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New Fisher Manta

Posted by Frank in NH 
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 05, 2019 03:56PM
So do we know the "drop points" for small gold and high K larger gold once we add salt water? I mean are we looking at small gold being around 1 gram and it not hitting larger 24K gold? This will have an impact on rather someone can hunt in just disc....... or even reverse disc hoping to ID non-ferr like a PPer. If it wont get 24k in disc..... then when we reverse disc we will think that target is iron am i right? Just because of weight of heavy and the depth this machine may get in AM (not sure about disc) there is still a huge advantage here. Im hoping Tom gets one of these proto types soon for testing and maybe we can get a better grasp of what these drop points maybe and the best way to use this machine to our advantage.

Joe i know you just want a DEEP raw power PI and it appears as thou you will dig most targets....... i think thats going to get old very fast in spots not touched in years unless there is just less modern trash to shift thru. I assume the only reason you havent been using a PI is because of the uS and because the depth of the TDI and now this machine has given you better PI options.
OBN
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 05, 2019 06:16PM
dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Joe i know you just want a DEEP raw power PI and i
> t appears as thou you will dig most targets.......
> i think thats going to get old very fast in spots
> not touched in years unless there is just less mod
> ern trash to shift thru. I assume the only reaso
> n you havent been using a PI is because of the uS
> and because the depth of the TDI and now this mach
> ine has given you better PI options.

Very little trash and really very few targets...no one has been swimming at these beach's for 50 plus years, all private now, all long gone.

Yes a much better opp with the "AQ" in combination with the Excaliburs. As far as the TDI, I don't like the audio and that coil, just like the DF..hated the audio and the coil... sad smiley

Blood Member of RingKeepers
2020......Gold Rings....73....Misc Gold 1 .......Silvers ...110



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2019 05:40AM by OBN.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 10:45AM
Wasnt the DFs coil a bit of a floater and why Andersons came out with the weight for it? You think about it Joe..... in PP the Xcal really does a very good job when other machines use an11 or 12" coil. Id still like a 9" coil.... im not certain we'd loose a lot of depth... but might gain more use of the 7uS ability on smaller targets and it would sure swing a lot easier out there. Theres a lot of water that has to be moved with a thick shaft and large coil...... especially with very much water movement. Im hoping the big coil wont be difficult out deep to PP with. Seems like for headphones..... just add yourself a connector with your phones and you are on your way..... if you dont have to reduce the sensitivity to quit the machine. We wont know that until we hear the machine with a better pair of phones.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 12:14PM
So how much deeper do water hunters expect to dig than they are now? It seems to me that there is a physical limit to digging in Ocean water. Your body weight will only push so deep. Multiple scoops in moving water..... racing against the hole filling again is exhausting. Using a powerful PI will result in micro targets which again becomes exhausting because of target chasing. This detector is going to benefit wet sand hunters more than anyone. For water hunters I see too many trade offs.

And for the prices discussed it better come with good headphones attached. Modifying it to a satisfactory hunting machine would be a decision changer.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 12:52PM
goodmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So how much deeper do water hunters expect to dig
> than they are now? It seems to me that there is a
> physical limit to digging in Ocean water. Your bod
> y weight will only push so deep. Multiple scoops i
> n moving water..... racing against the hole fillin
> g again is exhausting. Using a powerful PI will re
> sult in micro targets which again becomes exhausti
> ng because of target chasing. This detector is goi
> ng to benefit wet sand hunters more than anyone. F
> or water hunters I see too many trade offs.
>
> And for the prices discussed it better come with g
> ood headphones attached. Modifying it to a satisfa
> ctory hunting machine would be a decision changer.


That's a very good point. The AQ should be aimed mostly towards wet sand hunters. Wet sand hunting should be its primary purpose because that's where it will be used the most.

The coil needs to be as light as possible while also being rugged enough to swing over rocks and pebbles and resist abrasion.

We should be able to use any headphones we want. Waterproof headphones have poor sound quality and are heavy and uncomfortable. Hardwired headphones are the worst.

The AQ can have these features and still be a good water machine for those who want to use it for that purpose.

.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2019 01:13PM by Badger in NH.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 01:32PM
The headphone connector is an available commercial item - aftermarket or custom headphones should be easy to adapt.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 02:08PM
Good to hear we'll be able to use any headphones. That's one less worry.

.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 09:02PM
Goody.... me and Joe don’t hunt in the ocean. Here in the Gulf frankly it’s easier to dig in the water than most have it in the wet sand. Targets tend to move to the center of the hole.... I can dig a pretty big hole out there. I think what Rick is saying you will need to add a connector... like an M8. Joes phone and my Eisenhower or Harolds are water phone... they sound pretty good with great volume and response to targets. But typically yes waterproof phones have to be sealed better and use pizzos not speakers.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 09:18PM
I don’t have the spec for the connector, but I know it isn’t some unique thing that Alexandre Tartar cooked up in his secret lab on the French coast!! This information will be available at launch or before.

Note, the headphone connector is on the battery case - kind of like Minelab GP[/GPX stuff.

The battery case is completely separate from the detector electronics and that means.......think folks.....that means that it can be replaced with nearly ANYTHING! Big, small, attached, remote.

Heck, I’m already thinking about how tough it would be to make an aftermarket case which took LiOn batteries of various sizes.

All of the work put in by so many folks like OBN to turn the Excalibur into a top level beach/underwater machine - Minelab did nothing to move that along and their sales were supported and increased by the “aftermarket”. It may well turn out that not just the AQ but the whole future Impulse line will be likewise a sort of springboard for a burst of creativity and invention to expand, extend and accessorize it!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2019 09:25PM by lytle78.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 09:42PM
Yeah I know from his videos that OBN goes where few others go. His ability to reach those areas sure has me jealous. i hunt the Mid Atlantic public beaches like thousands of others. Low tide is the only water hunting time. Any other time it is just too rough. This detector will not change that. And the holes are filled quickly with the water movement. To be honest an Excal or CZ is all that is required. I have hunted further south like Myrtle Beach and I can see the possibilities. The water drop off is much more gradual in the water.

Just my thinking.....

This detector has the potential to be the greatest weapon on public beaches against deep sand. As good as sand movement from a storm? I doubt it. But every seasoned beach hunter is always looking for more depth and an advantage over the competition.

I have mentioned it before many times, but wet sand hunting is a dilemma involving time. Coverage area or dig deep. Now the potential will soon exist for both. That is exciting.

Anyone out there that has dug a Bobby pin a foot deep in the splash zone fighting the waves and the hole refilling faster than you can dig it has to be excited about a discriminating PI. Anyone that has not done that has no idea how exhausting it is and how it takes a toll on the entire hunt especially when it is repeated a few times.
cdv
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 09:46PM
Bring it......I have enough headsets to come up with a good pair for it.....just need the machine and the connector info...

Cliff
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 10:22PM
Rick.... not sure it’s a simple project it does have both headphones jack in.... and headphones combined with battery going out. I’ve been looking at that shaft. I noticed that connector coming out the back. Also from what I remember it’s got a coil battery limit. So u could increase run tim I guess with higher hour liths. I always like to see what smart people come up with for new machines
OBN
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 06, 2019 10:40PM
lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don’t have the spec for the connector, but I kno
> w it isn’t some unique thing that Alexandre Tartar
> cooked up in his secret lab on the French coast!!
> This information will be available at launch or be
> fore.
>
> Note, the headphone connector is on the battery ca
> se - kind of like Minelab GP[/GPX stuff.
>
> The battery case is completely separate from the d
> etector electronics and that means.......think fol
> ks.....that means that it can be replaced with nea
> rly ANYTHING! Big, small, attached, remote.
>
> Heck, I’m already thinking about how tough it woul
> d be to make an aftermarket case which took LiOn b
> atteries of various sizes.
>
> All of the work put in by so many folks like OBN t
> o turn the Excalibur into a top level beach/underw
> ater machine - Minelab did nothing to move that al
> ong and their sales were supported and increased b
> y the “aftermarket”. It may well turn out that not
> just the AQ but the whole future Impulse line will
> be likewise a sort of springboard for a burst of c
> reativity and invention to expand, extend and acce
> ssorize it!


I can't wait!

I see many things externally we can add or change. Like you said Rick the battery, those 18650 batteries are very easy to work with, and really you could run a 14.4volt LiPo out of a excalibur battery pod..the endcap for the Bat..pod would require the same 2 M-8 connectors as on the Impulse battery, one for the head phones and the other for the battery to the machine............ both very easy to locate..2 ..M-8 Bulkhead connectors

And the Headphones, unlimited possibilities...the older Minelab SD & GP PI's were famous for running Doc's treasure amp..pulling out those faints..!!

Pictured is the 3 pin for the head phones... ................................................................Alex T had mentioned the 5 pin?....best to wait until we get our hands on the "AQ"

..

image for forums

Blood Member of RingKeepers
2020......Gold Rings....73....Misc Gold 1 .......Silvers ...110



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2019 10:41PM by OBN.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 07, 2019 02:41AM
OBN

I had hoped I could “lure” you out of your subsea cave (next to the wolf eel) and have you jump on this.

I have been pals with folks at First Texas for 5-6 years or so, but for all their technical knowledge and marketing skill, I think they have underestimated the power of the collective ‘wit’ of enthusiastic and technically oriented users to grow the “ECOSYSTEM” which their technology and products form a basis for.

It looks like after 2 years plus of me being the ‘little drummer boy” for the Manta/Impulse, there will soon be an actual product which discerning and experienced operators can explore, exploit - and with the knowledge and experience of folks like you - rapidly expand into a evolving ecosystem of tools.

For my part, I have modest hopes that ongoing discussions will lead to some arrangement where I can play a more direct part in getting this thing loose in the ocean!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 07, 2019 01:43PM
Rick...…. exactly. And you have so eloquently exposed/divulged persona …….. with substrate humor to boot!

There are a few (deliberate) threads on this forum that represent pinnacle apotheosis examples of 'launch platforms'...…… with the collective contribution database of in-the-blood supporting members...……. unto which many (to include Mfr's)… to epiphany-launch: mild-to-wild brainstorming into the revolutionary future of ingeniously contrived contraptions of tomorrow...…. in symbiotic harmonious foray.

Single/solo brainstorming = straight-line growth resultant.
Collective brainstorming = asymptotic nirvana.

(Yes = Yet; all of this does indeed come at a freedom-of-speech-foundation price this forum incurs on occasion).
OBN
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 07, 2019 10:42PM
The (Picture) of the Pre-sale on the "AQ" interesting not only the delivery date but a few other details, like 2 batteries...3 meters...wading?..Not sure how accurate all is but would be nice, no mention of warranty.



Blood Member of RingKeepers
2020......Gold Rings....73....Misc Gold 1 .......Silvers ...110
Fisher Impulse AQ
December 07, 2019 10:54PM
Dang, I tried to add QTY -1- to my basket (cart), but it wouldn't let me. . . . . grinning smiley


Though I don't live near the ocean, I've been following the Manta / Impulse AQ for years now. It's become so familiar, if feels like I already have one.


Rich -

?
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 07, 2019 11:42PM
It gives us hope.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2019 11:46PM by Badger in NH.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 07, 2019 11:44PM
n/t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2019 11:47PM by Badger in NH.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 08, 2019 12:16AM
nice looking detector
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 08, 2019 12:19AM
Dang Joe, you would think they would at least use a pic of a new machine instead of that same old tired LE JAG photo. Same old sand and grit around the case and threshold knob as well as others. Something ain't right here. Hope your doing fine and Merry Christmas.
OBN
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 08, 2019 05:29AM
Carolina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dang Joe, you would think they would at least use
> a pic of a new machine instead of that same old ti
> red LE JAG photo. Same old sand and grit around th
> e case and threshold knob as well as others. Somet
> hing ain't right here. Hope your doing fine and Me
> rry Christmas.

I agree T...All is good buddy, I'll be glad to start a New Year. More of a challenge starting from "Zero". Hope your well ..........You and the family have a nice Christmas Holiday.

Looks like a two year warranty on the "AQ" which I'm happy with...took me a while to dig in and find it. Wired headset, I think it's saying comes with a standard set of WP Head phones, .....not wireless



Blood Member of RingKeepers
2020......Gold Rings....73....Misc Gold 1 .......Silvers ...110
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 08, 2019 01:51PM
The latest faceplate has a couple of detail changes. These include one additional position on the “mode” selector. Details probably not available until launch.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 08, 2019 03:06PM
Crap..... no lith battery and 5 hours. Joe get busy figuring out how to change that ....soooo old school now. I hunted a couple of hours on Daytona today with the MDT. I was checking most every target...... so I can now see you guys on the coast have your work cut out for you if this thing doesn’t disc. 2’ in concrete like sand is some digging....and for a piece of iron... it’s a work out. Really needs a 9” coil for ocean water too. That would still make it better than any VLF machine. 2 years warranty..... if the machine has been test right then this is good.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 08, 2019 11:03PM
"... 5 hours [battery life]... get busy figuring out how to change that"
It states there's 2 batteries supplied, so that's 10 hours use, which would satisfy most customers. And presumably heavy users could purchase an additional pack.
Re: the NiMH battery, not Lithium-chemistry: Obviously there are many technical differences between the two, some good and some bad features to each type. Only the designers really know what characteristics they wanted and why they made the choice they did. But consider that one advantage of Li cells is their light weight for a given energy 'store'. Weight is important here, as it's used as a counterbalance to the coil weight. A compareable weight Li pack would indeed give longer run time than the NiMH -- but it would likely cost 3 times that of the NiMH pack too. Think 150 Dollar battery packs in laptop computers, as a guide.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 09, 2019 12:19AM
Nice summary Pimento. Swings and roundabouts. No issues shipping NMHI batteries around the world.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 09, 2019 10:57AM
BUY.... there we go, buy another battery. I hunt in the water and can be a good 20 min. from my car each way. So id have to find a place to put it DRY. Well...... the Xcal battery with you buy with a pod its at least twice the price of a lith replacement...... and they get 3 times the run time AND can be swapped out easily. No matter how you slice it Lith are NEW AGE as is USB charging. Im not a fan of opening the box on any water machine...... but in this case. I thought someone said there were going to be two....... but one was going to have 10 hour running time? I assume its also the reason they will limit the voltage going to the coil unlike the TDI? So what do you think...... two batteries cost to put in that unique case compared to 1 with liths?

Someone mentioned HOLE digging. Well i got in 2 hours at Daytona in between a volleyball tournament yesterday. I was using the MDT and wanted to check some really deep iron targets to see if they were iron. i can say those that hunt in the concrete like sand or oat meal near the surf will have fun with the AQ..... nearly a 2' hole takes it out of us old men.
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 09, 2019 12:57PM
The “pod” is not opened, It is USB charged. All this has been disclosed.


The run time issue is real - we would all like 6=8 hours, but within the weight budget, that is a tough goal when paired with the high current consumption of a powerful PI detector. Look at a ML GPX 5000 battery - $440, 1.2 pounds, 7.4 v, 8500 milliamperes.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
cdv
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 09, 2019 01:54PM
Seriously Dew,, you ought to know better than to even try detecting a beach after playing volleyball.....especially at our age! :-)

Fisher is just looking out for you and themselves.....if you were to go out there with a 10 hour battery and the new AQ digging 2 foot deep holes all day (at our age) in this litigious day and age, the company wouldn't survive!!! eye rolling smiley

I just wish the machine would match the ATX and the 40" dime in the water test.....

Above comments just meant in jest....
OBN
Re: New Fisher Manta
December 09, 2019 04:40PM
Two battery Packs will be fine for me, I normally only hunt 3 to 4 hours and only "more" if I think it's not going to be there next time out. Rare. I think the stock "AQ" battery pack charges thru the 4 pin M-8 female connector. And since they are WP to 3 meters you can just carry it in your finds pouch, the extra pocket. Maybe what will be needed is a safety cap for the m-8 connector to prevent a short if something metal should cross the contacts. Or possibly since they went to a 5 pin M-8 connector on the head phone side that will be the charge port. Once these batteries start loosing there kick we can rebuilt these with Li-ion's (18650) for longer hunt times, all we have to change is the BMS PCB to a 4s Li-ion Battery Management (PCcool smiley then wire as needed. The 18650's are very easy to work with....This would be the one we would use to change the BP to Li-ion



A 10 cell I made for my heated winter water detecting gloves, good for 10 hours on Hi Temp... Allows me to hunt low 30 degree waters...



If I do make my own battery pack it will be Li-Po and it would be using the excalibur battery pod...fast charging..and longer lasting, should be able to get about 30 hours detecting time with the one I conceiving..

Blood Member of RingKeepers
2020......Gold Rings....73....Misc Gold 1 .......Silvers ...110
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