F80

So much for a new Fisher detector on the 80th anniversary 1931-2011. I think fished dropped a ball on that one.

How negative!

(((( Hold your horses ))))

Most of us are waiting for the next platform from Fisher. it could be so different it will even blow Tom's socks off. So waiting a bit longer is ok with me.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Good things come to those who wait. Lawrenzo, good to see ya postin, stay strong.

While I'm actually VERY excited over what is to come around the bend , I'm focusing more now on older Analog machines that I missed out on in my younger years .....Honing in on more of the basics .....KISS .......It's keeping me busy and training my ears at the same time .....Jim

I agree with you synthnut.

Even though I own a F75LE... I find that I am stepping back to the simpler times of the analog CZ detectors like the CZ6a and CZ3d. They work fine in both sand and black dirt.

Indeed some of the detectors in my arsenal have some years on them and lack many of the bells and whistles of newer ones but have audio variances that the newer ones don't have so don't leave home without one as it may trounce your better than sliced bread unit that cost big bucks.

Rick...... funny you mention. Recently, I had the day off........... and hunted all day with a CZ-6 (converted to CZ-3D) with 10.5" coil. The electronics inside the box are 21 years old and the platform architect is even older; yet, what a quiet/solid/reliable/confident unit. A substantially more 'human-ear friendly' platform to use. A huge break from the F75 SE. I do find myself reverting back to the CZ platform quite frequently. Interesting how old the CZ platform is....... yet, in many dirt conditions (especially my sandy Florida soil)....... there is nothing that supercedes this platform..... for the type of 'large open field' hunting that I was performing. In this configuration...... it is the deepest med/high and high conductor detector on the open market. And what a 'silent search' unit this is; non-fatiguing.

YET........... of the 18 acres that were hunted (sampled thus far)............ only 2 small iron patches were found...... where some form of a structure/civilization existed......(and not documented anywhere in the annals of history). Both being about 45' x 25'. A very small parcel..... as compared to the entire 18 acres. Subconsciously...... I completely steered-clear of these iron/nail-rich areas....... as the CZ will suffer performance failure in thick/dense iron...... especially with the 5-gallon volume 10.5" concentric coil. (((Wrong tool for this kind of job))).

Interestingly............. with the 2 small iron infested areas............ I immediately ran-to/switched-over to the F75 platform for a few moments to 'site sample'........... recovering some of the non-ferrous targets (so as to 'attempt' to "date" the site). A few non-ferrous targets indeed came to light.....in short order. Era is approx 1858 - 1866. Because of the amount of iron targets in the ground; once again, I can easily tell/conclude that over 95% of the non-ferrous targets are still masked. Of the few non-ferrous targets recovered..... I just had to verify (for my own curiosity).... if the CZ (with 10.5" coil) would detect the targets. And to no surprise; 'no joy'. Even though the F75 operates on a fairly high frequency...... making it hyper-sensitive to iron.......... subsequently masking itself out much more readily...because of this iron........... it is in the elliptical DD coil coupled to the very fast microprocessor electronics...... that still allows for 'some' (very limited) unmasking. If only to have a much lower operating frequency detector (coin resonant frequency).......... with elliptical DD coil............. coupled to a extremely fast microprocessor; subsequently desensitizing the unit to iron..... yet, resonating (sensitized) on med/high and high conductors. I could care less if the unit is a analog or digital platform...... as I only care about 'real-time' real-world/in-the-dirt performance.

I switched back to the CZ for the rest of the day....... as my brain/ears were not in the mood for hyper-steroid F75 audio.

NASA-Tom --

Reading this quote of yours...

Quote

recovering some of the non-ferrous targets (so as to 'attempt' to "date" the site). A few non-ferrous targets indeed came to light.....in short order. Era is approx 1858 - 1866. Because of the amount of iron targets in the ground; once again, I can easily tell/conclude that over 95% of the non-ferrous targets are still masked.

...is fascinating. It's so interesting when you have the time to do a little "brain dump" like that...you went into some detail, and when you give enough info such that we can read between the lines and see what you brain was doing -- it's just fascinating. How you can recover "a few non-ferrous targets" and date a site is amazing; how you are able to understand what degree of masking you are dealing with, what machine to use and why, what machine running at what frequency would be better -- all based on the amount of iron you are hitting...just WOW.

The things going on in your mind, and the info stored up there, is simply incredible!

Thanks for sharing...

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2012 07:02AM by steveg.

And you are witnessing/reading only 1/10th of what I can share. ((( You should take my 7-hour one-on-one training course..... and see if you walk away "different" ))).

Desperation and burning passion is what has caused (forced) me to find the absolute best equipment...... to maximize time & efficiency for site recovery(s). When you get older ..... "Infallible lifetime" is no longer in your vocabulary!

**it is in the elliptical DD coil coupled to the very fast microprocessor electronics...... that still allows for 'some' (very limited) unmasking.**

I wouldn't have expected the CZ-3D's concentric co-planar coil to compete fully with the tighter field of the F75 DD coil when unmasking in the vertical or horizontal planes, and it apparently does well but not up to the DD coil.

Question on the CZ-3D: Has your personal testing revealed any significant differences between older CZ-3Ds and the latest production runs?

Question on the F75: In testing results in horizontal unmasking with ferrous and non-ferrous using the F-75 DD substantially different than the board test demo done by (the late) John Lynn? I've seen the F-75 process horizontal non-ferrous targets extremely fast - with discrete separation. Is there an iron masking issue in the horizontal, where the F-75 tends to blend and mask the non-ferrous target, in your experience?


** If only to have a much lower operating frequency detector (coin resonant frequency).......... with elliptical DD coil............. coupled to a extremely fast microprocessor.**

It is said that -3db coin resonance runs from less than 1 kHz on silver, 3 kHz on dime/cent, to 17 kHz and higher on nickels and thin rings and jewelry. If true, the F-75 at 7.8 kHz and all single-freq machines should be at a disadvantage as compared to multi-freq machines on coins if the physics is accurate. When it comes to multi-freq machine with DD coils and good processor, the ideal coin-detector would probably lean toward the E-Trac with DD coil running from 1.5 kHz to 100 kHz. Its processor is probably faster than the similar Explorer SE. Going slow with the E-Trac (in two tone, ferrous sound) should permit unmasking equaling the F-75 and hit harder on a broader range of deep coins/jewelry. Thoughts?

John

Johnny,
the F75 runs at 13KHz. Hence Tom's earlier wish for a 5 kHz-ish F75 for his nail-pit.
If they weren't so expensive, that would be one project I'd have considered having a go at....

**the F75 runs at 13KHz.**

So it does - was thinking of the Omega.

Hmmm, how about Fisher designs a new DD coil for the CZ-3D. You'd get 5 kHz and 15 kHz on an existing outstanding detector platform. Win-win.

Quote:
Question on the CZ-3D: Has your personal testing revealed any significant differences between older CZ-3Ds and the latest production runs?

I can say this. I have a Tom tuned (validated) 1021 CZ-3D which Tom says gets a 12" clad dime in his test garden. I also purchased a brand new CZ-3D (Texas unit) from him which he also validated.
They perform exactly the same depth wise and ID wise.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And you are witnessing/reading only 1/10th of what
> I can share. ((( You should take my 7-hour
> one-on-one training course..... and see if you
> walk away "different" ))).
>
> Desperation and burning passion is what has caused
> (forced) me to find the absolute best
> equipment...... to maximize time & efficiency for
> site recovery(s). When you get older .....
> "Infallible lifetime" is no longer in your
> vocabulary!

i'm NOT a "fatalist",however there is definitely an element of truth in
that statement!.as paul newman so eloquently offered to richard boone
in the movie "hombre",and i quote: "we all die,it's just a question of when!"

(h.h!)
j.t.

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Johnny,
> the F75 runs at 13KHz. Hence Tom's earlier wish
> for a 5 kHz-ish F75 for his nail-pit.
> If they weren't so expensive, that would be one
> project I'd have considered having a go at....


this has been a "concern" of mine as well
over time.the thought occurs that (f.t.) POSSIBLY COULD
develop a f-75 with a proper lower coin frequency with all
OTHER attributes intact.they DID develop the tek omega 8000
with a 7.8 khz frequency specifically for coin sniping,so one can "assume"
it was a "marketing" decision,as to WHY the f-75 was developed with a more
"universal 13 khz frequency to satisfy BOTH relic,and coin shooters..just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

NASA-Tom:

You said:

Quote

And you are witnessing/reading only 1/10th of what I can share.

I'm SURE that's the case! Your post was a glimpse into how you "think" a hunt; I can't imagine all the things that have simply become "second nature" to you, and yet would be mind-blowing to me...

You also said:

Quote

((( You should take my 7-hour one-on-one training course..... and see if you walk away "different" )))

No doubt about that...I would LOVE to take that course. It's definitely on the "wish list" -- an outstanding opportunity that I'd LOVE to take advantage of. I'm sure my family will be making another trip to the central FL area at some point in the next couple of years; I intend to work it into the trip to spend the day training with you -- presuming finances allow (which is NOT a certainty, given what is going on currently with our economy, but that's a branch I don't want to go off on right now!)

In the mean time, there wouldn't be the possibility of any new training videos to tide me over, would there?!

Steve

Steve......... we are still working on the real-world beach DVD. No target date for release yet.

You should send me a sneak copy of that Tom ....ummm just to make sure its up to you normal high standard lol.

Dew

Raw footage has too many bloopers!

And that's a bad thing? Is there such a thing as TOO MANY BLOOPERS? I love bloopers. Unless they are of me...
PastTom

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

heya Bloopers tape would be kewl

For who!!!

An Omega 8000 with dual processors, and a curcuit to work on the EMI issues you get with all newer Fishers(That Ive owned) would be great. I have owned both the GBSE and the 8000 and while the GBSE was better than the 8000 for working around power lines I have had to go to my Safari to get by that issue when I hunt in the city. The GBSE had the fastest recovery I seen but with only 2 yrs under my belt Im still a newbe. It made my Safari look like a snail but yet its my go to MD.

I wonder if it is a QC issue? My 8000 & GBSE almost never show EMI restrictions. I have hunted wide open (with 11" DD coils) under huge power lines and not noticed them. I had issues there when I used my F2 and the 11" DD. My CZ-5 was fine too. I'll let you know how the F75se does when it comes next week.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

My Omega is pretty sensitive to EMI. Actually I have to dial down the sens to about the same levels as my Tek T2 when hunting same urban areas. This is with the DD coils. Personally I like having sens to spare instead of the factory dialing it down to make it sound smoother/more stable like they did on the Tek G2.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2012 05:44AM by TerraDigger.