How to find old sites to hunt

Roger -- much appreciated; do let me know if you run across anything; I'd appreciate it!

Daniel -- I LOVED your story! That's terrific!

And yes, I hear you on the camp sites. In my mind, though, I would think there are lots of campsites out there, which were utilized multiple times -- both on the cattle trails by the cattle drivers, and around the military forts where I'd assume "patrols" would go out and scout the area routinely -- likely camping overnight. Since water can be such a scarce commodity on the Great Plains, I'd think that there are spots that drew people routinely. The other thing I didn't mention is, many folks passed through this country on the way to California for the Gold Rush...and again, likely camped near known water sources...finding this stuff, though, is a different story.

I, too, have wondered if just wandering around on old ranches and stuff, is what it will take to stumble onto some of these spots...

Steve

Heres some info to add to what already written...

One thing I have found over the years is the houses that you find on the 1880's maps and locate are for the most part the second house to be on the property...

Heres where it gets interesting..Say you have a house producing 1880-1920 stuff, But you want older...

Well yes you can grab an older map if theres one available for your area....But I say this with great assurance...For every house site on a Early say 1850-1860 map that's only about 30-40% of what's really out there..most of the old houses were just not marked...

But all is not lost...if you find the 1880 house theres a very good chance that its the newer descendants house....

The 1880s house is the Kids house ...Dads house was also on the property from a generation before or at least theres a good chance of it...Thing's back then were different...you kept the land in the family and worked it as a whole family ....as the kids got older an married if you had a son or sons He would build a House around the property somewhere..Usually on a better site than the original...You could have your house on a site of your choosing instead of where the terrain choose it for you...

1880 houses are easy to find because they are easy to spot...even still having at times the remnants of shrubs and chimneys well holes etc...

1850 houses are not that easy to locate yet they are there...most of the time they are close to water but not a flood water creek but a stream or even spring head...they will set in a spot level usually and right beside an old long forgot road that may or may not be visiable....alot of times the roads was to just go to the house so it was not well traveled so its slight depression and at times un-noticable...And a chimney on early cabins was made out of wood and mud alot fo times so No rock's might be present or they were salvaged for the newer house chimney later .. and moved to another part of the property..No well holes .. thats why your close to the water....No oak tree marker either alot of times like the later houses needed..These houses set on creeks and such and was alway's shady and cool spots to begin with...

Also the older house sites will not have the abundance of iron in them, like the 1880 houses...Oh they will have iron but its of the smaller variety...like nails kettle and axe and hoe and such... but not the relentless large iron like the more modern type 1880 full swing industrial period houses are full of...

And that one thing that makes them hard to locate theres not a debris trail like on the newer houses...its tight compact and the people who where there were true pioneer homesteaders.. maybe setting up a cabin there in the late 1830's and expanding on it till the 1860's or so before their kids build a newer bigger house and they take in the parent's in their golden years to live with them...

Now if its a Civil War area it stood a chance of being burnt down here in the south...So thery are true time capsules that just stopped in 1864 say....


So I tell you this to let you Know that theres more out there thatn you may at first notice....and each area is a little different so you ned to hone your skill for your area..

learn the signs for your area like where the oldest houses set...remember WATER....Then you can develop a 6th sense to locate the Oldest of site's. thats not marked...Those are the ones others may not of touched yet...maybe ?

I know down on the coastal areas I have to switch my game plan even for the colonial houses of the 1700's...you cant see a road down there in the sandy dirt but they still neeed water and usually the houses set up on a rise for drainage since everywhere is basically flat...

And theres also alot of open fields used for growing crop's.... And I have found that if you ride the roads next to the fields with the sun to your back you can locate the glass sparkling out in the fields like diamond's...mark them then get permission to go on them...usually pretty easy ....and if you see black thick glass showing and pipe stems around you have an excellent site to hunt if your the first one there...But caution alot of the sites along the coastal areas are hunted hard for years....But you cant blame them wiht the finds that come out fo them...SOme of my best relics have come off the coastal areas...

I love the early sites down that way on the coast to hunt...Pre Rev war up to civil war..

Keith

Thanks everyone. Down here in the delta,we walk the farm fields,especially the ridges looking for the broken glass. Lots of times you will run across colorful pieces of glass and pottery,but if you want old look for a site that has thick pieces of black glass.
This past Sunday, while I was taking my new etrac coil on its maiden voyage hunting an old town site, I found a 1877 Seated dime with lots of that black glass,pieces of red brick and pieces of pottery laying on top of the ground. Even found a clay marble.
There is a huge drain/ditch,not modern because Ive seen it drawn on an old map; and,it has a lot of old brick and iron along the sides of it. Very grown up with trees shrub. Wanting to get in there with a rake and shovel to see what I can find. I was told that the brick and trash was there because that was where they pushed the old jail and office back in the 50s. But who knows what was thrown in there before that.
Never enough time it seems.
HH,
John

Some very good information in this thread!!! Ray

Steve,you and any of you guys in Oklahoma. While it may not have been as old,I may be wrong but I think you have a chance at some unique places.
Oklahoma was settled by land rush/claims,opening up of Indian Territory. I recall reading about some of them. Thousands and thousands of people would camp for days waiting for the land rush to begin. And it wasnt just one, there were several big land rush. If you could find some of those old camp spots. Also, shanty,tent towns sprung up with lots of drinking and gambling (called those guys the sporting crowds). Some became towns/cites. One other thing I recall reading about (Oklahoma), the US govt. would give railroads very much land/rewards for going thru that country before whites were there. Those railroads would always have shanty towns set up at the end of the line. If you could find some of those spots,Im sure lots of those drunks dropped a few coins,lol.
HH,
John

John --

You are exactly right, regarding all you wrote about Oklahoma history. There are SO MANY camp-type sites here -- military, cowboy/cattle drivers, settlers/land runners, etc. NO DOUBT about that. So far, though, finding them has proved difficult. I have a good friend here, who lives in northeast Oklahoma; a few years back he found a military camp site in that part of the state, and he has since dug (and still finds) some great relics there. One of his hunting partners just dug a Reale there this weekend, and he dug a Minie and a round ball.

I have access, through a friend who knows the property owner, to a site that had military activity, and we continue to hunt this spot and it produces great relics. I was invited to hunt one other military site by a friend awhile back, that was a large camp for a couple of years in the 1850s time frame, but it's been hunted pretty hard so the finds are fewer. Aside from that, finding these "camps" would almost just have to happen "by chance," since records of "location" were never kept, as far as I can tell. Reading the historical papers I can find, people who lived here early on often REFER to certain things, sometimes "by name" (i.e. "we would cross the river at old Smith's crossing"), but those names have long since fallen from memory, and any attempts to "cross reference" them have proven futile thus far.

You mentioned the land runs. I do know that the town of Purcell, about 20 minutes from my house, was a "staging area" in 1889, as it was one of the "starting points" for the first land run into central Oklahoma (Purcell, was a part of the Chickasaw Nation at the time, and the "unassigned lands" into which the 1889 land rush was to occur were just to the north of Purcell -- just on the other side of the South Canadian River which was the boundary between the Chickasaw nation and the "unassigned lands"). HOWEVER, Purcell is a sizeable town to this day, much larger obviously than it was then, with much development having occurred in the past 125 years; finding areas where folks "gathered" in 1889, and yet has that not been bulldozed, paved over, and built over, has been something that as of yet I've been unable to accomplish.

Anyway, l'll keep digging; one thing I will say is, I'm learning a TON about pioneer life on the Plains -- the customs of the settlers and also of the Indian tribes...

Steve

Oh I have another one to add to the thread.

This is more of a time saving tip. If you are ever out and about talking to old timers, especially about Civil War relics...pay close attention to what they say. If they tell you something like "when I was a kid we use to pick those minie balls up by the bucket fulls in the fields by our house", just dismiss it and continue your search else where. When I was first getting into relic hunting, those stories would make me slobber wanting to go detect. In all my sites I have hunted...and the many times I have heard that same story told to me....I have never...not once...found a single bullet in those fields where they said they use to pick them up by the bucket fulls. This is no lie. As I grew wiser to this story, I began to ask more questions about "what did you ever do with all of them" and they ALWAYS never know what ever became of them, nor do they even have a single one they could show you. Of course not. Because my belief now is...they never found them like they said. Unless they picked up every single one of them, which I doubt is possible.

Now there are variations to the story so be careful. It's usually just the excess amount that tips you off to the story tellers and which places to shy away from because it probably never had a soldier step foot on it during the entire war. Hahah. Every now and then you will run across one that says something like "Yeah when I was a little boy I found a bayonet up on that hill by the creek there"....sometimes they actually still have the stuff and are telling the truth. But the bucket full of bullet story...never has produced a single bullet for me in any of the locations.

Steve, I feel your pain,lol. Here,local history goes way back into the 1700s. Land was granted by the Spainish govenor of Louisiana to a Frenchman that commanded Spainsh troops in the fight against the English. A fort was built on the river here,I and everyone knows where it was and a few older buildings that came later. And from that area and spreading out from the epi-center,all is concreted,paved and built over. Built over numerous times. I have permission to hunt one vacant lot and another with a house still on it,but never have found anything. I was told by the home owner who also owns the vacant lot,that dirt has been brought in on several occasions. Very low areas. The house is fairly old itself as it was built on piers, about 4 foot off the ground. I always watch,read, wait, hoping for a tear down somewhere.
Daniel,Ive experienced what you have stated. I love to talk with the old timers. Had several to tell me of finding coins just layin on top of the ground in a field when they use to chop cotton. I would go there, and the first things I did notice,was no hints of old habitation, no glass,pottery. But, I would have to detect a bit, hoping to find at least nails. So far nothing has turned up on those places.
I remember when I first started looking for a metal detector to get into this hobby. I went to a local hobby store that carried a line of detectors to talk with a guy there,wanting to learn,hoping he would maybe actually carry me out and experience how a couple of the machines worked. Rude,very rude is what he was and said where in the world do you expect to hunt. The only place around here was a public place and you want find nothing there. I said ok, thanks and left. That public place,has old history. Ive since found Indian,Barbers, Mercs and very many wheaties at this place,lol. But not with anything I purchased from him.
You guys keep this goin.
It has really rejuvenated me.
Just a shame we arent closer, I would love to hunt with some of you. Not your spots, dont mean that. Just would enjoy the friendship.
HH,
John

Yes old timers can be invaluable..

I remember once I was looking for a Cavalry camp that was a couple of county's below me...

There was not a lot of action in this area to begin with military wise..but I had a diary that mentioned a run in at a bethel crossroads...well I scoured the maps and could not locate a bethel anything..I knew the general area but still things did not line up...There was this one spot on a country road that had a old feel to it and I pinpointed a mill so i thought I was close but no relics to show...

well there was a cemetery on this road and right past it was an old country store now closed down..and this was 15 years ago...but I found the owner of the store Lived behind it..well he was 97 years old and sharp as a tack..come to find out his Grandaddy was in the war and he had some great stories..anyway I told him I was looking for be the crossroads..He sat there for a minute and said well that old cemetery right up there was once called bethel cemetery but now it says harmony grove..

I then say to him well I'm looking for the crossroads..He thinks again and says you know there's an intersection of 2 old roads in the woods behind that cemetery. ..turns out it was his property...I go bac k there turn on my machine and sure enough first thing I hit is a pile I found dropped whole complete Spencer carbine bullets...I had a lot of fun in that spot for quite awile..


keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2014 06:01PM by Keith Southern.

To hit on a little bit of what Keith said about more then one house,, I have run into that many a times while out door knocking. You my be hunting the late 1800's house and the landowner will come out and tell you where the original house stood. This seems to be pretty common. Sometimes it may be staring right at you. For an example our farm still has the original cabin(1850's)It was turned into a tool shed/shop and a newer house built just about 200 feet from it(1887) It has the old barn siding on it so you don't notice the logs. Most farms have multiple buildings so look closely at them. Now if it is an owner who doesn't know the history of his place you may never now unless you walk his property. I look for old stone piles. Here in farm country they don't like stone in the fields so on the edges you may find a huge pile of foundation stone that gives you some clues that their was something there,and like others have said glass shows up pretty good in the fields and to just really study the lay of the land.
Corey

Yeah, this is a GREAT thread, and people just keep adding AMAZING stuff to it!

John -- you'd be welcome to hunt with me anytime!

Keep it rolling, guys!

Steve

I agree Steve. I cant bring much to the table, but heres something I do for research material. There are many small ,older towns in the motherlode region of NoCal. If I see a bookstore in one,I stop and take a look in the local history section...especially if they are used books. Found a couple gems that way.I also met our local historian at a crab feed last year. Guy is cool,and we have kept in touch. Ray

Ray -- that's a super idea.

Once when I was back home in PA, and at the court house researching some old properties, one of the folks helping me mentioned a now-deceased guy who was the local historian, and had published many papers on area history. I managed to make a mental note of the guy's name, and then when I went home I did a Google search on his name. I found countless papers that he wrote, and they have been the absolute biggest, best resource in terms of how it relates to detecting, for that area, that I have ever found.

Steve

A series of books you might want to check into are the "postcard history" series of books. They aren't for everywhere but the county I live in happened to be one of them featured. Shown here:

[www.amazon.com]

What these books are, are just a compilation of post card pictures from different parts of the county/cities in the county. It shows old country stores, and has captions for all of them telling where they were and what year they are from. Some of them are even comparison pics...showing what the view down one street looked like in say, 1920 and then what the view from the same location was like in the 1960s. Pictures are a thousand words....and a book full of pictures of your "hunt zones" is a treasure chest.

The neighboring county also has one of these type books and it had pictures in it from community lakes/ponds where people use to go swim and picnic from the early 1900s up to the 1950s. I have lived here my whole life and never knew of such a thing existing. The reason? They are all long gone now and have been since the 1960 time frame. One whole place was filled in and the other is a golf course now.

Heres something for you Silver coin hunters to maybe use...

[www.historicaerials.com]

And to complement the aerial photo site, here's an e-book (large, 68Mb) on interpreting them from an archaeological perspective:
[archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de]

Great links here, guys! Great stuff...

Steve

I've been lurking here for a while, and finally registered recently. I can't contain myself. This whole site is an incredible trove of knowledge, and this thread is phenomenal. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. It is greatly appreciated, and quite inspirational. I'm on the trail now!
Rich

Rich --

Welcome!

There are all different types of detecting forums out there, and some good ones, too. IMO, though, if you want honest, open thoughts and opinions -- and a much more "technical" approach to the hobby, there is no better place out there, than NASA-Tom's forum. I'm glad you enjoyed things in your time "lurking" enough, to choose to join us!

Steve

One other spot I have had good luck in for coins is the trail to the Outhouse hole...

Now dont laugh...

But if you find a old house site look for the outhouse..It will be out the back and about 25 yrds away.. you'll see it as a depression in the ground ..(sunk in spot about 2 square foot or so)..there may be multiple in a row ones on the country sites...anyway draw a mental line from the house to the outhouse and search that area..You will be surprised of the coins you can find ...Most county folk in the 1890 to 1940's wore overall's and if your in a bad hurry you start unlatching before you get to the outhouse..and the bibb pocket is the first to flip down ...lot fo old timers kept the money in the bib pocket....

when you gotta go you gotta go LOL!!!

so not trying to be amusing or anything else but if you see an outhouse depression draw a line and scan the area for coin's....

Also one other thing if its a city site house still there, pre plumbing era when built the outhouse will usually be back of the lot in the coner usually just one depression...draw line scan the line...

Why did city lot's have just one..well they were deeper and dipped out periodically.. the country sites were shallower and moved when the becoem cess pool's..the dirt from the new one was thrown into the old one ...usually jsut 3 - 4 foot deep did it..

Yes you can dig the out house holes out in the county pretty safely since they arenet deep like the city holes..they occasionally hold a coin or two or other intersting item's and usually nice bottle's...You'll know when your in one by the abundance of tomato seed's and fertile dirt..

Keith

Keith --

Great advice! I hit an old country church site in PA a couple of years back, and one of the places I hit was the line from the outhouse to the front door...found two IH pennies (of the four or so total that I dug at that site) along that path...

Steve

Correct me if i am wrong here, but i thought i read once where most outhouses were to the northeast side of the house. This was because in the summer the wind usually blows from the southwest and having them to the northeast cut down on the smell.

Rememebr the 2 ring hole I found the other day..

well I saw the lead to it about 5 yeas ago....but stuck it on the back burner...

Heres the Lead


I saw the remains of an old road...followed it in and there was the house...

Now here lies one of the things i was talking about earlier...the house I cant find on a map...I cant find that road on a map..

Now do you want to know the real kicker to what's going through my mind?

Why has someone hunted the house so hard...I could tell in 10 minutes time someone did a number on this house...and its also on the edge of a large Confederate camp..

The house seems 1880s but that does not meanits on top of an older site...I almost dismissed it till I hit it wiht the GMP 5 coil and turned up the parasol top...and it is of the1860 variety...

So now I READ the site by whats NOT there instead of whats there..I can throw a rock on a rare reb buckle from this spot so its deliberately hunted hard...

But what im mainly trying to say if you know the area and know the other finds to come out of the area then find a spot such as this that's POUNDED hard..it can speak volumes to you...A red light should go on in your mind..

Alwasy be analytical with the thought process when it comes to looking for site's..

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 02:35AM by Keith Southern.