blisstool as a beach hunter?

im wondering how the bliss stacks up as a wet sand beach hunter and if waterproofed how would it do in the water? i have watched the video of its ability to find gold chains. will it get enough depth on very small and larger gold rings(pi depth or better with the ability to disc out iron) to make it worth replacing my excal or cz20????? anyone used the larger coil at the beach? an indepth detailed answer is what im looking for.
chuck.

The Bliss will go deeper than your CZ20 and Excal plus it will locate gold chains. I have used the 15" coil on the wet sand but it will not work in the salt water. On the wet sand, the machine must be set up properly or it will false constantly. There is a chart on the BlisstoolUSA.com web site that shows suggested settings for the wet sand. If you like to wade, don't get this machine.

Carter will it work freshwater wading for coins and gold?

Barry or Carter have you had problems with old rusty bottlecaps as i can not find a way to eliminate them?

Sometimes eliminating them isnt the answer..... learning what they sound like and avoiding them is. Hummm larger coil, single freq machine and wet salty sand. Thats doenst sound like a combination that is going to be better than a GT in that situation.

Dew

Dew is that how you do not dig rusty bottlecaps with your Blisstool?

Frank - I'm not the expert like Carter but I would venture to say that it will be hard to eliminate them.

Frank..... i dont have a blisstool and im no expert.... but beach hunting ive found just knowing what the target is is the best information. They squeel at me with the SE in Ferr or may break up in cond.... they show up in the lower right corner of the TID. On the Xcal they kind of bong. They are about the ONLY target i really want to learn on the beach. Some of them like corona have a copper sealer.... they sound even different. So i say dont try to disc them..... just learn them.

Frank, the bottle caps are tough. I dive with the Excal and come up with a bag full because they give a raspy low tone. The Bliss will knock out some bottle caps but many will read through. They won't be clean repeatable signals but you will hear them repeat. I have not waded in fresh water with the Bliss but I will let you know when I do. My guess is that it will work. Carter

CarterNY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Bliss will go deeper than your CZ20 and Excal
> plus it will locate gold chains. I have used the
> 15" coil on the wet sand but it will not work in
> the salt water. On the wet sand, the machine must
> be set up properly or it will false constantly.
> There is a chart on the BlisstoolUSA.com web site
> that shows suggested settings for the wet sand.
> If you like to wade, don't get this machine.

carter, thank you for your reply!!!!!! i do like to wade but i have other machines for that!! i went back and read a pm from someone that said 20 inches on a gold ring was not out of the question. that is way deeper than what i can get now.
are you using the bliss at the beach? when set up properly will it still get 20 inches on a gold ring?
really wish i could see this in person or try one before buying but thats just the way i am.
chuck.

YES - I witnessed it (and there were others there too) getting 20" on a gold ring and 18" banging on an 8 reale.
I can attest to the fact that the USA video is all true.
Machine must be set up correctly.

Were the gold ring and 8 Reale buried targets for testing, where you knew where they were, or actual dug targets that were found when hunting ?

Not to say the Bliss would not find these targets at those depths, but when you know where a target is, it's a lot easier for a unit to hit those targets and a unit gets more 'depth' in those situations.

I know for a fact because I have found a lot of them in actual hunting excursions on the beach, my CZ6a and CZ20 hit 8 Reales in the 18-20 inch range with a solid high tone (10.5 inch coil), no problem. That's a big target.

But I have never found a gold ring at 20 inches with it and never tried testing one either, so the Bliss hitting the ring at that depth is impressive. I guess the main thing is to set the unit up correctly, and what that entails, hopefully isn't that complicated.

Yes - they were buried. But how can you ever determine if you can hit something at that depth if you don't know it's there?
We walked away from the spot and "detected" back to it - the signal was unmistakable.
It's not too hard to set-up. Once set - and you know your machine - it's simple to use.

I hear that it has major EMI problems if you are on certain beaches with nearby electricals stuff or even communication towers or such, so that might be an issue for some. Also why it's not really a park hunting (besides no tone alerts, VDI, or modulated audio to tell depth, and no ability to disc past small foil), and is more geared to remote areas like fields and such for all those reasons. Just saying consider the EMI thing, because the *impression* I get from what I've read *thus far* is that it's the most sensitive machine on the market to EMI by the sound of it. I could be getting the wrong impression on that, though, but I know I at least read somewhere thus far that it was unable to be used on a certain beach due to EMI...Or at least that's how I remember it, but could be wrong.

Hi Critterhunter.
Based on my use, Carter's use and others that ACTUALLY OWN the machine and have used it and shown video - I believe you have the wrong *impression*.
From whom did you hear this? Are they an owner of the machine or they "read somewhere" these things too? Thanks.

Don't take this wrong but - Forums are great for sharing information - I just wish people spoke from real use and personal knowledge as opposed to having *impressions*....



critterhunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hear that it has major EMI problems if you are
> on certain beaches with nearby electricals stuff
> or even communication towers or such, so that
> might be an issue for some. Also why it's not
> really a park hunting (besides no tone alerts,
> VDI, or modulated audio to tell depth, and no
> ability to disc past small foil), and is more
> geared to remote areas like fields and such for
> all those reasons. Just saying consider the EMI
> thing, because the *impression* I get from what
> I've read *thus far* is that it's the most
> sensitive machine on the market to EMI by the
> sound of it. I could be getting the wrong
> impression on that, though, but I know I at least
> read somewhere thus far that it was unable to be
> used on a certain beach due to EMI...Or at least
> that's how I remember it, but could be wrong.

I am with you Barry, we have a lot of experts out there that have never used or seen a Bliss!

well......i was trying to get multiple detectorists feedback on the bliss's ability as a beach hunter!!!!!!! thanks to anyone that contributed to this.

anyone tested it with a very small/thin laddies engagement ring?

Seeker - you have EVERY RIGHT to ask a ton of questions.
People with real experience need to be the ones that answer..

We tested with a decent sized man's ring - 20+"..I think like 6 grams 14k

A thin ring will be less depth. The 15" coil will get more depth...

Maybe someone will post more real world results.

barryny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seeker - you have EVERY RIGHT to ask a ton of
> questions.
> People with real experience need to be the ones
> that answer..
>
> We tested with a decent sized man's ring - 20+"..I
> think like 6 grams 14k
>
> A thin ring will be less depth. The 15" coil will
> get more depth...
>
> Maybe someone will post more real world results.

less depth on a small thin ring would be expected, but much better depth and sens than other detectors is the real world results is what i am hoping someone can confirm. if it will see the gold chains that the others wont i am guessing it will do great on tiny and maybe micro gold items.

No problems with EMI here....I've done two videos where I show this....one standing under power lines that normally drive other machines crazy after I dig a real world inground minie ball and one next to an underground wire station/hub in a subdivision site....I can't get closer than 20 feet from it with a F75 or T2 and could hunt right up beside it with the Bliss and I even dug a hole beside it and threw a minie ball down in it to see if it was causing non audioable interference and could still pick it up with no problems.

You can use the machine in Parks and places like that. If you normally set your machine to just disc out iron and small foil, and dig everything...you'll be fine. I think the reason they say that is because modern hunters have gotten spoiled by visual and tone ID and discing out tabs and such...and to make a jump back to a single tone beep/dig machine is too big of a task for people to handle that have become ID dependent.

Well, I know I've read of at least a few people who OWN the machine say that EMI is a major problem for them at certain sites. I'm pressed for time at the moment but later I'll do some net searching and see if I can dig up those remarks. After all, if we can't listen to the opinions of others on a machine that we don't own and weigh the *possibilities* of differing opinions on it, then what's the whole point of metal detecting forums anyway? I know I'll never buy another machine unless I've weighed the opinions of others from numerous sites and sources, and I *have* read that EMI is a major issue for some with the Blisstool in certain locations. That's not surprising, because I believe this is one of those machines that is using highly amped inductive balance, is it not? In that respect, I'm no expert on inductive balance but I've read one of the major problems with that technology is *potential* for major stability and EMI issues.

Ok, did a quick search as time allows and dug this up thus far, but I will search more later, as I am still trying to find a few threads I read somewhere on the net about the EMI issues in certain locations with it. I remember one of those threads in which a guy said it was useless on his beach due to EMI, and he either remarked that it was possibly due to distant communication towers he could see in the distance, or that it was possibly due to nearby beach front homes, but that he never experienced this problem with other machines on that beach (if memory serves).

Again, I admit to not having read in depth on the particulars of this machine, as when I found out it didn't have modulated audio, no tone alerts, no VDI, and very primative discrimination hardly getting up to at the most small foil, I knew then and there it was useless for anything but dry beach hunting (i hear it goes nuts in the salt) and field hunting for relics or coins. Lacking even modulated audio to gauge depths to some degree on, even if you excuse the primative discrimination it would be a park banner in terms of the kinds (and quantity) of holes you'd be digging with no real discrimination or tone alerts, and no modulated VDI to gage target depth with any kind of accuracy. For private fields or certain beaches? Yes, I'd be glad to give it a spin there. And, even in field hunting, the conditons have to be right. Low amounts of non-ferrous trach to avoid countless hours of deep digging for junk...In the hopes of a coin or other good relic.

Anyway, again, having not followed it very closely due to those negative factors (for my style of hunting), I may be wrong (?) but I believe I've read the Blisstool uses a highly amped inductive balance? If that is true, then that jives with what little (admittedly) I've read about machines doing the same...Very prone to EMI problems due to the nature of how the machine tries to achieve increased depths. Might be wrong about it being an amped up inductive balance machine (?), but if it is then it would not surprise me if EMI is an issue as I have read at least a few times about it. Here's a few minor quotes dug quickly from the net, but not the "Aha!" moment stuff I've read a few times concerning it, which I will try to find when I have more time...

[www.geotech1.com]

The main problem is the EMI sensitivity and the "blocking off" at very high mineralized ground.

I truly don't think this type of detector will replace your turn on and go detector - it's a specialty machine for specific locations that demand what it delivers. Deep detection depth in clean ground far from EMI.

[www.metaldetectingforum.co.uk]

If I was you - I would sit on the sidelines for a few weeks and wait it out. I think it's going to be a specialty machine for use in situations where you need lots of depth in clean fields/pasture and are not near EMI.

[www.metaldetectingforum.co.uk]

The Blisstool, at gain=1, gives a very clear response, no question. Oddly, I could only run the gain at 1, no higher. At G=2, the response decreased slightly, and the noise increases. At G=3, the target response was gone. I'm wondering if the preamp is overloading.

Also, the unit is susceptible to RF interference and I had to adjust the Freq control to find a stable point. Fortunately, it has fine control and very easy to do by ear.

[www.geotech1.com]

This erratic-noise high senitivity level sometimes even me drives mad
but all those Blisstool haters should consider that the Fisher 1266-X
with exactly such "noise-method" at it's time (from the early '90s
upwards) was one of the most wanted and deep machines ever!

Extreme depth has it's price, may it be weight or instability
or eletromagnetic noise or whatever! Take it or leave it!

[www.geotech1.com]

After the old sidewalks were removed they spread some fill gravel, which varies from 0-4" deep, most of it 1-2" deep. The ground (or the gravel, not sure which) is pretty nasty stuff. Turns out that no matter what I tried, the Blisstool would not GB at all. At min gain and zero disc there was no manual GB setting that would balance, and no auto GB mode that would work, either. Even trying my best to maintain a very level sweep height to minimize ground noise, and using a slow sweep, the unit was just too noisy to use. The Silencer helped some, but even turned all the way up the chatter was too much. Disc did not help.

They are made in Bulgaria.Pretty hot machines but they run with a lot of chatter.....don't think i could stand the noise for long.

[www.findmall.com]

A lot of guys think Blisstool is a scam machine, made by the same makers as the nokta, jeohunter, etc. Someone on the geotech forums opened one up and the electronics are essentially the same as the nokta or one of those other scam machines...

I think the conclusion was that they are run at super high gains, which makes them deep, but very unstable.

[metaldetectingforum.com]

This metal detector is so unstable that the manufacturer can not set ground balance

[www.youtube.com]

forget the geotech forum on this machine - blatant bull from jealous Bulgarian losers.

you are right that it is NOT a FIRST CHOICE for cherry picking a school yard or park machine. I would grab the E-Trac or Deus ANY day...

I think Daniel TN - summed up the EMI situation quite well.

It dont work that way Berry. Thats like saying if you havent used an Explorer dont post anything. Some people have years of experience and have a pretty good grasp of how a single freq machine is going to operate. Im not a fan of using SOMEONE SAID as gosple either. Expect questions or comments on this site. Thats how we who dont use it find out how it may be different.

Dew

I swear I don't get it. I've never seen so many people out to run a machine down that have never seen it in person, much less use the thing, nor did they ever have any intent of ever using it. Most of the things you find about it are from speculation posts by people that wouldn't even know how to turn the thing on unless it came with an instructional DVD showing how.

The ONLY time that I've ran into EMI issues with mine is when we were testing 4 machines at once, signal checking. In that case NONE of them liked being within 5 feet of one another.

It doesn't behave like your typical detector...it is almost like a PI and VLF hybrid....it goes deep in some of the worse soils and yet discriminates iron. It does have modulation of the audio though. I can tell when something is deep or shallow with mine, or whether its big or small.

Joe Friday: "Just the facts, ma'am",

Too much BS going on here! I appreciate hearing from ACTUAL USERS and those asking legit questions. What DOESN'T interest me is a bunch
of armchair quarterbacks making calls from the sidelines by posting links to other forums and making claims about a machine they have never used.
I read thru that Geotech forum... what a joke those posters are over there. Makes me wonder if they ever even go out metal detecting! I suspect a
lot of them just sit in front of their computers typing crap all day.

After reading the Geo forum, I have never seen a bigger bunch of crap slinging children in my life.

First, I've seen some on other forums that were raked over the coals for pointing out a few *potential* negatives to consider about this machine that *might* or *might not* exist, or asked a few simple skeptical questions they wanted addressed. It's rather simple to just address those *potential* issues or concerns (or devil's advocate questions if you want to call it that) that some have. That is the purpose of these forums, is it not? Or are people only to "hear" and not "ask", and shouldn't convey information found from other sources concerning a topic? But regardless...I do have my concerns as well that I'd like bounced off the wall and see where they go. As for the Geotech forums, let's just say I've heard some interesting stuff privately. There are some very technical minded people on that forum so I wouldn't dismiss opinions out of hand myself. Not saying everything said there on various things is always right, but that any opinion deserves cafeful consideration to prove one way or the other on a topic. You'll not find another forum on the net with such technical savvy individuals who build their own machines or coils

Let's start with this...Perhaps you should read over my initial post about the EMI thing as it appears several of you are reading more into what I said then I actually did. I preferenced my remarks with some rather good disclaimers, including "the *impression* I get from what I've read *thus far*", and that "I could be getting the wrong impression on that, though." I did not say this was the rule of thumb for all, or that it was gospel to be believed beyond belief. I'm simply pointing out what I have heard from others across the net, including those who HAVE used the machine.

I never claimed to own or have used the machine, but I do claim to having read about certain *potential* issues with it, and one of those is EMI for appearantly *some people in certain areas*. I've read admitedly little on the Blisstool, because when I saw the lack of tone alerts, no VDI, primative discrimination only going up to iron or perhaps small foil, and the lack of modulated audio to accurately judge target depth, I realized it was at best a very niche machine that might be useful only at certain beaches (I hear it goes bonkers in the salt) or private fields.

Just for one thing, lacking at least modulated audio to accurately judge depth rules it out for any ethical public site hunter. If indeed it does get the depths claimed, we all know that when digging a deeper hole we usually need to dig wider plugs, and doing that at a public site for every single target because you aren't very sure how deep it might be could potentially be a quick way to get banned.

Not only that, but lacking a VDI, or tone alerts, or the ability to raise discrimination high enough to even knock out pull tabs, would mean that not only would you be digging more plugs at a public site then what is wise, but also that those plugs would *probably* have to be rather large ones in case the target is much deeper then one might suspect. As most of us know, if an intial plug isn't wide enough and the target turns out to be much deeper, widening a plug after the fact makes for some rather messy potential in cosmetic repair. So, when I think a target is deep (based on modulated audio response), I dig the plug wider only when I know I need to in order to have room to reach deeper into the hole with my digger. But, as said, I defer to digging plugs only as wide as I think the target requires. Just for public perception alone it's important to me to try to do that.

I've seen references to the possibility it is using super high amplification to achieve the reported depths. If so, then potential EMI issues would not be all that surprising or out of the realm of possibilty because that's the very nature of the problem that has held back that sort of attempt to gain depth in the past.

I've got no problem and see no problem with spreading the opinions of others on a machine I come across on the net, as that's the very reason these forums exist, for people to weigh various opinions and decide for themselves just where they stand on a machine. Sure, not all those opinions are based on use all the time, but I like to see *potential* concerns raised based on the prior experience of others in order to see how those concerns or questions are addressed. I know I'll never buy another machine without weighing both sides on it, and hearing thoughts from others on what to look into that might be an issue, so I want to hear the potential good along with the potential bad myself and use those points for further investigation as to the reality of the matter.

So, in that respect, I have a few more gems to post for your consideration. Here's some more quotes I dug up. And, by the way, was this situation ever resolved? As it left a lot of us waiting for answers who *might* consider one but want clarification first...

I need another Blisstool owner's help in determining if my Blisstool V3 is faulty or if it is working as intended by the designers.
After working with the Blisstool LTC64X v3 for the past 3 weeks, I have the following issues:
1) The coil will beep falsely when the coil is turned quickly, bumped lightly or tapped with my hand without any metal being present. Is this a faulty coil? If I turn the threshhold and gain down, the falsing is reduced but not completely. I had a similar issue with Garrett AT Pro last year and Garrett had to repair the unit.
2) The discrimination will knock out iron, but it cannot discriminate pull tabs or pop tops or anything higher than foil. All my other detectors can discriminate these and even zinc pennies, but the Blisstool cannot discrimite past foil no matter what I try. Is the discrimination on this machine just limited to iron and tiny bits of foil and that is all? If that is true, then this machine is not going to work well with modern trash. Maybe the machine is not calibrated correctly or I need to try other settings, but I have tried every combination of settings and it will not knock out anything higher than a folded gum wrapper.
3) The depth does not match what I am seeing on Youtube. When I use the same settings that I see on the videos, I can only detect a US Dime (10 cents) at 9 or 10 inches which my CZ-3D can do. My Tesoro Tejon can easily perform as well or better and Blisstool claims that it can almost match most Pulse Induction units which I do not find to be true. I have mild soil so mineral contaminated is not a problem for me so I think I have a defective machine or there is something else going on. I am hoping that the new US distributor can offer some assistance since I have never received any word back from Blisstool support in Bulgaria after sending two messages stating that I was having problems with the coil and the question about the discrimination and depth.
I am not knocking the machine, but I feel I may have a faulty unit or maybe I had a different expectation.
I would appreciate any advice,
…

High,
If you watch the Youtube videos closely, especially the ones made in France and the Italian ones, you will notice that the blisstool is quite a "chattery" bugger.
It starts to squawk and sqeal whenever they pick it up or lay it down.
Maybe that is because they got the gain/threshold cranked to max, I don´t really know.
The users manual translated from Bulgarian to English is more like pigeon English - in Jamaica they´ld call it Patois.
To decipher it correctly, just out of curiosity how things work, was more than I wanted to do in my limited spare time.
Maybe the American dealer will do his homework here and give you some straight talk/facts.
…

Hello, I did watch the one made in France and so did a lot of French detectoristes.Please watch it again and see that this guy cannot pinpoint over the target since the coil is ringing at each end of the sweep.

(END OF QUOTES)

I'm still searching for the thread about it having EMI issues at a beach and will post that when I find it. Problem is I surf so many forums it could be anywhere and Google hasn't popped it up for me yet with some key words I remember in it.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2012 12:02AM by critterhunter.

I would further add this...Early on I was highly interested in the T2SE and F75LTD. Some initial reports came out about EMI issues and poor performance in certain types of even moderately mineralized ground. Many of those people who made those initial reports on the net were eaten alive and called machine bashers. As time rolled on more reports in these two respects came rolling in. Now those two problems are common and accepted knowledge across the net.

Now, that said, I held off buying one due to those initial reports, because I had mainly concerns about stability and depth in my soil, which ranges from mild to higher mineralization. However, I recently ran into a local hunting partner I haven't seen in years and he has an F75LTD that he's offered to let me borrow at any time to see how it does in my soil. I will, because I would like to add one of these machines to my line up if it proves it can handle my soil, as well as the EMI issues it might have at some of my sites.

I would further add that one only has to look to the initial rumors floating around about the GPS resolution of the CTX. So many people were all excited that they were going to be able to use it to grid land without missing rows, as well as to grid water since there are no landmarks to use to mark off grid patterns. Several of us pointed out that consumer GPS simply does not have that kind of resolution down to inches, and that the only consumer models that do are very bulky and super expensive, meant for things like farming crop fields. Despite those words of caution from some, including me, people simply refused to believe anything but that it was going to give them resolution down to inches. "Why would Minelab include it otherwise?", or words to that effect word used. Now that the dust has settled down and the bloom is off the rose, those words of skeptisism proved out.l

Now, I'm not saying the Blisstool doesn't do all that's been claimed so far, and I'm not saying that EMI is a problem or as big as a potential issue as some have said on the net. I'm just saying for people to weigh things out for themselves via their own research. I like to let the dust settle on any new machine for a good long time and hear all the perspectives before making the jump myself. Somebody once said with great claims comes the requirement of great proof. That's where I stand on various things in life, including detectors.

I've dug around and found some quotes of my own I thought I would share.

Proverbs 20:19 He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips.

Proverbs 18:8 The words of a talebearer are as wounds...

Exodus 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

1Timothy 5:13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

----------------

Gossip is just that...it's somebody so bored and idle tha they have nothing better to do than spread false rumors with no creditability to them. People like that go from forum to forum now days, looking for whatever or whomever they can gossip about. Hence anytime somebody approaches you with the words "hey did you hear..." or "well I heard..." or "well I read..." it's of your best interest to stop them right there and say hush, I don't wanna hear it. It matters not to the talebearer of whether there is any amount of truth in the story they are telling...they have no interest in the truth of the matter, they just want to have something to gossip about that will wound somebody or something. You never see or hear these kind of people talking about something good they saw or heard about...but boy are they chaulked full of stories of the bad.

[youtu.be]