Which detector IDs deep coin the best?

I look at the other metal detecting forums. I pay special attention to the Fisher F75se, Etrac, Explorer, and the White's V3i subforum post the most. I see plenty of folks using the different brands of detectors trying to obtain good target identification (TID) at depth on 7" plus inches on coins. I see folks using quarters for their comparison test with different settings to try and obtain the best results. I see some folks who think they have the supreme machine for coin ID at depths. I see folks that can't seem to make the connection between coin ID, depth, soil conditions and how it relates to the very detector they are employing. I see some that think a machine's setting will override the entire ground's effects, thus providing TID at depth. I see where maybe some folks may have been mislead in their detector of choice when in comes to target identification at depth. I see some users who just won't believe their own eyes and some even try and make excuses and blame it on a machine's settings for sub par coin TID at depth. I see very few people admit it's something (TID at depth) you just have to live with and take your chances and dig. Not all metal detectors are created equal, nor do they cost the same. And the most expensive unit doesn't always guarantee success or provide superior performance in all detecting environments. I see detecting scenarios discussed and read something like this, "Brand A model B could see everything Brand X model Y could see". Key word here is "see" . What does this statement really mean? Does it mean both detectors gave a tone, good TID? And how good was the tone? And just exactly which detector could have had more user error or detector error induced and still discovered the "comparison target" and give a signal to make a dig decision. I realize some of this confusion and questions may be resolved by some with more experience with their machines, but I see some very experienced users who just can't/won't come to grips with their detector's limitations when it comes to TID at depth.

Well first you have to dial in the operator , his neck of the woods, his detector and his ability to operate same as all these facets will certainly cause variances from individual to individual.

Having used a bunch over the years the Explorers series with its audio, numbers and cursor would be my choice and certainly the answers you get should vary greatly so should be an interesting thread.

Indeed useable depth and the ability to get accurate ID is of upmost importance especially in my neck of the woods where targets sink deep over the years...

CZ's ...... then F75's ........ then Minelab's.

Add bad dirt............ and this equation changes.

We have compared before digging the target and the E-trac always will better ID than the F75....I have dug coins in a cornfield and dug iron tones( before digging )as there are not many signals left and dug silver dimes than ID'd as iron....I think the E-trac as far as coins is very hard to beat.. even thought the cz will get you more nickles, but I really like diging the silver more than nickles....

First if you are looking for depth, forget the TID. I have seen people with the older units, that are tone only, digging very deep targets. If you are looking for a steady TID before you dig then you are missing a lot of the good stuff.
A Troy, CZ, Tesoro will reward you more if you train your ears and not your eyes. That is the problem, most people want the detector to do most of the work. Tell you what, where and how deep.
Ground condition will cause different results with different units when it comes to the display. All I want to see is what is in my mind when I hear that faint ting ting ting.......

As far as a Unit with TID

Clean sites ETRAC
older sites CZ
trashy sites F75

An ETRAC with very low discrimination and a super slow sweep speed is hard to beat on any location.

this is just my thought and "I approve this message"

Tom in SC

I think the more important question is how do the various machines distinguish deep coins from deep iron? If the machine is providing a coin ID on deep nails or iron trash, then it doesn't count as a good discriminator at depth...luck of the draw at that point.

In my soil and the areas I hunt I think it would have to be the Etrac, CZ, Omega. I have never tried the F75 so I cant comment on it.

In my area and ground as far as pure raw depth a''properly tuned'' CZ-3D. As far as I.D. at depth hands down Explorer/Etrac.

in the uk where coins can be up to 2000 years old you could get many answers on the differing brands ,they all make good finds .

In my 1% iron mineralized ground (measurement via V3i's ground probe) the E-Trac wins hands down over the Omega, T2 and V3i. It is not even close.

In sweet ground I hear the V3i holds it's VID very very well, as does the F75, T2.

The Minelab GPX will blow them all away for coins at crazy depths and for never wavering on how it reads them. It will always give a low tone for high conductive targets and can effectively give iron breakup "discrimination" down to about 12 inches or so on nail size objects and a little beyond that on larger iron. You wont dig any aluminum can slaw or pull tabs, or other common aluminum or foil trash if you ignore the high tones, which are the low-mid conductors....the only thing I would add to the GPX would be the ability to turn one side of the audio off.

What I mean is, if you could do on the GPX like you can on the TDI....have a toggle selection to where you can hear just the low conductor targets, or just the high conductor targets, and of course if you wanted to hear both you could do that too. That would be a coin hunters ultimate machine right there...nothing and I mean NOTHING in good or bad dirt could come close to it per depth or that form of tone ID. If that were available, you could put that dude in high conductive only, and eliminate most all common trash you encounter while coin hunting. The only thing you'd lose by doing that would be nickels and gold, but the trade off would be the advantage of never having to worry about how severe the ground is, and then being able to easily detect a silver dime at 18-20 inches in any soil with an 11" DD coil, and sensitivity set at halfway. Lets see your eTrac do that :-)

Then what I'd do is find somebody to make a round DD coil in the 5 - 8 inch size, just to be able to down size the coil for trashy sites. And with a 5" coil, you'd still be getting a silver dime with correct tones at 13-15 inches. I know on the TDI, I had a 5.25 inch Razorback coil. I had a silver dime buried in my yard at around 8-9 inches (will have to verify this by my video archive) that the TDI was smoking it with a low tone with that little coil....I will show a video as soon as I can find a fast WiFi connection to upload it. And the GPX is several more inches deeper than the TDI is, so with that same size coil I would guess very closely that a dime at 13-15 inches would be very obtainable. To my knowledge, nobody makes a DD coil that small for the GPX. They make a 6x10 DD, but that's the smallest that I am aware of....and I owned one of those, which could hit the same dime spoken about above, with its lowest sensitivity setting and still accurately ID it as a high conductive tone.

Question is....how much are you willing to spend for something like that? Well a used GPX will run you around $2500-$3500 depending on whether its the 4000/4500 or the newer 4800/5000. All four are basically the same thing...the only differences are some added timings to the new ones, and they only apply to gold prospecting for making them more sensitive to small fine gold. The timings you would be using for coin and relic hunting, are the exact same on all 4 units, so you're not gaining anything by going to a new one vs the 4000-4500....other than if you're picky about your machine having a warranty or not. I know that's a steep chunk of change but considering the eTrac and V3i will run you $1,300-$1,500 new, and additional coils would add more to that...well basically you're knocking at the door of a GPX anyway. Most of us have 2 or 3 or more of these $1,000 units anyway, so there ya go...a man could sell them, put the money towards a GPX, and nothing currently on the market could touch you for depth and coin ID. Then all you'd need would be a cheaper machine...something with a fast processor on it, and with a small coil so you could work in really trashy areas, or to scout new sites with so you don't have to lug the GPX around.

But an E-trac will tell you by numbers at 12'' if you have a silver dime,quarter or half! Lets see your GPX do that!

Daniel --

Very interesting info on the GPX, as I didn't realize there was ANY discrimination or ID ability on a PI unit, until just recently. I thought it was simply a tone on any type of metal -- iron, coin, relic, or otherwise. Still, I know NASA-Tom has said you have to be VERY experienced to be successful with a PI unit...they must be difficult to use, if you aren't quite well-versed in detecting and detectors?

Steve

eTrac wont do that here Harold. You MIGHT get the silver half at 12 inches but not a quarter or dime. This I know for fact. At 7 inches in our ground, the eTrac begins reading a silver dime as iron...wont even pick it up in disc mode by using just the "extensive nail pattern" that you can download from the Minelab website. It just nulls on it. Yep I have it on video that I am getting ready to put it together with more video I done today in actual real world hunt. I sold off all of my big silver coins and don't have a silver half to test at 12" but in this dirt it would be pushing it, I can guarantee you that. I know all soil conditions are different and machines handle ground types different...BUT from what I've personally seen with mine, I would be hard pressed to believe it could do a true 12 inches anywhere with the stock coil. I'm not saying it probably can't be done but I'd have to be standing there to witness it to believe it. I've seen some mighty good videos on YouTube with folks and eTracs in a lot better ground than I have here, that were getting jumpy numbers and tones on silver coins just 9-10 inches deep. It's still a good machine, but I was expecting a lot more from all the forum hype/talk about it. Maybe I was expecting way too much, but I was sure let down. And besides...everybody on every forum I've ever been to says you don't pay attention to the numbers on it anyway...you go by tones. And I've noticed most of the more successful ones with it, aren't running multi tones with it anyway...most are using it with two tones. And all it does with two tones, is the same basic thing the GPX is doing with its tone system.

Today REALLY confirmed something I had been suspecting with the eTrac. I took it relic hunting today against an "old friend", and my new toy....the Fisher CoinStrike....which I am renaming the RelicStrike. Or maybe the eTracThumper, but that's a little too cocky lol But it sure thumped it BAD. I dug several bullets that I was able to check with both machines, and had planned on videoing everything but my battery must be going bad...I charged it all last night and it barely lasted long enough to do two videos today. I ended up with 6 minie balls today ranging between 3 to 13.5 inches deep, all tested with the two machines ground balanced at the exact spot of each marked signal before we tested them and dug them. Every advantage should have gone to the eTrac....bigger coil, and it being a DD coil at that, plus it being a multi frequency FBS machine in some of the hottest dirt I've ever found in Tennessee. But it was thumped bad by a discontinued single frequency machine with an 8" concentric coil. I set them both up in disc mode with just enough to knock out a square nail. I got enough on video to drive the point home though.

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Steveg -- I think the required user experience level is dependent on which particular PI machine you go with. They are different but they aren't THAT hard to be successful with. Prior to getting my first TDI, I had only ran VLF machines. Ground balancing it was the same as any other manual GB machine...set the threshold to a steady humming sound...pump the coil slowly and listen for one of two things..if it is out of balance, it will either give a low tone when you lower it to the ground or give a high tone when you lower it....you move the GB knob clockwise or counterclockwise pending on which tone it gave you when you lowered the coil...and your goal is to find the transition point between those two points, where it makes no sound when you lower it. It's very simple to do. It took me longer to type it than actually do it in the field. The TDI has a pulse delay control...basically the lower the number its set at, the more sensitive it is to smaller things...and vice versa....you set it to where you want it and, ground balance, and off you go. The TDI will give you a LOW tone for high conductive targets and will give you a HIGH tone for low conductive targets....there is no confusing the tones, and it has the toggle switch I spoke of earlier...where you can set it to hear JUST the low tones, or JUST the high tones, or ALL for hearing both....not really discriminating, but you wont hear any can slaw, foils, etc, if you opt to put it in HIGH tone mode. It's pretty straight forward. The hard part on the TDI...is telling nails from high conductive targets. Basically the same thing happens on it, as what happens with VLF machines too...when you get that "wrap around" type deal. Basically it's just a two tone system...listen for which of the two tones the items you are looking for fall in under, and dig. Basically on the TDI and GPX, the tone cut off seems to be the pull tab range...any thing higher conductive than a pulltab will give a low tone (high conductive).

The GPX is a bit more complex with its settings...but many of them you'll just leave at factory presets, unless the conditions call for it...such as high EMI areas and such. It operates by timings...which I don't know all the engineering hoopla about it but I think it's a glorified way for setting the pulse delay...because some of the timings are less sensitive to smaller things...an some are more sensitive to micro size things. The tone system is basically the same as the TDI as far as low and high conductors go. The advantage here swings to the GPX...in which it offers a crude form of iron discrimination....where it will break up or null on iron. It only works with the DD coils though...gold prospectors for the most part, will use mono coils (they go deeper and are more sensitive to small micro size gold) but with mono coils, there is no discrimination.

Daniel I think either your ground is super hot or you got a lemon for an E-trac or both. My ground is moderate I have I.D. dimes,quarters and one half at 12'' maybe a hair less,But not much. I'm sure there is alot of E-trac/Explorer users on this forum who can back me up. This is also not with the stock coins pattern it is with a more open screen like the one Andy Sabisch suggests in his book on the E-trac. And sens. at +3.

In my dirt......... the E-Trac will detect (and 'fairly accurately'' ID a clad (or silver dime)) to 12". My dirt is nearly silica. In another area of Florida....... where mineralization is somewhat agressive........... the E-Trac will ID a clad dime fairly accurately .... to only a depth of 7". The CZ and F75 are good..... to only 5.75" in this same 'agressive' dirt.

I would also like to add that at extreme depth your not getting the classic Minelab silver warble,on the E-trac your getting a clipped or reapeatable clicking sound as I call it. But the I.D. numbers are fairly consitant maybe dropping a point or two. But you can still tell the difference between dime,quarter,and half once you get use to that type of tone.

Daniel -- thanks much for your further info on the PI units...very well-explained...doesn't sound TOO complex, and I thank you much;

NASA-Tom, two things...one -- can you briefly respond to Daniel's comments aimed at me regarding PI units, in light of that "caution" you posted recently about "only a very experienced user," (or something to that effect), may wish to try a PI unit? Daniel doesn't make it sound so bad -- but obviously you have reservations.

ALSO -- can you give just a bit more detail above when you say the E-Trac was "fairly accurately" IDing a dime? Just curious...as that test you did in the "aggressive" Florida dirt sounds fairly similar to the dirt in my test garden, that dirt being a little bit "hotter" than mine. Along those lines, in my garden, my "accurate ID with depth" results would be slightly better than yours (within an inch or so) with most good VLF units (including a CZ-3D and an F70). However, in my garden I'd do quite a bit better than 7" of "good" ID with an FBS unit...on the CO number. FE number, though, will start increasing substantially beyond a 6 to 7-ish inch mark, similar to what you mentioned. You may have counted an "increasingly bad" FE number as "ID deteriorating," whereas -- since I'm used to that, I would not have, as I'd be focused on the CO number -- and thus a possible reason for the slightly different results. Just curious.

Steve

Daniel,

Awesome info about the GPX. Etrac users around my area (Kansas) report 7'' as the limit on accurately id'ing a dime.That's when they're being honest

I think if the goal is to identify a valuable target, the mode is unimportant. I don't care how I id a deep silver coin so long as i can id it. To that end, the VDI is inconsequential. The GPX can id a dime at 18''-20"? Sign me up! And here I was saving for a CZ-3D!

Steve......... PI's (even the ones with 'some' or 'limited' ID)....... take a serious amount of 'learning curve' in order for the user/operator to utilize properly. A pulse induction unit has a completely different ID system from a VLF............. and iron & high-conductive coins take a bit of a learning curve to properly educate (skill-set). If you ever get the chance to test/try a PI unit...... take advantage of the opportunity........ it's a 'eye-opener'.

The CO numbers on the E-Trac were ID'ing in the 'tab range'....... up to the half-dollar range on the VDI. If the dime had been buried another 1/2"..... the ID would exclusively present a iron nail response........... both FE and CO.

I tell you what if you guys don't believe me go to the Findmall forum and look at the latest video put up by Ray ,MO. and look at the depth and I.D. hes is getting on a whole bunch of seateds he dug. And ask him about I.D. at depth with the E-trac! He is one of the Guru's with the E-trac. I'm kind of suprised not more E-trac/Explorer users on this forum aren't agreeing with me?

Guess ID is up for interpetation and our moderator picked a CZ....as much as I like CZ's have two boxes of wheat pennies that came in the high coin facet of CZ's and could have been a dime, quarter, half, silver dollar, large cent etc....Explorer hands down as audio, number and cursor movement give us a darn good idea of what we are digging deep or not so Harold you are spot on and get my vote....Now as far depth goes coil for coil CZ may be the winner but then again we are talking about our neck of the woods and of course in certain ground it might be reversed...

Thanks, NASA-Tom. Appreciate the info, on both questions.

Steve