have a Noisy sound on the discriminated target.. This is what I call bleed..

a 1266 bled like crazy by the way...

Whats really advantagous is a Bleedy Disc filter and also a Negative set Ground bal in bad soil...NEW DEPTHS open up...some of those depths are just a few inches..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla