A couple things about Whites...my experiences

I sent one of my IDXPros in to get checked up(pre-modding) and not only did it come back looking like new but they also tested the coil and determined it was not optimal. They sent back a brand new 950 coil AND my old 950 pancake coil which I love more than the newer ones. At any rate,if you paid retail the coil is 149.95. They charged me 50 bucks for it. For diagnostics,tune up,new feet for the control box,new coil and shipping it all back was like 135 bucks.
When I modded one of them I didn't get the holes in the control box quite right for the extra pots. I EFFED IT UP! I called Mary and said I need the control box upper and lower,basically two case halves. I waited awhile...nothing. I called again and she was super apologetic,it didn't get processed. She said it would be taken care of STAT. A week later I got this really BIG box. I thought it was WAY too big to just have a control box. Well,it didn't. They sent the COMPLETE S-rod with complete control box,display pod,pod wiring,switches,knobs,grip.....a complete IDX chassis minus the guts. I was blown away. I paid like 35 bucks for the whole thing shipped.
I've ordered a couple other things that showed up so fast that I didn't even understand how it was possible to get here in that amount of time. Now,these are honest experiences with just one company,others may be similar or differ greatly.
On the subject of newer and greater stuff....I think my Explorer is the best thing since toilet paper. I love using it,looking at it,cleaning it,buying stuff for it...did I mention using it? It's capable of finding many things and will find more,as soon as the nut behind the wheel gets more time on it. I've used it for a few hundred hours already and love it. But....
The IDX is...or it isn't. There aren't "computations" going on to come to a conclusion. It is pure at heart. I like that. It has never acted funny for no apparent reason or had to be reset or any of the other myriad of things that may cause my Explorer to be a little "off the wall". The design is genius,the weight is light and balance second to none(of mine). Performance is outstanding and the finds have been many. When Whites designed this machine it was a stroke of genius...not only is it somewhat simple but it's HIGHLY capable. We are our own worst enemy when it comes to "excessive techiness",whether it's metal detectors,cars,phones...everything. It seems we need a computer of some kind to even function. Well,we don't.
If Whites took the IDX out of the closet and developed a comprehensive line of 6.59 kHz DD coils that worked well with the ID system,along with adding in the critical "Mr Bills" mods on stock units,they would have a winner. Apparently there was an issue with materials in/on the board that they couldn't use anymore,I don't know if that's true or not. All I'm saying is,it would be a HIGHLY competitive hunter. Right now with the mods it is competitive,not HIGHLY competitive. It doesn't have tones or a backlight,but I'd give that up to see a great machine come back to life with a vengeance. I feel it really is a gem that got lost along the way.

A lot of the US companies need to step up and come out with new flagships that give us more options...They seem to have a lot of time to develop the next level for us but seem to be stuck. We have come a long way with masking but is there something new around the corner that will have most of us having to buy it.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

No doubt White's has the service/ repair side of the house down very well.

I see this up and coming detector-- different look, and that's good

Maybe they have been reading this forum

I'm no,expert when it comes to detectors-- but if they would have asked me, I'd give my advice/ opinion-- btw I have bought one V3i new.

It is definitely a more competitive market-- a few more manufacturers are on board here in the USA and it seems around the world.

So a manufacturer has to be even more careful when it comes to design, performance, costs.-- a newly designed/ released detector must indeed sell, and have fulfill a purpose for many.

With the different currencies of foreign countries and the strength of the US dollar varying, this too can make being able to compete more difficult

Capital requirements for R&D are another factor, and heavily depends on prior made unit's sales

I think it is safe to say the BIG picture of the metal detector manufacturer industry is now where the auto manufacturer industry was say approximately 20 years ago.

And it will take some real wizardry and great marketing strategy skills for any USA detector manufacturer to stay on top and be competitive.

I wish all the US manufacturers the best of luck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2016 08:14PM by tnsharpshooter.

Indeed Whites service after the sale is top notch but be sure to deal with Sweet Home Oregon for the best results...Over the years outstanding service for sure....
Indeed the Explorer series even the original XS excels for deep silver....however other companies excel in different aspects of the hobby....

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Indeed Whites service after the sale is top notch
> but be sure to deal with Sweet Home Oregon for the
> best results...Over the years outstanding service
> for sure....
> Indeed the Explorer series even the original XS
> excels for deep silver....however other companies
> excel in different aspects of the hobby....

CONGRATS ON 3,000 POSTS DAN!! I'm honored it was on this thread...and to add,I agree. Whether it be in the field,service,etc. there is a "whole picture".

Great people that take care of you. Don't think they get the credit they deserve for the QUALITY of their products either. Seems when they release a product, you can buy with confidence that there won't be bugs and material/workmanship issues alot of other companies have. I've got a certain Turkish detector that after a few months use is about to fall apart after the thin, cheap plastic that wraps around the rod above battery compartment has cracked and broken. After a coil ear did the same. And on top of that the grip foam is starting to come apart. Recently I picked up a 20 year old XLT that had a fairly hard life. I know the owner kept it in his truck bed on the way to relic hunt the woods. Few scratches on the box but overall still solid as a rock. The handle is an example of the quality of materials. Its dirty but the same shape as when it left oregon 2 decades ago. Whatever they use on their grips lasts and lasts. This is mainly for my son to use, the "cleanliness" of its disc modes and VDI spread are perfect to keep him digging coins and interested.

Got to visit the factory on business this year. Not what I expected with the T11 siding and barn looking buildings, but very cool none the less. Oregon is beautiful and full of nice people. Long live Whites.

I will say also...when I initially got the IDX,I hadn't detected before. I kept reading about how you could discern all these things from just a monotone. Well,you can guess what I thought about THAT! After ALOT of time "they" of course we're right,as "they" have been right about most things. The IDX is built great as many know,and looking at it now it is the reason that I'm so into this hobby. You can all look at that first machine and do the same. I'm glad I get to look at a Whites,and of course,it will remain with me forever.

Good thought process..

IDX is a great unit..

And from my experience They go out of there way to make it right or help out even selling parts...most manufacturers wont sell parts like Whites Does..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

You have to offer great customer service or after you sell enough detectors and offer bad service your sales are going to go down hill. I was a whites dealer and when I started to use fishers whites had a fit. I wanted to carry both whites and fisher but they wouldn't let that happen. One time in golden gate park me and a friend took the DFX and MXT and one of the top of the line fishers. We checked each target with each unit before digging. I was taught how to use all of the whites machines and we matched coil size with all detectors..but the fisher was deeper and that was where the old coins were. I would love to see whites make a come back so I'll cross my fingers

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I want all detector manufacturers to go for gusto.

But timing can be everything sometimes.

And brand loyalty is very important.

Someone on here stated the White's V3i-- was no flagship detector

It was sure sold with a flagship price though

Maybe lessons were learned, I don't know.

Time will tell.

And the clock is ticking.

Time is money, no doubt

So I encourage all makers to get the lead out.

Did we even hear about this new Detector via the manufacturer???

If not, that's a problem right there.

Agreed with all David,lots of thought put into your replies,all interesting points and well founded IMO. No matter how technically good any machine is the huge wildcard is always going to be the operator,it's been said a million times. I would think a "simpler" machine would take the human factor down a few notches. Again,one of the beautiful things about an IDX type unit...imagine all the 6.59khz machines those DD coils would work with too! The demand for the "mods" we're/are incredible,for good reason. If they would produce it again I CANT see it being anything but a huge success....but as with anything at a point in time,the right people have to be in place to make the initial decision,and quite honestly,I don't know of many people who want to take the responsibility of any big initial decisions. The selling point would be past performance and sales numbers of the Classics in general. SOMEBODY LIKED THEM! And still do of course.

For quality of build and service, Whites is top notch. I always liked the feel of a Whites machine. They feel solid like a tank. I used to have an IDX Pro and a QXT pro (very underrated) and still wish I had the QXT. I liked the mixed mode (all metal and dics). It didn't have VDI numbers but did have 8 zones and you could assign either a high or low tone to each one. It was probably one of their deepest machines out there at that time,

HH
John

IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed with all David,lots of thought put into
> your replies,all interesting points and well
> founded IMO. No matter how technically good any
> machine is the huge wildcard is always going to be
> the operator,it's been said a million times. I
> would think a "simpler" machine would take the
> human factor down a few notches. Again,one of the
> beautiful things about an IDX type unit...imagine
> all the 6.59khz machines those DD coils would work
> with too! The demand for the "mods" we're/are
> incredible,for good reason. If they would produce
> it again I CANT see it being anything but a huge
> success....but as with anything at a point in
> time,the right people have to be in place to make
> the initial decision,and quite honestly,I don't
> know of many people who want to take the
> responsibility of any big initial decisions. The
> selling point would be past performance and sales
> numbers of the Classics in general. SOMEBODY LIKED
> THEM! And still do of course.

IDX,

I have always been a competitive minded person of sorts.

There are some rules to live by when it comes to the business of manufacturing IMO

First never depend on someone else's failures for you to get ahead.

Determine what you already do well-- that stands out

Determine what others are doing well that stands out

Determine what you do badly or not so good

Determine what you can possibly do that others don't do-- that may stand out

Take off your blinders--- and make an objective evaluation of your personnel to insure they have their blinder off as well

Hire the best personnel you can afford-- and overall experience not necessary a prerequisite

Consider going outside of the regular channels for personnel-- i . e . Could a person who has engineered a cell phone be a good person??

Modern forward thinking should be paramount-- 21 century style

Your own past customers--- a treasure chest of knowledge when it comes to overall feel and design of equipment, and as such develop a means to try and stay in contact with

Facilities need to be 21 century feeling and looking

Websites/ pages need to show a sense of style and reflection-- and be easy to follow and interpret

Have representatives that keep their finger on the pulse of the user public

Don't be shy on introducing future merchandise-- key here be factual and offer as much information as possible as current time allows

Never criticize a competitors piece of merchandise-- rather talk your own up with facts-- comparisons to some of your own past manufacturerd items is allowable

Be sure your product is ready upon release-- if delays are encountered that affect already advertised release dates-- be honest with the public and explain why--- be specific

Address negative trends hastily with real action-- no band-aids or kicking the can down the road.


The above if adhered to, can make a business very successful

David-Again,well said. I would have to think the vast majority of people who own a detector or are thinking of buying one are coin shooters. It goes without saying that as one "matures" in the hobby MOST people are going to want to find elusive/rare/older/potentially more valuable coins. Many places,especially public,have been searched and the top 8" of coins are gone/will be gone shortly. The ID system on the Whites Classics is VERY good,and many have said so. I have certainly found this to be true. Would it be even more precise at even greater depths with mid and larger sized DD coils that could separate better and not see so much mineral? The relatively short history of many other DDs in the field along with technical literature would seem to support this theory. The engineering part is for the most part on the Classics done already. To ignore was HAS worked well may indeed be a missed opportunity. I,along with countless others,hope it's not. And,I do believe your above list applies...

Interesting thread. I, too, wish White's would focus some effort on making evolutionary changes to some of the time=proven designs they already have. VLF tech has pretty much gone as far as it will go, so now they should circle back on some of their best designs and really tweak them to get the very best performance out of them. The three White's models that come to mind are the IDX, the XL Pro, and the MXT. With the new MX Sport, it looks like White's is starting to come back to some of their tried and true designs and improving them. Love to see that with the IDX and XL Pro, the two best 6.59 kHz machines they ever built and certainly worthy of further improvement. With the IDX, White's could give it some extra tones, even if it's just a two-tone break above/below the disc set point, and make Mr. Bill's mods built in from the factory. On the XL Pro, just give it manual ground balance like the 5900. And the best thing about the IDX and the XL Pro is that they are the perfect 2=detector arsenal, complimenting each other perfectly, the XL Pro for out in the open and the IDX for in the trash, and they share the same coils.

But yes, these older White's machines were at the pinnacle of VLF technology: tough, simple, and they just work really well. There's nothing they can't do in skilled hands that a new top end model can do.