Targets at depth reporting as iron tone

I'm a new member here and have only been detecting for about two and a half years. But because of the information and help provided on this forum, I feel like a seasoned detectorist at times. Lol But really the information provided is valuable to a new person getting into the hobby. I've been really surprised at what is left in the ground. I won't go into details on finds, but I have found many coins and items most would call bucket list items. I believe having old spots with the ability to use the latest and greatest detectors makes it easier to find the "hard to get" finds. Just wanted to tell all those contributors, thanks! With that out of the way I'm very curious about targets at depth sounding like iron. I'm already addicted to owning too many machines and playing with them in my year old test garden. I guess what I'm asking is: do all vlf machines make nonferrous sound like iron at depth? I know my CTX does on extremely deep coins. Thanks again. I love this forum.

There are two possible reasons:
* It's designed into the electronics of the machine. If they designed the circuitry such that 'too weak' signals reported as non-iron, you'd end up digging a lot of deep holes in order to retrieve nails etc. This would rapidly become tiring, to be polite.
* The ground itself is like a sea of tiny iron. So when you pass your coil above a target, you see a combination of 'tiny iron' and 'silver coin'. When the 'silver coin' is sufficiently weak, the combined signal when swept looks more like a change from 'tiny iron' to 'larger iron' to 'tiny iron'. Hence the iron-tone is produced.

My thinking, some machines have filters so as you don't hear deep coins that hit above there max on there ID scale, so you hardly ever hear iron tone for deep coins, they probably have less issues with wrap round, but also less depth?
Some soil is iron mineralised and overpower the coin at a certain depth.

I once got a very weak iron signal out on an old dairy pasture field, as I circled the target my xterra 70 showed -6 (iron) from 3 directions, I hit prospect mode and listened to the true all metal sound...it sounded perfect..just a tiny soft swell sounding from the depths, I was about 80-90% sure it would be non ferrous and did not hesitate to dig. At about 8-9 inches I saw a grey disc at the bottom of the hole, I reached down and lifted the grey disc up to the blue sky above, a face looked out from the coin which I recognised as Henry VIII, a satisfied smile was on my face, I had found this coin by knowing my machine so well.


So yes you have to dig those weak iron signals IF you know your detector well enough that you dig non ferrous more often than Iron.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 10:07PM by james1969.

james1969 that's the kind of signal I'm wondering about and does it apply to all machines? Thanks for responding ground,and Pimento your post have my wheels spinning.

Personally, if im on poor soil and the target on my detector reads -88 -89 -90 ( out of a scale of -90 to +90) and it sounds round and correct in my minds eye, it gets dug.

Yes deep targets especially lower conductors or smaller coin sizes especially can have Iron tinge to even a solid iron hit at times..That is if you have a iron tone..if you don't have a iron tone it will just be blanked and ignored..

Its the types of mineral that can cause it..HIgher F.e soil for sure can envelope the weeker hits in the snapshot..

That's why it's nice to see machine offering less filtering of Rejected signals intelligently enough to give more of a fighting chance..

Another great deep hunter tool if the sites are not too polluted is to have Mixed modes Disc/All metal in unison and be able to hear ROUND all metal reports out of reach of disc circuit's..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Welcome Blackflag.

I can just speak on what I have noticed.
Your CTX running traditional disc levels using multi tones. In medium to milder soil it is what I call an efficient unit. It will most times identify a depth detectable nonferrous as nonferrous. When depth reaches certain depth, detection just drops out. Now ID could be bouncing around doing the checkerboard squares I call it on fringe depth detected. I won't say detecting a deeper nonferrous find can't and won't happen (be IDed as iron).
Using more traditional Vlf units they are more prone.

Now in higher soil minerals the CTX odds of IDing nonferrous as ferrous are far greater and in real high mineral soil it is quite common to see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2018 10:44PM by Sod-buster.

That's a peach of a coin James!
I loved my 705, never found a hammered with it, but i know plenty of folk who did.

james1969 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I once got a very weak iron signal out on an old d
> airy pasture field, as I circled the target my xte
> rra 70 showed -6 (iron) from 3 directions, I hit p
> rospect mode and listened to the true all metal so
> und...it sounded perfect..just a tiny soft swell s
> ounding from the depths, I was about 80-90% sure i
> t would be non ferrous and did not hesitate to dig
> . At about 8-9 inches I saw a grey disc at the bot
> tom of the hole, I reached down and lifted the gre
> y disc up to the blue sky above, a face looked out
> from the coin which I recognised as Henry VIII, a
> satisfied smile was on my face, I had found this c
> oin by knowing my machine so well.
> [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/shrike5000/me
> dia/20120303_210941.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photo
> bucket.com/albums/v488/shrike5000/20120303_210941.
> jpg[/IMG][/URL]
>
> So yes you have to dig those weak iron signals IF
> you know your detector well enough that you dig no
> n ferrous more often than Iron.

Is gen (d) mode on Impact what you are talking about Keith? Which other machines have the mixed disc/all metal modes you are talking about?

Blackflag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is gen (d) mode on Impact what you are talking abo
> ut Keith? Which other machines have the mixed di
> sc/all metal modes you are talking about?

Impact
MXT
Rutus

maybe 1 or 2 others out there but those 3 for sure

Ok thanks MRH, I've got 2 of the 3 covered. Do they really get more depth in all metal?

Blackflag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok thanks MRH, I've got 2 of the 3 covered. Do the
> y really get more depth in all metal?


Yes

"All metal" - that is a true all metal threshold based/static mode is running with 0 filters so not only does it see ALL metals but it's free to penetrate to max depth unlike on a disc circuit all metal mode (like on an AT Pro) as an example. That's not a true all metal mode - it's just a wide open disc mode accepting all metals but still running through filters.

You can expect on avg. a good inch or 2 in extra depth (maybe more) depending on machine and coil used when using a true all metal mode.

I've not used an MXT, i have had the Rutus and thought the all metal was a little weak on small items. The Signum has a cracking dual mode, the all metal has lots of adjustments with it, it's the main channel i listen to.
If your running ground filters, hot rock filters etc in the disc channel this can affect depth, but the all metal side still picks up the deeper stuff that the disc channel misses.

Was testing MXT in relic mode with 10x5 sef coil with gain maxed and ground locked. It was breaking threshold on 12" coins. Might have to get 10x12 sef coil. Also tried Impact on gen(d) also breaking threshold but had stock coil. No telling what you would dig by hunting like that but it's going to be deep for sure. Thanks

I'm not sure if you can get a Mars 10"x6" for the MXT, i think it a decent performer, in my soil it's almost as deep on small stuff as my Deus was with 11" coil.


[youtu.be]



Blackflag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was testing MXT in relic mode with 10x5 sef coil w
> ith gain maxed and ground locked. It was breaking
> threshold on 12" coins. Might have to get 10x12 se
> f coil. Also tried Impact on gen(d) also breaking
> threshold but had stock coil. No telling what you
> would dig by hunting like that but it's going to b
> e deep for sure. Thanks

Theres a few machine taht can offer the MIXED mode Flag.

And yes Gen(d) on Impact is one

The greatest one to ever too it and most conveying is a Nautilus DMC 2b..Actually feels like two detectors running one coil.

there's also

MXT Excellent

Rutus 71 Excellent

V3i
DFX
XLT
Quantum
Eagles

AT-GOLD AT MAX

705 but limited to only iron grunt in all metal then not a deep disc when used

I like a true Unison feel for nuanced hits

the MXT to me is the best available because of coil choices if you cant get a Nautilus

It can be time consuming at first but after awhile you can ease into more busy sites while still utilizing mixed modes..

I cut my teeth hunting all metal so the added disc in unison was/is a bonus..

Mixed modes are also great ways to learn WHY a target of conductance acts like it does to metal detector disc circuit Vs all metal..

You can actually judge conductance of a target by the approach timing report of target according to frequency used on the machine..

Take a Nautilus on 14Khz i believe it is..large item that may false high tone even...you will hear the threshold rise way before the disc decides to spit or signal the iron wooooomp-pip-wooooomp...a low conductor say a nickle will get the threshold rise before the disc report by a split second.like woomp-beep-woomp.....But a high target like a silver quarter will be wo-beep-wo just barely any rise to the threshold before the beep overtakes it almost in complete unison..

Then of course the real magic can happen on just the tight whisper woomp no beeb..those are the ones that can excite you.learn traits of that all metal channel and nails will be wo-wo but a solid woomp and modulated no beep involved or just a scratch of a beep and another level has opened up!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Which coil do I need to get the best depth on MXT? My soil is mild loamy type. I've got several sites that are going to get some mixed mode training time.

Hey Todd!!

For me I like the 8x6 SEF and the 10x12 SEF

The 10x12 seems to separate at depth better compared to the 12 ultimate and has about same depth..it really holds the threshold smooth on the 10x12 too if your after whispers...and tells nail as wah wah sound cleaner that are deep..

the 8x6 is a great medium to high trash coil..

For those who don't know Blackflag has found some great finds and hope he shares pics SOON!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Thanks for the kind words buddy. 10x12 SEF for sure, have to go back and research how to post pictures on a forum. I guess I'll go ahead and introduce myself as well lol. Todd Fayard from deep down in the piney woods of Mississippi

Hey Blackflag, do you take your name from the band or the insecticide? I'm a huge fan of the band.

No, my real hobby is racing sprintcars on dirt and some pavement. I build several 360 and 410 sprintcars engines each year and blackflag is what I call them.

I got this cross today...... 14k and since we were talking about targets hitting like or very near the sound of iron i thought id post it. It was right at 7" deep and a couple of feet about the water line in an area that tends to pull targets off the beach when it floods. All this trash ..... like small iron tends to accumulate. I dont believe anyone except someone playing with a PI would have dug this cross by its self. Like someone said you dont know what you missed if you missed it.

[metaldetectingforum.com]

Dew