Gold Ring Distribution Chart

Some years ago, Fisher published a chart that showed ring distribution across the range of conductivity.
I'm fairly sure it was in the world Treasure News.
Has anyone seen anything like it and maybe can provide a link?

Every now and then I see a copy of this distribution on one of the forums, however will do some searching as can't remember when or how I saw it. I do know foil produced about 1/3 of the rings.
May even be in one of the manuals for a model of a CZ...

Thanks Dan. It's greatly appreciated.
It may also have been in one of the early Fisher Intelligence issues.

Here ya go...I took a pic from Andy S's CZ book

therover61 Wrote:
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> Here ya go...I took a pic from Andy S's CZ book
>
> [i1013.photobucket.com]
> 61/013_zps893b6109.jpg


Perfect! Thanks.

Thanks John for posting the meter chart, With all my gold jewelry tested against the CZ-3D the foil range had the highest percentage. Didn't realize pull tab was second (30%) based from the chart, Mine was lower but these are school, tot lot and fresh water finds so maybe the ratio changes depending on location gold jewelry is found.

With my 3D, Play the odds and only dig foil range my percentage of gold jewelry is much higher in foil range and pull tab is much lower than the chart. Still, Good information for those after gold jewelry and goes to show we got to dig those foil range targets

Thanks again,
Paul (Ca)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2014 04:01PM by Old California.

That "meter scale" has me puzzled, too. Surely a 5c coin reads lower than both types of tab, and stay-tabs read lower than old removeable tabs? I feel a quick airtest is needed.....

On the subject of tabs, we still have removeable tabs here in the U.K, I often see fresh drops in the street. There are three types: 1980's-style ones which apparently are from imported Chinese beer ( TsingTao, I think, though I've only seen it in bottles myself ), real old-style long ones from a milk-based drink called "Nurishment", and recently, a noticeable amount of smaller ones from some energy-drink, one of the multitude of Red Bull competitors, in the smaller diameter cans ( I have one, picked up last week, for scientific test purposes...).,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2014 11:58PM by Pimento.

Pimento Wrote:
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> That "meter scale" has me puzzled, too. Surely a
> 5c coin reads lower than both types of tab, and
> stay-tabs read lower than old removeable tabs? I
> feel a quick airtest is needed.....


.05 coins read higher than any tab or foil - they have a certain % of copper in them

thicker "stay tabs" read higher too because they are thicker than the old pull tabs



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2014 09:23PM by MichiganRelicHunter.

I've just done a quick airtest, to check my memory hasn't let me down, plus I found some previous test results. Done on an F75:
5c "nickel" coin = 30 (tested 3 examples, none are dug-ups)
Non-removeable stay-tab = 32 - 36 ( could only find 3 of them)
Removeable tab (complete, ring& beaver-tail)= 34 -38 (tested 7 different types)

So I guess that means our tabs are different to yours? They certainly appear the same. It's not really that important to us here in the U.K, as we do little park detecting (mostly banned since the 1970's), and we also have 9 different cupro-nickel "nickel" coins (from the past 60 or so years) that all ID in the pulltab/nickel area, so there's plenty of targets come up in this region.

Pimento

are you using "U.S." nickels or euro nickels?

Ours have 25% nickel, and 75% copper in them - they read higher on the scale than pulltabs

and yes - our pulltabs (ring/tail) type read lower than the square modern type (the modern ones are thicker) which is one reason I would guess that they read higher --- the old style are thin so they read lower and I believe they may be a mixture of metals too whereas the newer ones are 100% aluminum

You're right Pimento,

Noticed that too with my 3D, the conductivity scale is not in order.

Have been meaning to ask the reasoning for this, Just never got around to it.

Maybe someone will chime in, must be a good reason for it.

Paul

Yes, 5c US "nickels". I have three of them, all modern 1990's
I have to admit I'd always assumed there was a ID range over which tabs covered, and factor in seperate beaver-tails, seperate rings, etc, and the ID of "Tab" to me was a very loose description. So it rather surprised me when I joined this forum, to see you US detectorists trying to split things so finely "I don't dig 29 but 30 is usually a nickel" sort of talk.
Our cupro-nickel coins are a similar alloy to yours, though curiously we have two alloy mixes, our current 20 pence is different to the rest, giving the odd effect that it reads slightly higher up the scale than the 10 pence coin, which is quite a bit bigger and heavier.

Must be something to do with the CZ3d??

I'll do a test on the Deus and see where the #s land on it later on with all 3 targets

heading out to the lakefront again to do some more ring fishin - won't be home til 2 or 3 am at least :-)

HH all

Thanks Pimento for sharing some of the conductive readings you're getting, For the longest time the 3D ID meter had me baffled.

With our other metered analog detectors including todays top end digital models, Foil follows iron, Some tabs fall before nickel then the square tabs fall at nickel but most square tabs follow nickel.

So the scale above is not in conductively order, Very confusing

Paul (Ca)

Keep in mind this chart provided by therover is for a conventional CZ....imagine nickles would be higher on a CZ3D as this facet goes lower to catch the old nickles . Thus the foil would be lower and the nickel higher I would think......

Bear in mind that the CZ meter is not a conductivity scale, due to the fact that the nickel is placed in the high tone area. The CZ nickel window ( ie, conductivity range) is very small, and it's designed to hit as a high tone, hence the nickel being put in the high tone category.

That being said, a nickel can be lower in conductivity then some tabs....but for the most part still hit as a high tone, while the tab would still hit as a mid tone. It's the small range of targets in the nickel conductivity range ( like some rings ) that would hit as a high tone.

Bottom line for gold ring hunting with a CZ is, if pressed for time and want to concentrate on trying to find gold rings, dig only mid-tones. If my math is correct, based on the statistics from the chart, over 80% of gold rings tested hit as a mid tone.

Thanks for pointing out the reason 5c coins are "high", I'd forgotten about this special feature that some of these CZ machine had. And I imagine that the percentage of rings falling in the "nickel window" will be small, as it's a fairly narrow window? But without knowing how wide/narrow the ID categories are on this "CZ dial", you can't interpret it easily.

The CZ-3D in salt mode is great for Euro coin hunting.
Our largest, the 2€ coin hits just above our old pulltab with beavertail. On most machines you dig an awfull lot of these tabs, just to get a few 2€ coins.

Salt and disc 3 is great for some coin shooting with the CZ, picks out the 2€ and the rest is left behind for another day.
Great for fresh strawberries from the vending machine!!

HH
Johnb

scoopjohnb Wrote:
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> Great for fresh strawberries from the vending
> machine!!

OK...where the heck do I find a vending machine that disperses fresh strawberries here in NJ ?!?!

therover61 Wrote:
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> scoopjohnb Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Great for fresh strawberries from the vending
> > machine!!
>
> OK...where the heck do I find a vending machine
> that disperses fresh strawberries here in NJ ?!?!

Hop in your car, drive to the airport, get a ticket for Belgium, hire a car, drive to Oostkamp, wright next to the Fribona store there's a starwberry farmer, just in the gate a 24/7 refridgerated strawberrie vending machine. You can even google streetview it :-)

Accepts 2€ coins, which the CZ-3D detects without fail!!

Continuing with this tongue in cheek line of thought,...
You simply have to aknowledge the genious of Thomas Dankowski for fine tuning the CZ for 2€ coins well in advance of the coinage ever becoming available!!

Pure Genious.

HH
Johnb

Good ole fashion clean humor.......refreshing.

therover61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bear in mind that the CZ meter is not a
> conductivity scale, due to the fact that the
> nickel is placed in the high tone area. The CZ
> nickel window ( ie, conductivity range) is very
> small, and it's designed to hit as a high tone,
> hence the nickel being put in the high tone
> category.
>
> That being said, a nickel can be lower in
> conductivity then some tabs....but for the most
> part still hit as a high tone, while the tab would
> still hit as a mid tone. It's the small range of
> targets in the nickel conductivity range ( like
> some rings ) that would hit as a high tone.
>
> Bottom line for gold ring hunting with a CZ is, if
> pressed for time and want to concentrate on trying
> to find gold rings, dig only mid-tones. If my
> math is correct, based on the statistics from the
> chart, over 80% of gold rings tested hit as a mid
> tone.

Yep - and thats the point.

It would be more interesting to see a "chart that showed ring distribution across the range of conductivity" for a modern 88 display machine, like an F75 / GBPro etc. This CZ-based one is just too manipulated, all you can really say is "most gold rings are above iron and below zinc 1c coins", which I suppose we all assumed anyway. There was a thread on here about gold rings from beaches, [I'll try and find it] and over 70% were womens' rings. I assume these would read 'lower-down', but how well this figure translates to dry land, I don't know.

Pimento,

I don't think the CZ chart is manipulated per se...it just does not have a lot of categories to fit a ring (or any other target for that matter) into, which can be a good thing. Simplicity was one of the key features on a CZ, the meter being one of them.

If you look at the chart, almost 70% fall in the foil or square tab range, which is a very high percentage for only 2 categories, so cherry picking only those 2 meter readings could be a way to hunt for rings.

It would be an interesting experiment to try on a newer ID unit like the F75.

I do know in reading from past posts and articles, that a lot of the smaller women's rings ( like engagement type rings with diamonds), fell into the foil range meter reading on a CZ. One of the reasons why the 4 tone CZ units like the CZ70 or CZ3D, having a separate foil tone, can be an advantage over the older 3 tone units.

For those of you that have the "Real World Beach Hunting" DVD...... watch it again........ as all of this data is explained in there..... and in detail.

Nearly all gold jewelry produced ID's in the 'foil' range. MOST gold jewelry produced are NOT for men!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those of you that have the "Real World Beach
> Hunting" DVD...... watch it again........ as all
> of this data is explained in there..... and in
> detail.
>
> Nearly all gold jewelry produced ID's in the
> 'foil' range. MOST gold jewelry produced are NOT
> for men!


97% of gold jewelry is made for women,and ID as foil.
You did a great job on the Beach vid Tom.
Corey

Quote:"I don't think the CZ chart is manipulated per se..."
Well I disagree, simply based on the fact that a chunk has been 'snipped' out of the low-conductor area and shifted in to the high-conductor area.

I personally am unable to work out where this snipped-out section actually belongs. In the middle of the foil section? At the right-most end of the foil section? The fact that your US tabs may or may not be different to our U.K doesn't help matters. And then there's the vague-ness surrounding the transition from "staytab" to "Zinc cent". There's a pretty large gap between them (based on my F75 experience). Does the "staytab" window extend all the way up to just below "zinc cent", or is it split half-way?
I would have put the true sequence (based on "conductivity" ) as [iron] [foil] [5c nickel coin] [staytab] [removeable tab] [zinc cent....etc]. But that seems at odds with the opinion of most, but not all, of you.`



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2014 10:46PM by Pimento.

Pimento,

Bottom line is the CZ is a different animal, and can't fine tune at the ID level. What it does do very well is stick to an ID category, and it does not have jumpy numbers to interpret. That can have it's good points and bad points. When it was designed way back in the stone age, they wanted the US nickel to hit as a coin, not as a tab, ID and tone wise. The CZ was a designated coin unit first and foremost, so it made it easy to just dig high tones and get nickels.

I see where you are coming from, in that the UK tabs are different, and you need a way to fine tune. Especially in a trashy area. The F75 and other units where the discrimination level is truly based on conductivity, is more viable for what type of hunting you d0

I guess the US-centric nature of the CZ machines is one reason they are not that common over here. Plus they were very expensive when new. Even the name doesn't work - the catchy "See-Zee-Three" becomes a "See-Zedd Three" here.

A few years ago I did test a few gold rings on my F75 (and the F2) just to get a feel for where they came on the scale. They were mostly mens rings, but I got enough ladies ones to see that anything in the 20 - 55 range (F75 scale) could be a gold ring. This encompasses all the tabs / tab parts, all the 9 CuNi coins, foil, canslaw, all manner of other garbage, etc. So I came to the conclusion that finding gold inland was not likely. And beach trips are a rare thing.

Many of these are finds with my CZ20...CZ7A-Pro and CZ3D...... the chart was made by request for X-Terra users to show what conductivity numbers would be applicable on those detectors when using all metal mode, as many user would disc. out tabs and anything below Nickle at(12).

Items at "30" is high tone on a CZ20

[nqminersden.com]

ivanll