new V3

I was at Kellyco the other day trying out a new Spectra V3.In my limited amount of time to "test" it I don't think it has near the processor speed that the F75 does.I set out a pulltab,bottlecap and dime fairly close together and swept over the targets.I had to sweep real,real slow to hit the dime.This was not so with the F75.I couldn't distinguish dimes from pennies VDI wise without using the analysis mode.Time consuming and not necessary with the F75.I will just stick with Fishers,got a new F 75 coming.Bill

yeah whites I have been told sponcers the findmall vision forum and so you can't even talk about the F75 or they will kick you off. I got a warning today to stop or I will be kicked off and all I asked is if the whites has the recovery speed of the F75 they said that is not important and then I gave up on them God I hope Fisher can come out with a newer unit to stop the whites from not being open and honest.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Hence; the justification of this forum.

......Honesty & facts prevail.

And my Safari and Etrac are faster then my F75. They all have there place. It is up to the user to match the detector to the task at hand.

Knowing your machine plays an important part of the quality of finds you locate.
But one thing for sure, if there's not a target under the coil no machine regardless of the bells and whistles (Vision or any other machine) attached will find it. I can say, since getting the F75 my good finds have increased many times over in the same areas I hunted extensively with both the Tesoro Tejon and Vaquero. It's very enjoyable to use, simple, straight forward interface makes for less programming and more hunting time. I'm keeping detailed records of my finds and will post total finds sometime in the near future.

I have never had the v3 but have had a DFX , SE . The DFX was ok but not as fast as the f75 and work ok I guess in the trash ( used 6x10 DD coil). The SE I used a x5 coil the tones were fast , but the ID in the trash socks, it just stopped , I don't care how slow you go. The f75 has very fast tone and ID will work in the trash. You know people pay a lot of money for these detectors and you would think the ID would stay up with the tones.

From what I understand the V3 is an adjustable unit like the DFX. If so, you can not just turn it on and test it against some trash next to a coin. The machine must be set to your sweep speed as well as "other" adjustments to be able to pick up a coin next to trash. I understand the F-75 is a turn on and go detector. The V3 is not. Tom has made me more aware of removing variables to perform a fair test with credible results. You also must be able to accept some disappointing results as well as the good results from your favorite machine when comparing it to "other" machines.

I understand the V3 can tell you if its a coin or a bottle cap - with certain accuracy. It will tell you if its trash, a coin or a gold ring. And, it can "see thru" trash to signal a coin below. It seems to i.d. those "iffy" signals and eliminate unnecessary digging... sounds like a plus to me. I'm not sure how deep it will go compared to the F-75, time will tell.

Please, I do not mean to step on any toes here. I'm just pointing out a few details I picked up on in this thread. All you guys are great and I mostly lurk and read... and learn!

Thanks!

Rob

Hmmmmmmm. I'd pay $1M for a unit that could perform in such a fashion.

No detector can do that no way and no how..the F75 has proved itself as a great relic hunter yeah it will wear you out and make you work but if a detector can do what the V3 can do maybe it can dig your holes also. The F75 is a great coin hunter also.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I never understood how people can be so blinded by brand loyalty. This is why I love this forum, accurate info, with no BS.

Lawrenzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No detector can do that no way and no how..the F75
> has proved itself as a great relic hunter yeah it
> will wear you out and make you work but if a
> detector can do what the V3 can do maybe it can
> dig your holes also. The F75 is a great coin
> hunter also.
You are right about it being a good coin hunter, went to a school and in 3 hrs. got 13.36 in clad. I was using the f75 and the 6x10 concentric coil. Love it

Well, I only mentioned the things the V3 is capable of that I have personally witnessed. I was very impressed! Don't get me wrong... I'm no Tom when it comes to "testing" and such BUT, I witnessed this in the "real world" hunting. It was in a fair ground parking lot, loaded with trash and there was about 15 other people detecting. 6" was about the deepest a silver coin was found and talking with the others in the group, that was as deep or deeper than anything they dug. Not exactly a great test but it is a real world scenario. As I stated, I'm not sure exactly how deep it will go compared to the F-75.

Another V3 feature is a screen that will tell you what percentage of the signal is being lost in the ground AND how much noise (EMI) is present... with those two figures, it will recommend a sensitivity setting to run for the current conditions. You can change the detector's settings to improve these figures and run a lot smoother. Another big plus.

Also, the V3 dug 114 coins vs. 20-25 total coins from the next closest digger.

Rob,

You said the V3 can "see thru" trash and see a coin beneath trash. Does this mean that the electromagnetic energy eminating from the coil is completely unaffected by the stronger/shallower signal from the trash...... and will see only the deeper coin beneath the trash.....and ID it correctly........ that you have witnessed?

And you said that you have witnessed the V3 properly ID a gold ring from trash. Is this also to say that you will never dig another piece of trash again?

I may be misunderstanding you. Time permitting; CORRECT ME!

Tom

If the above is true that the V3 he has can do all of what he calims this is a huge from any detector on the market and whites can sell if for a lot more..but I think that he has not done his homework how can you tell trash from gold? How can you see through trash and only see a coin...come on man from the forum I have been reading I see nothing more then a fancy DFX maybe the way the DFX should have worked but didn't work for me in calif. It seems three freq is not a big jump if you are not finding relics that are masked or so deep they have been missed. Lets see what Fisher has on its table....I am sure that it will be the real thing. Maybe Tom you should get your hands on this machine and do a test?

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2009 11:19PM by Lawrenzo.

Tom,

No, I did not mean the electromagnetic energy is unaffected by trash... what I meant was that the V3 will still give you a good tone from a coin even if it is in very close proximity of trash without "nulling". I have dug coins below and within an inch or two of bottle caps, pull tabs, and aluminum can shards. I have not been able to do this with any other detector.

As for IDing a gold ring specifically, no... but gold plated necklace - YES. I was shown a demonstration with a gold ring but do not have real world experience detecting one. As for never digging trash again... I wish!!! Nothing is fool proof! I will say that I dug 90% less trash than the others that was hunting there. Most of the trash I dug was learning the detector. Once I got to know what it was telling me... digging junk pretty much stopped.

OK here's the deal... the V3 operates on three frequencies and each is assigned a color (2.5KHz-green, 7.5KHz-red, 22KHz-blue). On the analyze screen, its gives you a bell curve of the three frequencies in relation to the target under the coil. The Frequency that best favors the target will dominate the bell curve (appears highest). In my situation I got a VDI # of 29 and toggled to the analyze screen and the 22KHz frequency was highest indicating gold. I dug it and it was the medallion part of a necklace (no chain).

This is also how it will I.D. a bottle cap from a coin... I got an VDI # of 83 (quarter) and a quarter signal (high tone), then toggled forward and the bell curve show the 7.5 KHz dominating. I dug several of these while learning the detector and every one was a screw cap. A good tone & VDI would have been dug for certain with another detector. I also was able to ID rusty crown caps by the 22KHz dominating on the curve.

Silver and clad is always the 2.5KHz frequency.

The analyze screen is a plus when rotating around a target that gives you a good tone with a trash tone. I was able to separate a coin from trash by moving the coil a fraction of an inch. Most certainly this would have been a missed coin without this screen with another detector.

Iron will give you a broken curve and is not a uniform bell curve... it also favors the high frequencies.

So, I hope this clears up some of the confusion. I'm not good at explaining things in print (sorry). As I said before, I was impressed with what it can do when it was demonstrated to me... I bought one and tried it myself - it's good!

Is it better than the F-75? I don't know. I think Tom and his critical testing will be the judge of that. I did not dig anything deep... 6" was about it. I know I dug a zipper center/clasp at 13" (IDed as zinc penny) with my F-75 in a farm field - thought for sure it was an Indian head!!!

You seem to be the only one so far that has that kind of testing!

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Lowboy - Its not a hard machine to operate. Its a lot easier than the DFX, I think anyway. I had the privilege of attending a White's Dealer Seminar (as a guest) where a lot of these features were explained in detail. Then it was demonstrated on the overhead screen so you could see how it works. I was a skeptic too... I thought "yeah right" until I saw it on the overhead screen working just as they said it would.

I do try to pay closer attention to the little details when I'm detecting... thanks to Tom's video. That's been the best $25 I've spent on metal detecting!

Rob

I used the F75 quite a bit.I ran the V3 in a coin huning scenario,I set up a trashy situation.Sorry the V3 didn't work as good when in my hands swinging it over a target.Just my experience.Fishers have been such good machines for me I'm now a Fisher dealer.Enuff said.Bill

Best $25 I've spent in a long time too.

schultzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lowboy - Its not a hard machine to operate. Its a
> lot easier than the DFX, I think anyway. I had the
> privilege of attending a White's Dealer Seminar
> (as a guest) where a lot of these features were
> explained in detail. Then it was demonstrated on
> the overhead screen so you could see how it works.
> I was a skeptic too... I thought "yeah right"
> until I saw it on the overhead screen working just
> as they said it would.
>
> I do try to pay closer attention to the little
> details when I'm detecting... thanks to Tom's
> video. That's been the best $25 I've spent on
> metal detecting!
>
> Rob

kickback Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used the F75 quite a bit.I ran the V3 in a coin
> huning scenario,I set up a trashy situation.Sorry
> the V3 didn't work as good when in my hands
> swinging it over a target.Just my
> experience.Fishers have been such good machines
> for me I'm now a Fisher dealer.Enuff said.Bill

Bill, I don't know what to say. Maybe the fact that I saw first hand what it is capable of, allowed me to capitalize on its ability to detect a certain way. Just curious, did you do a head to head test on that V3 and the F-75 (in your trash test scenario) if so, how did it do? I'm not married to one brand detector... I will buy and use what will put the most silver coins in my pouch!

My first outing with the V3 was at a hard and heavily hunted little park that I personally have hunted a lot as well as my hunting partner. Many others have hunted it also over the years. I dug a 1936 Buffalo Nickel (only 4" deep) in an area that I have hunted with my Minelab, DFX, and F-75. I understand that is no real test but I was tickled... as it was my first Buffalo. It gave me hope of what the machine will do for me in my area.

One has to hunt with what works best for you, in your neck of the woods. I read a lot of negative posts about the V3 without actually hunting with it and thought I would share my experiences with it to lend some insight to the decision making process. I have nothing to gain if you or anyone else believes me or not... just sharing my two cents worth of info.

Rob

It may be your soil is perfect for the V3 and others are just doing OK in their soil or you have the V3 dialed in and others are still kicking the tires. If Tom would do a test then I would be ready to take a second look!

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Lawrenzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It may be your soil is perfect for the V3 and
> others are just doing OK in their soil or you have
> the V3 dialed in and others are still kicking the
> tires.

Or maybe he's a faster digger...

schultzie Wrote:
Just curious, did you do a head to
> head test on that V3 and the F-75 (in your trash
> test scenario) if so, how did it do?

I'm just glad this forum let's you ask that question.

Rob,

I like your breakdown of the V3's electronic analysis. I'm quite certain the V3 has several merits. That being said; I must say that the electromagnetic footprint of the F75/T2/F70/Omega/F5 (etc.....) units equipped w/11" elliptical DD coil is a much tighter/smaller/narrow footprint vs. the V3 footprint. This can (nearly) guarantee a better 'enhanced adjacent target separation characteristic performance' over a less-narrow EM footprint unit. What you witnessed is correct. BUT ... the real test would be to run a true, real-world head-to-head comparison........ with all subsequent variables removed out of the equation in order to ascertain.... with certainty.... true irrevocable, undeniable validity.

Something you may never see posted..... would be just exactly how the V3 reports/responds to a woman's gold engagement ring vs. the tongue of a round/ring pull-tab. I bet the response is the same. ---- And how the detector responds/reports a 'dug' Indian Head penny vs. a older style square pull-tab. I'll bet THESE are also the same ID/response.

BUT......... BUT............ BUT,,,,, this is just exactly what 'betters-the-breed' of detector design engineers... AND....... ULTIMATELY,,,, DETECTORS! I don't care if a new detector is inferior. There is an 'attempt' to better-the-breed.......... and who knows........................................................................


Tom

schultzie
The F 75 is head and shoulders above the V3 in trash.I believe the coil shape and the lightning fast processor are the factors.As for finding coins in hard hunted parks/schools etc.I have been experiencing finding old coins,not necessarily deep coins in places pounded to death with Fishers,Minelabs,Whites,Bounty Hunters etc.Finding these coins has to be because trash has been moved/removed,soil moisture,angle of coil approach,different machine setups.I'm referrring to Walking Liberty's,Buffalo/V nickels,Barber dimes,Indianhead pennies,Franklin Halves.My new theory on finding old coins at "hunted out places" is no place is ever hunted out.I never want to hunt behind NASA TOM and JOHN S(formerly the Silvermagnet).If they ever hunt together I'll put up my detector and dig targets for them.Just my thoughts and experience.Bill

Kickback - I believe you are correct as to why old coins are still being found in hard hit places. I wish I had the discipline to perform tests with all the variables removed so as to obtain clear evidence of the outcome. I can only report what I find in my experiences. I try to be as accurate as I can when doing so. LowBoy has brought up some interesting tests to experiment on and try to get some more data but removing the variables is tough... Tom knows that all to well!!! I will see what I can do.

Tom - I hear what you are saying about the narrow footprint being more effective in trash. Is there any way to "pattern" the magnetic footprint of a coil to the deepest point it is capable of detecting a target? Mineralization in soil will effect depth but does it effect the shape of the magnetic field???

Here's another question, "How do you determine when two or more detectors are tuned equally when performing a head-to-head test? They all have there own settings that prove good in certain environments... yet they are different machines. That is to say, to set both at max sensitivity or discrimination or sweep speed, etc. does not mean they are equal machines for testing purposes. That is where I struggle to find or get the facts.

Rob

I don't think there is an = with two differnt machines! What we would do is hunt an older area and when one got a target the other would see if he could hit it..if not you would tweek your machine and see if you could find it. On the F75 sens as high as you can go mono tone and a disc of 0-5. The V3 has so many options that when you and if you can hit the target you could lock that as a preset and hunt with it till you find another target. And see if you both get the same readings that would make you want to dig the target. I guess if I was hunting with a DD then the other person should have one also.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That being said; I must say that the
> electromagnetic footprint of the
> F75/T2/F70/Omega/F5 (etc.....) units equipped
> w/11" elliptical DD coil is a much
> tighter/smaller/narrow footprint vs. the V3
> footprint. > ...........................
>
>
> Tom


Tome, how is the design of the V3 coil different, compared to the F75, that you know this with some certainty?

Rob..... very good questions and observations. The best way to 'see' the footprint width on a extremely deep (fringe) target requires a little bit of trained eyes....paying extra attention to the 'width' of the sweep whilst sweeping fixed target. This NEEDS to be done with the tip, center and heel of the coil....paying attention for null/blind spots of the coil. By performing such ... you will witness .... in concert.....TWO distinct performance characteristics in medley; That being the 'tightness' of the EM footprint AND the rapidity of the microprocessor clock speed....and how they work together. (There are other lessor factors involved). The resultant usually surprises some folks. To separate the two..... and measure each ... individually..... would require some unique RF field-intensity electronic measuring equipment,,,,,,,,.............,,,,,,,,,,,, and the resultant .... individually..... would not be as important as the cumulative/composite harmonious 'merged' performance that you need to witness in real-world situations. Real-time is always the 'final answer'.
---Also, , , the tighter the footprint.... the lessor the bad-dirt interference (usually). ((( Stipulations imposed here too ))).

And you are absolutely correct about comparing two different detectors. "Overdriving" (max'ing out) both units ................ then seeing which one detects 'said' target the best,,, may simply NOT be the best resultant for one (maybe both) units. ALSO; Using brand X detector to find 50 targets........ then testing brand Y detector on those same 50 targets is ALSO unfair. This places Brand X unit at a 100% success 'starting point'.
Taking brand Y detector...to find 50 targets,,,, THEN taking brand X detector to analyze/compare on the brand Y located targets ....... would start to 'even out' the playing field. READ: "HEAD-TO-HEAD COMPARISON TESTING" article on home-page of this site..... VERY important.
This is also to say the obvious; You can find 50 targets with brand X unit. Then .... taking the SAME brand X unit,,,,,,,,,,.............. change a couple/few settings...and THEN see how this same unit handles these same 50 targets. OR......... leave the 50 targets marked.............,,,,,,,,, then come back tomorrow!
You may find there are a few targets that brand X unit will detect......... that brand Y unit will not detect. AND..... this is to say.....; You may find that brand Y unit will detect some targets that brand X unit will not see. If there exists a large disparity/differential between the two units; you will then have the solution you were looking for. One unit is the 'trump card' over the other unit.

BEST REAL-TIME, REAL-WORLD EXAMPLE: Whilst performing final head-to-head comparison testing between concentric CZ vs. elliptical DD F75...... resultants as follows:

Situation: Approx 2-acre field that had been hunted by 2 metal detecting clubs... and VERY thoroughly...................,,,,,,,,,,,,, and with many different brand units. Their (the 2 clubs) intent was to remove all non-ferrous targets.
:::: Hunting with CZ.... many targets were located and marked. ((Several different approach angles were required to find many targets)).

The F75 could find ALL of these targets that the CZ located.... except 2 targets. The F75 would then appear to be 'somewhat' inferior to the CZ.... as the F75 could not detect two targets.

BUT......... THEN......... after recovering all of these targets out of the ground......... THEN taking the F75 to this same field...after the CZ was done........ and the F75 made this particular field 'appear' to be UNhunted. Well over 400 non-ferrous targets were recovered with the F75. And ALL of these targets were verified 'undetectable' to the concentric CZ.

I have performed this test..... in many different fields/locations...... with similar resultants. The largest differential ascertained...would be the fields with high-iron trash concentrate.

Tom

The V3 coil design is different in so much as the V3 coil is 'round' vs. the F75's elliptical.
Both are DD's.