Troy X-3 vs. X-5 ?

I was wondering if you Troy guys know the difference between the X-3 and X-5 other then manual ground balance? I had a X-5 for a while it was a hot detector,But seemed to be hard to ground balance? Maybe something was wrong with it I don't know. Maybe the X-3 would be more user friendly as my ground is mild anyways. Are they close in depth? Thanks.

Harold...

I would not give up manual ground bal for factory set ...

When you had the X5 or if you still do you can choose to use the factory pre set via faceplate switch...it would be like a X-3 using that setting...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

No Keith I don't have it anymore,But even in pre set G.B it seemed to false a lot on iron? I don't remember the serial number maybe it was one of the earlier ones? I would like to try an X-3 though to see if it was the X-5 or I was just not used to it? I guess from what they say the X-3 was made after the X-5 and not as many made? Probally harded to find an X-3 ?

Not many made..

if your X5 falses in preset the X3 would too probably...a 5x10 DD takes care of some of those falses..

The Shadows in my opinion require a Manual ground bal... I set the balance up in disc till I can get it quite from mineral noise....doing a dead on in all metal does not work well when switching to disc on that unit...whne in disc it will seem to be too negative...another half to 3/4 C.W. turn takes the mineral noise out of disc..But the pinpoint will suffer if you need to use it..which you dont really...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
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> But even in pre set G.B it seemed to false a lot on iron? I don't
> remember the serial number maybe it was one of the
> earlier ones?

Harold,
If it was one of the early ones, do you remember if it had a little square white sticker with a black capital letter 'H' in the battery box?
That signified the (only) factory mod that updated the iron discrimination method. Perhaps yours didn't have it done.

Additionally, the X5 already HAS a fixed GB mode like the X3 has, if you don't want to GB or have trouble doing so. Upper left 3 position toggle switch for GB mode, center position.
But I'm with Keith on this one...the shadows require a manual GB.

As far as the iron disc goes, most of the time the X5 won't completely knock out the iron sound. It just makes it raspy and broken/uneven. And it will be different with different swing/sweep speeds and approach angles.
It was a little tricky at first, but I hardly ever dig iron now...unless the ground is soaked...then it doesn't matter which detector I use.

HH,
mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 12:43AM by Mike in CO.

I dug a lot of nails with my X-5. Fortunately, all of them had good targets beneath them. I didn't find the X-5 to false too much on iron. It took me 1 day to tell the difference between iron and non ferrous targets.

That being said, many of the X5s out there are worn out. Capacitors dry out, resistors change value, so the detector doesn't work as it should. Troy repairs them, but parts are getting scarce.

Detectorist Wrote:
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> That being said, many of the X5s out there are
> worn out.

According to Troy, an awful lot of them aren't worn out so much as they've been 'jacked' with.
Someone once published an inaccurate 'how-to' on the web, and everyone started opening up the control boxes with screwdriver in hand and a mad gleam in their eyes.
(Then they ended up getting sold on ebay.)


mike

My X-5 is falsing like hell. I tried it few times and gave up on it. Maybe the previous owner did some "changes" to it... :/

I don't think mine had the sticker if I can remember correctly? Maybe someone jacked with mine also. That's one think I'm not shy about is admitting when it comes to electronics I leave it to the expert's as I know nothing when it comes to that stuff. I said it in a previous post and I think some took it wrong,But I was telling the truth about it and leave it to experts.

Harold,
Although Troy is officially out of the detecting business, he has a guy in Arizona (I believe) that can repair/recalibrate.
Of course he charges for it, but I don't think the prices are too bad.

good luck,
mike

x2000 Wrote:
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> My X-5 is falsing like hell. I tried it few times
> and gave up on it. Maybe the previous owner did
> some "changes" to it... :/

Could be. Also, the X-5 is VERY sensitive to EMI/RFI/EMF i.e. electrical noise.
If you're testing it indoors, it will probably go berserk. (Mine does.)

But if you're talking about it falsing while you hunt, then....

good luck,
mike

The X3 isn't even close to the 5 in depth. My wife's old classic IDX would EASILY best the X3 in raw depth, and that was with the X3 tuned (ground-balanced) to MY soil. There is a coarse and fine balance pot in the x3, and you can GB it using the PP. (IF you know where the correct pots are)
Even if you set the X5 in fixed Gb, the 5 has a hotter front end.

A lot of guys seemed to have problems with the X5 at first, just like a lot of guys hated the F75s early on. That's one of the reasons for the early corrective measures on the first 499 machines. I actually liked the original un-modded machines, and still have one. (seems to be hotter). I also have an early modded one. ( "H" in the batt box) We have two X3's too, but haven't used them in a long time. Worked great for competition hunting and tot lots, but not so good for relic hunting. There were actually quite a few running changes to the X5's over their production, such as going from an adjustable threshold in Disc to a fixed threshold in disc. Too many guys ignored the threshold control knob (which was easily bumped) resulting in either diminished performance or noisy operation in disc if it wasn't set correctly, so they changed them to fixed in disc. Built very very well, and killer in the right hands. An excellent beep/dig machine.
I can honestly say that the X5 was/is one of my favorite VLF's in hot soil, hands down. The X3 was kinda worthless IMHO if you needed a good Relic hunter..............


Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was wondering if you Troy guys know the
> difference between the X-3 and X-5 other then
> manual ground balance? I had a X-5 for a while it
> was a hot detector,But seemed to be hard to ground
> balance? Maybe something was wrong with it I don't
> know. Maybe the X-3 would be more user friendly as
> my ground is mild anyways. Are they close in
> depth? Thanks.

Mike in CO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Harold,
> Although Troy is officially out of the detecting
> business, he has a guy in Arizona (I believe) that
> can repair/recalibrate.
> Of course he charges for it, but I don't think the
> prices are too bad.
>
> good luck,
> mike

Thanks that is good to know if I get another one.

Thanks Mike! EMI is as usual, I can't complain about it. Iron is my only problem... It doesn't matter how I set it up, I get a good signal (or at least a short one) on almost every piece of iron. I have to stop every time and sweep the coil several times over an object that turns out to be iron (of any size).
I think it could be a coin near iron, or something else, but it's iron... I get the exact same sound on small coins and other good targets.
I paid a lot for this used detector and was really disappointed with the result. It was a very frustrating experience.

If I would have to hunt with it, I would probably quit detecting or turn off the discrimination (and then quit detecting after finding only iron and trash in my area, while spending hours investigating one tiny spot). "I hope" something is not right, because I can not believe that this machine could be (at some point) preferred for competition hunting...

X2000,...you have certainly a faulty X5!!!!
I have a X5 (version 1.2/ jan.2003) ; number:1006; so one of the beginning years .
I bought it in a shop in the Netherlands 12 years ago. I was looking for a top model and tried several machines from different brands but nothing that could convince me!!
The dealer said:"Here I have a little, lightweight machine that is new on the market!!!". We did some air tests and iron separating tests. What the hell was that thing DEEP and stable!!!!!
I took it immediately and from that day till now I never regret that purchase. The best detector I ever had. In addition to it I use the polish Rutus Jupiter which is better and faster for unmasking!!
But I always take the x5 with me on EVERY search. These two detectors are really completing each other on my prospections of roman and Celtic sites!!
Although it is 19khz the X5 loves those deep silver denarii!!! And for depth I have to see the first other brand detector that can beat it on my test garden!! A 22mm copper coin at 27cm (11 inch) and that with the 7 inch concentric coil which is the deepest of all troy-coils.
I hoped a long time for a new (x7?) model to be made but unfortunately Mr. Galloway has to throw the gloves and stop;...I sure believe it would be a cracker from what he once told me what new features would be added for the new model!!
For me it is simple, I'll keep my shadow for ever, it gave me such exceptional finds all over the years;..thanks TROY!!!!!

troyshadow, thank you for the answer. I expected the same experience after reading many positive things about Troy detectors. My X5 has a low 700 SN and the threshold knob. If I knew for sure that it doesn't work as supposed, maybe I could "try" to adjust something inside by myself (if it's possible & if someone would tell me where to look)...

Everyone has its own perception. What I describe as "terrible" may be acceptable or even great for someone else. I believe, the best way would be to upload some footage from one of my hunts. I will try to find it. Maybe you, or someone else who has experience with the X5 could take a look at the behavior. I really wanted to like this beautiful machine, but it was not possible (until now). Metal detecting is more than just finding stuff and digging holes. I will not go deeper into it, but every aspect should be fluent...

If I'll find it, I will upload a longer clip from a hunt. Until now I can only show this short video (which is not representative!). It was the first time I turned it on in the field and played a little bit with my first iron target. In this case it's obvious that it's iron, but in my other hunts it was a little bit different.

[www.youtube.com]

Call Troy. he can have you test it to make sure it's working right.

Oh, regarding the X3, the ones I had were just shy of X5 performance. Within an inch I would say. Great relic hunter.

x2000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> troyshadow, thank you for the answer. I expected
> the same experience after reading many positive
> things about Troy detectors. My X5 has a low 700
> SN and the threshold knob. If I knew for sure that
> it doesn't work as supposed, maybe I could "try"
> to adjust something inside by myself (if it's
> possible & if someone would tell me where to
> look)...
>
> Everyone has its own perception. What I describe
> as "terrible" may be acceptable or even great for
> someone else. I believe, the best way would be to
> upload some footage from one of my hunts. I will
> try to find it. Maybe you, or someone else who has
> experience with the X5 could take a look at the
> behavior. I really wanted to like this beautiful
> machine, but it was not possible (until now).
> Metal detecting is more than just finding stuff
> and digging holes. I will not go deeper into it,
> but every aspect should be fluent...
>
> If I'll find it, I will upload a longer clip from
> a hunt. Until now I can only show this short video
> (which is not representative!). It was the first
> time I turned it on in the field and played a
> little bit with my first iron target. In this case
> it's obvious that it's iron, but in my other hunts
> it was a little bit different.
>
> [www.youtube.com]

X2000, I watched the video.
The good news: it looks to me like the detector is working properly/beautifully.
Also, don't open it up to adjust anything...ever...all the adjustments are interconnected, so even tweaking one potentiometer ruins the calibration for the entire unit. You'll also ruin the weather seal gasket. Just DON'T.

The bad news: You're adjusting the detector wrong...that threshold control is ONLY adjusted in All-Metal mode. Don't touch it after you switch to discriminate. Otherwise it will do exactly what you are seeing...get unstable and false.
All the other controls you were setting correctly. Threshold should be checked occasionally, but ONLY in the All-Metal mode. (See Page 18 of the manual.)

Troy removed that control in the later units because too many people weren't using it properly.

The other thing I saw, was that you were hunting in wet ground. Wet ground lights up the iron halo, and you will always dig some false iron signals...with ANY detector. Some worse than others.
That sharp, broken signal you got early in the video is the correct sound for iron being discriminated on this machine. If you advance the discriminate much further than that, you'll lose depth and unmasking ability.

The Troy X-5 is a 'love it' or 'hate it' detector. Most of us who do 'love it' have years of experience with many different brands of detector, so we don't mind it's 'sharp personality'. It's more 'raw' than most.
It's tweaked that way to get the most out of the tech. It's got the personality of a twitchy race horse when cranked up.
But if that doesn't match your personality, or THing style, you may want to consider a different detector.

So, to summarize: The detector looks like its a good one. I'm jealous.
But in all honesty, it looks to me like you may want to switch to a different brand.

Detectors models/brands work the way they work...not the way we think they should. They all have different 'personalities', just like people.
It the two of you don't get along, there are plenty of other brands and models to try.

Good luck and HH
mike

PS - If you feel like selling, just list it here...there are plenty of guys who would love to snatch up another X5 in that nice of shape.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2015 07:02PM by Mike in CO.

Completely agree with you Mike!!!
If I was you “x2000” , I should keep that detector that’s for sure! Read and reread the manual, go out in the field and built up experience. Begin for example with half of the sensitivity, dig up all what you encounter and see and hear what the machine is telling you. Once you get it mastered it will pay dividends!! And no IRON is not "your" problem but the problem of every detectorist!! That makes detecting so special. If it was so easy than all places where saturated with searchers!! The machine is good, like Mike said, but it is now the skill of the user that must be developed!! You have a F1 machine, now you must only become a good pilot!!! I am sure you can!!!
Good luck,….and do me a favour,… keep it!!!!!!!

@Mike in CO,
I have not even shown you any footage of my hunts, where the problems occur, but you are already convinced, that I'm the problem... I showed you a video from last year in which I'm turning this machine on for the first time (outside). I wrote that this short clip is not representative and the (obvious) iron target can be identified as such in this example. I guess I will leave it at that. Thanks for the answer & HH.

x2000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Mike in CO,
> I have not even shown you any footage of my hunts,
> where the problems occur, but you are already
> convinced, that I'm the problem... I showed you a
> video from last year in which I'm turning this
> machine on for the first time (outside). I wrote
> that this short clip is not representative and the
> (obvious) iron target can be identified as such in
> this example. I guess I will leave it at that.
> Thanks for the answer & HH.

x2000,
Sorry if I offended you. That was certainly not my intention.

I did not say you were the problem. I said you were adjusting it wrong. That's still true. That doesn't make you a problem.

In the video clip you provided, you cranked the threshold control all the way up after switching to discriminate.
That's wrong. Anything else after that is going to be adversly affected.

But I will be more than happy to watch your other videos, to see your issue in greater detail...especially if you feel the one you provided wasn't representative.

And once again, I apologize for hurting your feelings.

Lot's of people don't 'sync' with their detector choice. the XP Deus is a perfect example of another 'love it' or 'hate it' detector.
The folk who hate it aren't 'the problem'...they simply don't mesh well with that particular unit.

mike