What next

One of our very active members repeatedly takes manufacturers to task for the slow pace of innovation - we all, of course are impatient for progress.

What in fact can we reasonably expect?

Here are some thoughts I have had while drinking my morning coffee and digesting someone's latest complaint about a leading metal detector company.

Performance -

target separation - faster processors and innovations in audio or visual feedback plus continuing coil refinements should make some modest gains possible.

Discrimination - no new technology seems to be on the horizon here except perhaps further,development of multi frequency machines. Both FT and
Deus have acknowledged that they are working on this.

Depth in mineralized ground - PI detectors rule here but have no real discrimination at depth - Many have tried to crack this but so far no one has done it.

Usability and ergonomics-

Deus leads here on many levels. Featherweight but robust hardware, amazing power budget - everything operates at about 3 volts - user software updates available and they are free and completely reversible - long transferrable warranty - everybody else lags. One note here, good mechanical engineering is needed to make stuff out of non metallic materials. For example, the CTX forums are full of woes about shaft problems, case leaks, etc. likewise the Garret ATZ shafts are problematic. Even the new $10k GPZ seems to have shaft issues.

User interface -

Keith will tell us of the virtues of Rich audio and various visual aids like the Deus horseshoe and the Whites Signagraph have been developed, but I get the feeling that visual displays have no big potential for innovation probably the CTX is currently leading the pack.

What about REAL change

For anything really different it takes about five years from concept to product - and even then there are very often glitches not revealed until prototypes are in the hands of user/testers and then these have to go back through a design, implement, test loop. That's one reason why metal detectors often experience launch delays. Tight budgets, small engineering teams and limited field testing of pre production hardware all make it tough to stick to a schedule.

So what are Garrett, Minelab, Whites, First Texas busy testing engineering prototypes of? We don't know.

Minelab just published their report to investors - they are the only publically traded company in the bunch- so the only ones who have to report. There was no mention of anything new in it, so you can rule out anything big for probably 2 years at least. Here's the link if you are interested

[hotcopper.com.au]

Garret is silent

Whites have an interesting new patent on a dual mode detector, but no one knows if it exists as a prototype and if it does, whether it will work well enough to become a product.

First Texas has acknowledged that they are working on further multi frequency machines and a new type of detector that they have great,hope for. A PI is under study as well apparently. Will any of this be for sale next year? Nobody who knows is going to tell us.

XP have a new multifreq machine on the way soon - or so a pretty popular rumor goes.

The Turks have said that,they are interested in multifreq.

Tesoro is sleeping

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Unfotunately think about it, other hobbies, Fishing, hunting, bowling, golfing to name a few have many more participants thus much more profits from a much larger group of hobbyists. Thus less bucks for metal detector manufacturers to experiment innovate etc. Heck I know of 20 year old units that will do just as well in an experienced detectorists hands. In other words they change colors, rename components, lighten the load but all in all don't expect any major improvements. I really feel we just don't take the time to learn a unit that's why the detector classifieds are so busy..
I speak from experience as in the last 25 years must have owned and used approx. 100 units....

Good cup of coffee you have there Rick...LOL!!

I still think think SONICALLY speaking that great inroads can be made with more dimensional audio...

Funny you mention the DEUS horseshoe...I myself dont watch it..and its linked to the disc setting for iron ..set the disc Too low and iron will be on the right side ...But also its linked to the audio in a way that its sampling from the audio report instead of the audio report and Visual beng seperate...And thats unique...

I would like to see something in a visual audio feedback display...

Maybe a high intensity green screen that wrinkles and pulses in colors in sampled from the audio .

Its too early for an MRI type prtable device yet( maybe one day).. but we could still get some dimension visually from the audio I feel..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Well, nobody has chimed in to,point out all the likely flaws in my information and speculation, so I will.

I just saw on Findmall where Andy Sabich has posted something about the new Deus.

"Not to start a heated debate but the new coil is not a multi-frequency coil . . . . . and the size is 6"x9" so not really intended to be a sniper coil but rather a general purpose coil that will address some issues in searching salt water beaches and alkalai sites.

The V4.0 software will compliment the new coil but will work with existing coils (although some options will be grayed out when using the older coils)."

That's one I got wrong!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I usually sound like the negative guy when new product info is released. And here I go again. XP has clearly missed the mark on what we were wanting in this update and new coil. Hail to the Racer. The king of iron polluted sites.

I am with you on this one goodmore – I hung onto a Deus - now that I know what's coming it's for sale – cheap

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I tried a racer in a iron infested site for about 5 min and gave it back to my buddy. Now i know why everyone that has a racer swings with it a foot off the ground. Constantly goes into overload near larger pieces of iron. My friend does really well with his tho. I just can't stand that overloading all the time. Ill stick with my deus and my coil on the ground lol. Deus shines in iron and high mineralized infested sites. Almost as good as my cheap Tesoro

Dan has most of the solution.....WE need to get better and use the tools to the fullest. Even the old tools are an amazing achievement.

Kevin

I hope the 6x9 DD is better than the 6x9 DD on the GMP..

I was dissapointed with that coil...No depth...anemic comes to mind...

Maybe they have SOUPED it up..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

According to the report above it is a coil made for searching salt water beaches and alkaline sites. That is the way it was reported at finds. The update will also gray out the older coils. So they will see no benefit. I think you will see a bunch of Deus units in the classifieds. Now would be the perfect time for Nokta/Makro to release the Impact. Especially with Christmas coming.

goodmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the report above it is a coil made
> for searching salt water beaches and alkaline
> sites. That is the way it was reported at finds.
> The update will also gray out the older coils. So
> they will see no benefit. I think you will see a
> bunch of Deus units in the classifieds. Now would
> be the perfect time for Nokta/Makro to release the
> Impact. Especially with Christmas coming.


I'll bet Low Boy is disappointed.---He's really been looking forward to this release for quite awhile.

True there are more people doing golf and other hobbies you mentioned....... but most of those arent tecky. Look how fast TVs, cell phones and such are changing. The electronics seems to be there........ whats missing is a light bulb to come on in someones head to do something DIFFERENT. Our ideas and willingness to finance them are our only limits.

Dew

Metal Detecting in the US is a dying hobby IMO. We've discussed this before but the fact remains....that more and more sites are being closed to detectors every day. This includes both private property and public property like parks and beaches. Eventually, the places to hunt are going to be few and far between til possibly, there are no more places. There will still be plenty of stuff left to find...just no way to get to it legally. I will give a good example of something that has happened locally in just the last few years. The county I live in has several elementary schools, two high schools, and one college. All of them are off limits to detecting now, OR any other activity for that manner. The schools all have brand new high chain link fences around the properties and the gates to them are locked at all times when school is out. These school playgrounds use to be a popular place for the parents to take kids while school was out...now they can't do that. Nor can I go hunt the ball fields, playgrounds, etc during the summer months like I use to. There's no way to get in. There is one park in town, and it is not posted in the rules that you can't detect there. But I know a couple of folks that have been ran off by the parks and rec people for detecting. The area I live in is surrounded by freshwater lakes and swimming holes on the rivers in the mountains. Well...the rivers in the mountains are on US National Forest property...no metal detecting allowed. And all the lakes are owned/regulated by TVA, and this means all the designated beaches are TVA property. TVA doesn't allow metal detecting anymore. We used to be able to get a metal detecting permit from TVA to be able to hunt the beaches and campgrounds...but they did away with it a few years ago. And now you'll get in big trouble for doing so. Add in to the fact that most in this hobby are older people that can be "standoffish" towards other people, and overall...a lot are bubbling over with jealousy and greed...and you have the perfect storm for a dying hobby. When people say stuff like "the less people in the hobby...the better off we are"....that's a NG situation for growth and keeping something alive.

Other hobbies on the other hand...encourage new people to get involved. BUT...they also have designated places that they can do their hobby. Golfers have golf courses....fisherman have the lakes, streams, and ponds....nature people have plenty of national parks to walk trails on, photographers can take pictures most anywhere.....well you get the picture. I think it is the manufacturers and engineers outside of the US that are in control and driving this thing now. If there is any advancement via US products, it will be to tap into market of the UK machines IMO. I think that is where the money is at for them right now.

The biggest thing in US detecting in terms of number of people involved has always been coinshooting. The closure of public sites hits that kind of casual use hard.

Another problem is that our coins aren't worth squat. Inflation and the lack of $1 and$5 coins has seen to that. I won't bend over to pick up a penny, even in public. I will bend over for a nickel or a dime BUT ONLY IN PUBLIC (I'd be embarrassed to be seen leaving it, like I'm too good to pick it up). Fact is, it's not worth the trouble.

In Europe, they have high value coins worth several dollars, we don't.

Funny thing though, in Norway and Denmark where Imhave detected, nobody coinshoots - they are out to discover history - as far as coins, only old ones interest them.

To make a long story short, this is why few recent top of the line detectors are focused on ID of US. Coins - that market is increasingly irrelevant at the top end.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Rick most of your post is spot on, however I and many don't do it for the money but for the thrill of the hunt, exercise and enjoying nature...
Years ago spent some time in Canada and after a while needed suspenders to hold up my pants with their Loonies and twonies....here in good old U.S.A. could make more flipping burgers at Mickey D's....

Dan, fair comment. I didn't mean to accuse coin shooters of grubby mercenary motives, just that most of us could barely make battery and gas money out of the cash we find!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfotunately think about it, other hobbies,
> Fishing, hunting, bowling, golfing to name a few
> have many more participants thus much more profits
> from a much larger group of hobbyists. Thus less
> bucks for metal detector manufacturers to
> experiment innovate etc. Heck I know of 20 year
> old units that will do just as well in an
> experienced detectorists hands. In other words
> they change colors, rename components, lighten the
> load but all in all don't expect any major
> improvements. I really feel we just don't take the
> time to learn a unit that's why the detector
> classifieds are so busy..
> I speak from experience as in the last 25 years
> must have owned and used approx. 100 units....


definitely an element of truth in what you say dan,and why
any "dealer" sellin' 'em better NOT give up their day job!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

The user selectable tone id is coming along nicely now.
The visual target display is making progress.

The next thing I want to see is "dial a freq". From 1 to 30 kHz would be nice. I'd even settle for adjustable frequency within a bracketed range if I had to, even if I had to have mutiple units to have the whole range.

I want to be able to dial in a operating frequency that would penetrate my dirt best. And / Or dial in a operating frequency that would help me with trash discrimimation. At this point in time I'm limited to fixed frequency units.

That would be the next great thing in my book. Would take some coil work. Would have to go to PCB coils to make it work but it could be done.

HH
Mike

You people are probley right to some extent about a dying hobby and places being put off limits to detecting...I live in the surrounding area of Albany, New York and am a UPS delivery person of 23 years...I know many people on a first name basis, mostly people who's property dates back to the late 1600's...

I have countless property to detect and my free time is very limited...A great deal of this property is virgin land as far as metal detecting goes, French & Indian War, Revolutionary War and many years of people living and dying and property being over grown by nature...

Private property will always be open to metal detecting no matter what ( UNCLE GOOD SHAFT ) tries to do...So if all these places are being put off limits, it's your duty to start knocking on doors, all they can say to you is.....No....




Albany is the oldest continuing settlement in the nation. The City of Albany still serves under its original charter, which dates back to July 22, 1686, and has been the capital of New York State since 1797.

Daniel...who told you that you cant detect National forest?? Is it said for your particular N.F.? I adk, because I found on the gov. website, you can detect for "vintage coins" , even in a historical site, unless posted otherwise.

Deathray -- The national forest website: [www.fs.usda.gov]

There are 8 beaches listed that we can detect but only the beach areas. You have to also check in at the ranger station before you ever go, and get a permit that is good for 3 months time. There is only 1 of those beaches within an hours drive of my house, and nobody ever really goes to it. There are a bunch of old C.C.C. logging camps up there I would like to dig, and homesites. But all are off limits.

That sucks bud. And its just plain wrong. They are OUR forest, supposed to be multi use. Good luck on finding sites.