Best tone ID machine at depth?

I was wondering what machine other than a Minelab, excels at tone ID at depth? What kind of depth will a deep tone ID machine still respond somewhat accurately? I'm looking for some input since I'm relying more on tones on my Etrac rather than VDI's these days.Thanks.

Dan(NM) Wrote:
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> I was wondering what machine other than a Minelab,
> excels at tone ID at depth? What kind of depth
> will a deep tone ID machine still respond somewhat
> accurately? I'm looking for some input since I'm
> relying more on tones on my Etrac rather than
> VDI's these days.Thanks.

Well my old faithful ID's coins well beyond a foot deep nearly all the time, but if you are in New Mexico then the ground might be a lot different and of coarse your coins are different too so there are many variables to consider,

John.

A properly tuned CZ3D will hit deep with a correct ID. It will be fooled by deep iron sometimes but most detectors will be. The Signum 7272 I tested would also go deep with a good ID.

I can trick both my CZ21 and Excal on good deep targets. I have yet to be able to trick my CTX (not the numbers which are all over the place)

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NC

I like the simplicity of a 2 tone machine, i also think it's easier for the detector to process a grunt for iron and high tone for non ferrous, and if you can go low on disc and adjust the recovery speed even better coupled with an accurate manual balanced option.

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the simplicity of a 2 tone machine, i also
> think it's easier for the detector to process a
> grunt for iron and high tone for non ferrous, and
> if you can go low on disc and adjust the recovery
> speed even better coupled with an accurate manual
> balanced option.

Thats why i like the simplicity of the T2 audio,exactly how i run mine basically,rarely use or look at the screen,audio is king all day long,as soon as you get too a certain depth in my mind the 8'' depth range then the TID is basically totally unreliable.When using my Nexus you are basically running on the VCO audio then finally the audio threshold for the real deep targets.

When using my Deus,i dont even have the control box on the shaft these days,its always been a audio machine and full tones on the Deus is my personal choice,alas no one machine is king as they all have good and bad points.

I run my Etrac on TTF 95% of the time now and concentrate only on repeatable signals, it seems that 9 1/2" is max the audio will hit before it starts to sound like iron here in NM. At 8" the numbers are all over the place, the FE numbers start hitting in the low single digits and the CO's drop into the mid 30's all the way down to the teens on deep copper coins. I found this to be true with the CTX in this soil around here as well.

You need this coil Dan

ghound Wrote:
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> You need this coil Dan


Which coil would that be?

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the simplicity of a 2 tone machine, i also
> think it's easier for the detector to process a
> grunt for iron and high tone for non ferrous, and
> if you can go low on disc and adjust the recovery
> speed even better coupled with an accurate manual
> balanced option.

I agree except for a few spots I hunt on that have tons and tons of pennies. Someone had to of put them there on purpose but with my CTX I can walk right by them. Normally I dig all good targets but in a few spots there are literally hundreds of pennies everywhere and I just cannot do it.

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NC

Dan(NM) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ghound Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You need this coil Dan
>
>
> Which coil would that be?

oooppps!

[youtu.be]

adamBomb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ghound Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I like the simplicity of a 2 tone machine, i
> also
> > think it's easier for the detector to process a
> > grunt for iron and high tone for non ferrous,
> and
> > if you can go low on disc and adjust the
> recovery
> > speed even better coupled with an accurate
> manual
> > balanced option.
>
> I agree except for a few spots I hunt on that have
> tons and tons of pennies. Someone had to of put
> them there on purpose but with my CTX I can walk
> right by them. Normally I dig all good targets but
> in a few spots there are literally hundreds of
> pennies everywhere and I just cannot do it.


Agree there, they need a good TID for parks too.

I know you said not minelab but the Explorer was pretty good for me at depth.

adamBomb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ghound Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I like the simplicity of a 2 tone machine, i
> also
> > think it's easier for the detector to process a
> > grunt for iron and high tone for non ferrous,
> and
> > if you can go low on disc and adjust the
> recovery
> > speed even better coupled with an accurate
> manual
> > balanced option.
>
> I agree except for a few spots I hunt on that have
> tons and tons of pennies. Someone had to of put
> them there on purpose but with my CTX I can walk
> right by them. Normally I dig all good targets but
> in a few spots there are literally hundreds of
> pennies everywhere and I just cannot do it.

I've been hunting an area with various detectors where there were many 'zinc' penny signals others have ignored. Every single one of those signals turned out to be .69 caliber CW bullets.

Quote
Dan(NM)
I was wondering what machine other than a Minelab, excels at tone ID at depth?

Dan, there are a lot of variables to factor in, to include the coil used, the detector settings, the search coil presentation, the ground mineral make-up and the target's size, shape, orientation and conductivity level. I have owned and used quite a few Minelab models and accessory coils, and used them in several western US states, mainly where the ground has a higher iron mineral content.

I mainly hunt by listening and relying on the audio response and seldom do much more than glance at the visual Target ID, 90% of the time. My preference when anticipating deeper targets (5" and over) is to use a 2-Tone mode with accepted ferrous targets producing a lower, bass-like audio tone, and higher-conductive targets a higher-pitched tone. In my preferred 2-Tone models the high-pitched tone incorporates VCO enhancement of the shallower to near-coil targets, and the mid-depth to deeper targets lack much in the way of VCO audio. I listen or the audio signal strength.

I have not found the FBS models I have owned to be all that reliable on deeper-target audio response. Yes, they often can be, but ALL metal detectors are going to struggle to properly process deeper targets with a 'proper' Target ID or Tone ID signal, especially if they are using a multi-tone function of 3-or-more tones. Some of the detector makes and models I enjoy using for densely iron infested sites excel there, but many lack what most would consider to be 'depth.'

In sparse-target sites where there isn't a target masking challenge, I have used some detectors that give me a very good, generally reliable, higher-tone audio response on deeply positioned non-ferrous targets that has matched or exceeded what I got with some FBS models used for comparison. The better one for deeper targets I used, and still do, is the Nokta FORS CoRe. I have also done pretty well with the Makro Racer 2 using the 'DEEP' mode, and was surprised with the Nokta Relic in both the standard 2-Tone as well as 'Deep' mode because it is a 19 kHz detector.

Quote
Dan(NM)
What kind of depth will a deep tone ID machine still respond somewhat accurately?

It's difficult to just state a particular target depth because for real comparable results it would need to be compared, prior to recovery, with a competing model. So maybe the safest way I can answer this is that I have hunted several sites with the Nokta FORS CoRe using the standard 7X11 DD search coil where I had previously hunted using an Explorer II with standard coil, and one with the 11" Pro coil. My CoRe hit cleanly with the higher-tone on some targets I didn't hear, or didn't hear cleanly with the FBS model.

I hunted with a fellow using both an e-Trac and CTX-3030, trading them off to decide which worked better at the location we were hunting. I had been using my Relic and CoRe, but switched to a Racer 2 to tinker around with the 7X11 DD coil that I very seldom used to use on the Racer 2. In some on-site comparisons, my Racer 2, in both the 2-Tone and Deep modes, hit on a few deeper positioned coins than either of his Minelab's. No, not by inches and inches, just better, or there with a cleaner high-tone audio response.

Quote
Dan(NM)
I'm looking for some input since I'm relying more on tones on my Etrac rather than VDI's these days. Thanks.

That's the best I can tell you is: I did OK with a White's MXT All-Pro in the 2-Tone Relic ID mode, and also my Teknetics T2 'Classic' in 2-Tone search mode, but I switched to the CoRe from them in January of last year because it out-performed them in several ways, such as detection depth, stability and clarity of audio response, plus the CoRe uses a VCO audio enhancement in the 2-Tone search mode that worked very well.

No perfect detector out there, and all we can do is ask (like you did), and also try to get our hands on a few units to see what happens to be a nice 'fit' for us and our style of hunting. For me, it's the Relic, Racer 2 and CoRe for deeper-target, Tone ID performance.

Monte

I think Monte proved what he said about variables and a lot of them when picking a machine. Way to often we rely on that TID .... to NOT dig. That can really hurt our finds....... especially when the tone was accurate and we just didnt want to dig or trust it.

Dew

I guess in mild soil the high gain detectors are king for tone ID at depth, the signal can get most of it's depth and the modulated audio gets to work the way it should.
From what I've experienced in more mineralised ground is if the detectors signal gets saturated at say 8" then that's the depth your getting, there's very little advantage with the high gain units in this type ground because at this depth the modulated audio is only starting to work, the gain only enhances the faint audio at depth it dosen't make the signal penatrate the ground any deeper imho.
Look at any videos on youtube of a high gain detector hitting small targets over 12", if they show the mineralisation scale to the camera it will read close to zero!
eg in my test garden my R2 with stock 11x7 coil and 3-4 bar mineralisation would struggle to hit on a big victorian penny at 9", gain made very little difference between about 65-90 as the signal was just not getting any deeper, my current detector hit the same penny hard with the 5" coil simply because it's signal go's deeper, i actually made a video where i dug it up as i thought i had made a mistake, but it was bang on 9"
Perhaps the best of both worlds is something like the Deeptech Warrior or AKA Sorex pro which have a sensitivity control as well as a gain control.

I have no problems IDing Victorian pennies at 12 to 13 inches using the standard 950 coil, Most of the ones I find are in the 9 to 12 inch range in woodland and my GB reads about 64 to 67, The 950 concentric gets the same depth as the 10" DD, But I dig next to no Iron with the 950 coil, Only Iron buckles and plough blades can fool the machine due to the size and shape along with large washers.

Monte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I did
> OK with a White's MXT All-Pro in the 2-Tone Relic
> ID mode, and also my Teknetics T2 'Classic' in
> 2-Tone search mode, but I switched to the CoRe
> from them in January of last year because it
> out-performed them in several ways, such as
> detection depth, stability and clarity of audio
> response, plus the CoRe uses a VCO audio
> enhancement in the 2-Tone search mode that worked
> very well.
>
> No perfect detector out there, and all we can do
> is ask (like you did), and also try to get our
> hands on a few units to see what happens to be a
> nice 'fit' for us and our style of hunting. For
> me, it's the Relic, Racer 2 and CoRe for
> deeper-target, Tone ID performance.
>
> Monte

I found that hunting side by side with the Relic and the Core that there was nothing between them and the MXT All Pro, Neither machine could find something that the others would not see, As for being noisy the Core and the relic are just as chatty when turned up. I think it is more of a personal preference issue, they are all high gain machines, I still don't see any proof that makes them any better than the All Pro or Vice Versa for that matter,

Where I live ( In The City ), I can run the A/P in the Standard Relic Mode with Any Coil without it chattering with the Gain on +3 right up as far as it will Go with the GB set to 83 and it will not make a sound, Most of my Dirt ground balances at 57 to 68/70-ish,

I like the Nokta's but there are a couple of Quirks that I don't like about them, I hope Nokta's new machine will address those things.

John.

auminesweeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no problems IDing Victorian pennies at 12
> to 13 inches using the standard 950 coil, Most of
> the ones I find are in the 9 to 12 inch range in
> woodland and my GB reads about 64 to 67, The 950
> concentric gets the same depth as the 10" DD, But
> I dig next to no Iron with the 950 coil, Only Iron
> buckles and plough blades can fool the machine due
> to the size and shape along with large washers.


64-67 must be nice enough ground, mineralised is 70-80's on the MXT.

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> auminesweeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have no problems IDing Victorian pennies at
> 12
> > to 13 inches using the standard 950 coil, Most
> of
> > the ones I find are in the 9 to 12 inch range
> in
> > woodland and my GB reads about 64 to 67, The
> 950
> > concentric gets the same depth as the 10" DD,
> But
> > I dig next to no Iron with the 950 coil, Only
> Iron
> > buckles and plough blades can fool the machine
> due
> > to the size and shape along with large washers.
>
>
> 64-67 must be nice enough ground, mineralised is
> 70-80's on the MXT.

Yeah, It is pretty lazy ground, I tried phoning the UK Geology Dept to find out where the hottest ground in the UK was and they said that Cornwall has very high Iron content so I might head down that way next Spring and see if I can video some testing, They also listed a couple of places up North, But so far the early 80's is the best that I could find, I OZ it was way way up there and it was a challenge but it did work pretty well just the same.

My ground locally is cruel on some detectors but i have a permission inland about an hours drive and it's fantastic!
There's about 4 inch of top soil then it turns to a sandy-fine gravel- red type soil, very little stone and no hot rocks or coke, very mild and easy to dig, i can max out my detector for depth there, I've had a few finds at the 12" mark.

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My ground locally is cruel on some detectors but i
> have a permission inland about an hours drive and
> it's fantastic!
> There's about 4 inch of top soil then it turns to
> a sandy-fine gravel- red type soil, very little
> stone and no hot rocks or coke, very mild and easy
> to dig, i can max out my detector for depth there,
> I've had a few finds at the 12" mark.

Here is a Good Map of Ireland and it's Geology
[www.explorationandmining.com]

And Here is where I found it, [www.explorationandmining.com]

auminesweeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ghound Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My ground locally is cruel on some detectors but
> i
> > have a permission inland about an hours drive
> and
> > it's fantastic!
> > There's about 4 inch of top soil then it turns
> to
> > a sandy-fine gravel- red type soil, very little
> > stone and no hot rocks or coke, very mild and
> easy
> > to dig, i can max out my detector for depth
> there,
> > I've had a few finds at the 12" mark.
>
> Here is a Good Map of Ireland and it's Geology
> [www.explorationandmining.com]
> 28DF2CC-1A83-4AC6-8D42-B9F0970F4C57/0/Mineral_depo
> sits_map.pdf
>
> And Here is where I found it,
> [www.explorationandmining.com]
> neral+Potential/


That's a good link, i live top right where it says 'sandy brae's, perlite' there's several basalt quarries near by me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2016 03:49PM by ghound.

It seems to have all the right info, If I was looking for Gold then I would be heading way down south but I would take most my machines because there might be some pretty savage ground there in Ireland, I think that Southern Ireland would be a tough place to get good tone ID's on any detector if that Gold baring land is anything like the Dirt found in OZ. The UK's Geology maps are more of a jumble and and some what lacking.

I think it's only telling you what's below the soil-clay etc, i used to run a couple of 5 ton mini diggers and the depth of soil varies greatly here.
My own fields are about 12" top soil, then several inches of clay before hitting rock.

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> auminesweeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ghound Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > My ground locally is cruel on some detectors
> but
> > i
> > > have a permission inland about an hours drive
> > and
> > > it's fantastic!
> > > There's about 4 inch of top soil then it
> turns
> > to
> > > a sandy-fine gravel- red type soil, very
> little
> > > stone and no hot rocks or coke, very mild and
> > easy
> > > to dig, i can max out my detector for depth
> > there,
> > > I've had a few finds at the 12" mark.
> >
> > Here is a Good Map of Ireland and it's Geology
> >
> [www.explorationandmining.com]
>
> >
> 28DF2CC-1A83-4AC6-8D42-B9F0970F4C57/0/Mineral_depo
>
> > sits_map.pdf
> >
> > And Here is where I found it,
> >
> [www.explorationandmining.com]
>
> > neral+Potential/
>
>
> That's a good link, i live top right where it says
> 'sandy brae's, perlite' there's several basalt
> quarries near by me.

Well if there are Basalt Rocks near you they will make Any detector scream, Even the Minelab GPX series' don't like them But the Whites TDI SL and the TDI pro will Ignore them by ground balancing as normal and when you find one of them rock If you up the Delay to about 12 to 13 the Basalt will vanish but you won't loose sensitivity.

John.

Oddly enough they have found gold up north in the Sperrin Mountains, i think they were for selling the rights for it a while back, but that's roughly 8 miles away from my best hunting ground i mentioned above, just so many variables.

Gold & Silver in Northern IrelandNorthern Ireland is arguably the most prospective area of the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland for precious metal deposits. Alluvial gold has been recovered since Celtic times when it was used to produce ornate artefacts. Modern-day exploration commenced in the late 1970s. GSNI regional geochemical and geophysical surveys have greatly assisted target selection and have helped exploration companies to define licence areas. The Dalradian basement rocks of the Sperrin Mountains have been the main focus of exploration but recent work has identified additional prospective areas.The Sperrin Mountains of Counties Tyrone and Londonderry have been the most explored area in recent times. The results of the 1976 GSNI survey, over areas underlain by the Neoproterozoic Dalradian rocks (c. 590Ma) confirmed the auriferous potential of the area and in the early 1980s bedrock gold mineralisation in quartz veins was discovered in Curraghinalt Burn. Work has continued on the Curraghinalt prospect (currently licenced to Dalradian Resources) and to date, approximately 26,000 meters of drilling in over 250 drill holes has brought the NI 43–101 compliant resource to 1.56Moz Au indicated and inferred.


.
Think I'll invest in a Gold detector lol

I think Ireland has to be one of if not the prettiest places in the world, I stayed there for a week or two back in 2006, Only trouble was I never took a detector with me,