Etrac vs Keith's Wooden Yardstick video. Part 1

I think Keith's videos have been responsible for resurrecting the sale and use of wooden Yardsticks! LOL Here is the old and slow etrac trying to hit a coin between nails. Can it do it? You'll have to watch......
[www.youtube.com]

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2016 08:28PM by khouse.

How can I set my CTX up to do the same thing as what the etrac is doing in the video?

Mccrorysjewelry2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How can I set my CTX up to do the same thing as
> what the etrac is doing in the video?
I don't have a clue.... I can't afford one of those! LOL

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Kenny,what is the range of IM on the etrac? In other words,how much disc is IM 32?

IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kenny,what is the range of IM on the etrac? In
> other words,how much disc is IM 32?
The discriminate range goes down to 35. In 2 tone Ferrous the iron is preset at 17. Clean coin hits will come in around the #12 line say 12/45. But put a nail by it and that same coin can read 22/45 or even 27/45. This throws the coins into the preset iron audio range in TTF. This is why you can miss a lot of good targets running TTF as seen in the vid. I have not used TTF for a long time. I run conductive mode all the time now with reasons the video shows as well.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Ok thanks!

Great video! I just tried this with my explorer se and it worked great! Gonna try it on my ctx now. Thanks

John

Mccrorysjewelry2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How can I set my CTX up to do the same thing as
> what the etrac is doing in the video?

Combined audio on the CTX.
What it pulls out of iron/trash with the 6" coil is amazing.

HH
Johnb

Right disc for right site. I'd never dig 29-45 in a non-iron site.

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right disc for right site. I'd never dig 29-45 in
> a non-iron site.
Very true. I still cherry pick sites before I sift through the trash. But a lot of our sites are nothing but iron - mostly nails so this is the way to get a lot of what's left. There is nothing like finding a clean site that has clean coin hits. But those are few and far between...

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

:
-------------------------------------------------------

Quote
detectingMO
Right disc for right site. I'd never dig 29-45 in a non-iron site.

You are correct about using the right settings, Discrimination and others, to match a site. I have concentrated on iron plagued sites since I started working nail and tin infested ghost towns in mid-1969, and I prefer to hunt such sites whenever I can. All too often I see people join the fun, but walk away skunked, ... no matter which make or model detector they use ... when they start to over-rely on the visual TID/Numeric read-out.

Quote
khouse
Very true. I still cherry pick sites before I sift through the trash. But a lot of our sites are nothing but iron - mostly nails so this is the way to get a lot of what's left. There is nothing like finding a clean site that has clean coin hits. But those are few and far between...

Kenny, 'Thank You' for posting this response and video. I appreciate it.

Yes, I know, I know ... some readers are going to wonder about reading 'Thanks' for anything Minelab related from Monte, but I don't dislike Minelab as such, they just don't work for me and the majority of the sites I hunt, and definitely are not a physical package that I enjoy using with my limited mobility. I have owned at least six -6- Explorer II's, an Explorer SE Pro, and have used other FBS models a bit to include the CTX-3030. No, I am not a devoted FBS fan or have a vast knowledge or all their functions. However, I do know what it takes to try and accomplish gaining the results I need afield.

There was no 6" coil available years ago when I had them, and that would have been interesting to use in the trashier sites I hunt. I have four friends who primarily use, or only use, one of the Minelab FBS models and I have tried to get them to learn them well, to include mastering the Discriminate setting. Some have relied on the Ferrous and not the Conductive and, wouldn't you know it, they have had the worst performance afield in nail infested sites.

I hunt a wide variety of sites and, like everyone should do, I select the makes and models of detectors and search coils that I feel work best for me. In the past 15 to 25 years they have been lighter weight and better balanced due to health reasons. A terrible condition back, neck to the tip of my tail, and an injured shoulder. Combine that with a bad left knee and blood clot from groin to ankle swelling my left leg, and with the pinched nerves and pain, the FBS models weight and balance (or lack there-of for this old phart) just don't work out.

I used to have one or more of the FBS/Explorer series (and that really includes the E-Trac and CTX-3030 in my mind) units in my arsenal for occasional use for very short periods of time, mainly for urban 'Silver Shooting' in old parks and schools, but changed up to a more versatile and comfortable battery of detectors that work for me in most of the places I like to search. That said, I still am pleased to see any assistance offered to help avid detectorists get the best performance from what they have. Thus, the 'Thank You' from me for helping others.

Now, if you'd like to put your E-Trac to work in some challenging older sites with more ferrous debris than most folks could ever imagine, why not bring it along and come join a bunch of adventurists (and everyone is welcome to participate in these free, open invitation gatherings) to out 3rd 'Welcome-to-Hunt Outing' this coming May 19th thru 22nd. Our 1st WTHO was last May with a turn-out of 17 folks, and our 2nd WTHO in September drew a group of 20 detector operators and a couple of family 'spectators.'

Our May WTHO will be in Nevada, and our 4th WTHO is still in the planning stage, to likely be held in September of this year. If you have a few sites over your direction you think would make a good group (we like 3 to 6) of places to hunt from a central gathering point, you're welcome to share that with me. If you'd like to come join some fun and demonstrate the abilities of a functionally set-up FBS detector to a group while in-the-field, here's a chance! Just e-mail me your WTHO Contact List information (I don't share it) and I'll send you notification in just a few days.

In the meantime, let's all keep helping others find better ways to use our chosen equipment and enjoy this great outdoor sport!

Monte
monte@ahrps.org

Monte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> :
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Right disc for right site. I'd never dig 29-45 in
> a non-iron site.You are correct about using the
> right settings, Discrimination and others, to
> match a site. I have concentrated on iron plagued
> sites since I started working nail and tin
> infested ghost towns in mid-1969, and I prefer to
> hunt such sites whenever I can. All too often I
> see people join the fun, but walk away skunked,
> ... no matter which make or model detector they
> use ... when they start to over-rely on the visual
> TID/Numeric read-out.
>
>
> Very true. I still cherry pick sites before I
> sift through the trash. But a lot of our sites
> are nothing but iron - mostly nails so this is the
> way to get a lot of what's left. There is nothing
> like finding a clean site that has clean coin
> hits. But those are few and far between...Kenny,
> 'Thank You' for posting this response and video.
> I appreciate it.
>
> Yes, I know, I know ... some readers are going to
> wonder about reading 'Thanks' for anything Minelab
> related from Monte, but I don't dislike Minelab as
> such, they just don't work for me and the majority
> of the sites I hunt, and definitely are not a
> physical package that I enjoy using with my
> limited mobility. I have owned at least six -6-
> Explorer II's, an Explorer SE Pro, and have used
> other FBS models a bit to include the CTX-3030.
> No, I am not a devoted FBS fan or have a vast
> knowledge or all their functions. However, I do
> know what it takes to try and accomplish gaining
> the results I need afield.
>
> There was no 6" coil available years ago when I
> had them, and that would have been interesting to
> use in the trashier sites I hunt. I have four
> friends who primarily use, or only use, one of the
> Minelab FBS models and I have tried to get them to
> learn them well, to include mastering the
> Discriminate setting. Some have relied on the
> Ferrous and not the Conductive and, wouldn't you
> know it, they have had the worst performance
> afield in nail infested sites.
>
> I hunt a wide variety of sites and, like everyone
> should do, I select the makes and models of
> detectors and search coils that I feel work best
> for me. In the past 15 to 25 years they have been
> lighter weight and better balanced due to health
> reasons. A terrible condition back, neck to the
> tip of my tail, and an injured shoulder. Combine
> that with a bad left knee and blood clot from
> groin to ankle swelling my left leg, and with the
> pinched nerves and pain, the FBS models weight and
> balance (or lack there-of for this old phart) just
> don't work out.
>
> I used to have one or more of the FBS/Explorer
> series (and that really includes the E-Trac and
> CTX-3030 in my mind) units in my arsenal for
> occasional use for very short periods of time,
> mainly for urban 'Silver Shooting' in old parks
> and schools, but changed up to a more versatile
> and comfortable battery of detectors that work for
> me in most of the places I like to search. That
> said, I still am pleased to see any assistance
> offered to help avid detectorists get the best
> performance from what they have. Thus, the 'Thank
> You' from me for helping others.
>
> Now, if you'd like to put your E-Trac to work in
> some challenging older sites with more ferrous
> debris than most folks could ever imagine, why not
> bring it along and come join a bunch of
> adventurists (and everyone is welcome to
> participate in these free, open invitation
> gatherings) to out 3rd 'Welcome-to-Hunt Outing'
> this coming May 19th thru 22nd. Our 1st WTHO was
> last May with a turn-out of 17 folks, and our 2nd
> WTHO in September drew a group of 20 detector
> operators and a couple of family 'spectators.'
>
> Our May WTHO will be in Nevada, and our 4th WTHO
> is still in the planning stage, to likely be held
> in September of this year. If you have a few
> sites over your direction you think would make a
> good group (we like 3 to 6) of places to hunt from
> a central gathering point, you're welcome to share
> that with me. If you'd like to come join some fun
> and demonstrate the abilities of a functionally
> set-up FBS detector to a group while in-the-field,
> here's a chance! Just e-mail me your WTHO Contact
> List information (I don't share it) and I'll send
> you notification in just a few days.
>
> In the meantime, let's all keep helping others
> find better ways to use our chosen equipment and
> enjoy this great outdoor sport!
>
> Monte
> monte@ahrps.org
Thanks so much for your wonderful reply! I enjoy all your posts. It was about 20 years ago I spoke to you on the phone about a Bandito. Don't ask me what we talked about!! LOL.
I have and still am a victim of running high disc patterns basically "cherry picking" sites. Some of my home sites stopped producing high conductors running high disc. I then went to hunting those sites in 2 tone ferrous. Still nothing but iron hits all over. I would walk away thinking all was gone.
This winter I was just messing with my machine in my basement thinking about all that was going on inside of it. I tested with all my trash and coins and thought I'll just simply disc out a nail and see what happens. This in itself was nothing new to any hunter. That's what I used to do with my Classics, Umax's and others - just turn the knob until you reject a nail and hunt. I really didn't have the need to run the etrac that way because I was still sniping coins with high disc. But now I needed a little more. I needed to move closer to a detectorist up from a hobby master. So I simply though "I'll just reject a nail and see what happens?" Nothing new here. No secret unveiled. Then as you saw in the video the etrac can hunt in the iron as well as most. No the TID isn't the classic numbers we want to see. But the other brands average down the TID's as well. Now all you have to do is use your ears. I'm even more lucky because I do have a 6 inch coil that should unmask even better.
I would love to meet up with you and others but with 2 kids in College and all the other stuff going on I just can't take off from work. I started my family later in life and now I'm basically paying for it. (Yes, I love my kids! LOL) Instead of winding down I seem to be winding up. I do see some breathing room in 5 years. At that point I would love to sell everything and buy an RV and just travel and detect.
I will keep in mind your gracious invitation to your group hunts. It would be an honor to join and learn from you. Sadly I don't think I can make it.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Great video! I love the Etrac and the CTX and still own both, however, FBS machines react much differently to iron in the ground and false quite often. Not to be a wet blanket, but, with that same scenario in the ground, the iron halos would drown out any decent signal on a FBS.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great video! I love the Etrac and the CTX and
> still own both, however, FBS machines react much
> differently to iron in the ground and false quite
> often. Not to be a wet blanket, but, with that
> same scenario in the ground, the iron halos would
> drown out any decent signal on a FBS.
This is for those iron sites that have stopped producing with conventional discrimination. Will you dig more iron? Yes. Can you squeak out a few more goodies in doing so? Yes. Will it be worth your time? Who knows? I would suggest to at least start out with reduced sensitivity to help minimize the deeper rusty iron hits.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Great video and thanks for sharing. All those videos I made with the E-Trac, very very few had TTF. I did so much testing and just never thought it was what I had read about. I ran a minimal disc on the iron as well. I didn't realize the E-Trac was doing as good as you showed there, but the results didn't lie.

Best,
Albert

Thanks for the tip Kenny.
I set up a new program last night on my CTX after watching your video, and works
amazingly well at the house.
I'll take it out next week in the real world and see what happens.
Bryan

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great video and thanks for sharing. All those
> videos I made with the E-Trac, very very few had
> TTF. I did so much testing and just never thought
> it was what I had read about. I ran a minimal disc
> on the iron as well. I didn't realize the E-Trac
> was doing as good as you showed there, but the
> results didn't lie.
>
> Best,
> Albert
Thanks Albert! I really enjoy all your videos and learned a lot from them! I'm producing a follow up video showing some more testing. Should be up in an hour or so. It's really eye opening.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Nice video.

The E-Trac in 2TC or 4TC assigns a high tone bin to hits from 26-50Co (2TC) or 39-50Co (4TC), no matter the Fe value. Without Disc above (greater than ) 30Fe, the nails will also respond with a high tone when their Co value is greater than or equal to 26 (2TC) or 39 (4TC).

In 2TF or 4TF, the low tone is given for hits GTE 18Fe (2TF) and 31 (4TF), which means in 2TF those down average coins will respond as low tone (iron) and in 4TF they are mid-low tone (18-30Fe), neither of which is encouraging to dig.

If that is confusing, think about where audio bins in the diagrams below ... 2TC and 4TC will provide the correct high tones while 2TF and 4TF will be more like iron tones on down-averaged coins.


2TC and 4TC




2TF and 4TF



What I think is most brilliant that Kenny demonstrated, is that the FBS detectors are responding to the coin, but the audio is blended in with the iron nails. A coin with a ferrous reading of 29Fe is going to produce a low-iron audio, same as the nails in 2TF/4TF. While most of us kind of knew that, the brilliant part (IMO) is that the coin responded in 4TC or Multi-Conductive with nails present, the machine knew there was a coin there. That 29Fe component of the coin falls in the high-audio bin and the detector responded accordingly by alerting a high-tone.

In other words, the E-Trac (and CTX) are not nulling on the nails and missing the coin, it "sees" the coin, but respond rather literally to the programming of the mode that we put it in. If the iron nails were causing a null, in the proper sense, the coin would not be heard in any mode (TTF and TTC both). The machine is reading the coin as a coin of 29Fe-45Co, and reading the nail as 30Fe-45Co, but unless we instruct the machine to differentiate between the audio, it doesn't, and you get only iron audio. Tell it you want to hear the difference between 29Fe (high tone) and 30Fe (iron) and the 29Fe-45Co coin responds accordingly. Too bad the ML manual was so sparse on details.

The 2TC/4TC/MTC is then an excellent method for hunting med-high to high conductors in fields strewn with iron. Not so good if you are looking for low-conductive rings and jewelry, as they will all be low-tone (iron) audio on the E-Trac. With the CTX, you could assign your bins accordingly to the target's you are after.

Good video Kenny...

Thats why those FBS will find coins in iron....especially if you run multi tones...they blend well..


Mcrorys jewelry your CTX is superior to the etrac in terms of unmasking...this is where the CTX made the most advancements ...they worked on resolution ...and you want to see some great unmasking with you CTX? Put it in combined mode pull you ferrous line down to 32...turn on high trash if you like..this will be two tone like say a f75 in two tone but actually better resolution than the f75 ...

I have a YouTube video from way back on this..

[youtu.be]

Now here something to study that will get what others leave...use it at the right times and you be rewarded..

[youtu.be]

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2016 02:38AM by Keith Southern.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good video Kenny...
>
> Thats why those FBS will find coins in
> iron....especially if you run multi tones...they
> blend well..
>
>
> Mcroirys jewelry your CTX is superior to the etrac
> in terms of unmasking...this is where the CTX made
> the most advancements ...thery worried on
> resolution ...and you wasn't to see some great
> unmasking with you CTX. Put it in combined mode
> pull you ferrous line down to 32...turn on high
> trash if you like..this will be trweo tone like
> sasy a f75 in two tone but actually better
> resolution than the f75 ...
>
> I have a YouTube video from way back on this..
>
> [youtu.be]
>
> Now here something to study that will get what
> others leave...use it at the right times and you
> be rewarded..
>
> [youtu.be]
>
> Keith
Excellent videos as always Keith! FBS machines can do a lot.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Thanks for adding the "science" behind the results! It makes even more sense!
Johnnyanglo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice video.
>
> The E-Trac in 2TC or 4TC assigns a high tone bin
> to hits from 26-50Co (2TC) or 39-50Co (4TC), no
> matter the Fe value. Without Disc above (greater
> than ) 30Fe, the nails will also respond with a
> high tone when their Co value is greater than or
> equal to 26 (2TC) or 39 (4TC).
>
> In 2TF or 4TF, the low tone is given for hits GTE
> 18Fe (2TF) and 31 (4TF), which means in 2TF those
> down average coins will respond as low tone (iron)
> and in 4TF they are mid-low tone (18-30Fe),
> neither of which is encouraging to dig.
>
> If that is confusing, think about where audio bins
> in the diagrams below ... 2TC and 4TC will provide
> the correct high tones while 2TF and 4TF will be
> more like iron tones on down-averaged coins.
>
>
> 2TC and 4TC
> [i1155.photobucket.com]
> lo/E-Trac/Two-ToneConductSetup.jpg
> [i1155.photobucket.com]
> lo/E-Trac/Four-ToneConductSetup.jpg
>
>
> 2TF and 4TF
> [i1155.photobucket.com]
> lo/E-Trac/Two-ToneFerrousSetup.jpg
> [i1155.photobucket.com]
> lo/E-Trac/Four-ToneFerrousSetup.jpg
>
> What I think is most brilliant that Kenny
> demonstrated, is that the FBS detectors are
> responding to the coin, but the audio is blended
> in with the iron nails. A coin with a ferrous
> reading of 29Fe is going to produce a low-iron
> audio, same as the nails in 2TF/4TF. While most of
> us kind of knew that, the brilliant part (IMO) is
> that the coin responded in 4TC or Multi-Conductive
> with nails present, the machine knew there was a
> coin there. That 29Fe component of the coin falls
> in the high-audio bin and the detector responded
> accordingly by alerting a high-tone.
>
> In other words, the E-Trac (and CTX) are not
> nulling on the nails and missing the coin, it
> "sees" the coin, but respond rather literally to
> the programming of the mode that we put it in. If
> the iron nails were causing a null, in the proper
> sense, the coin would not be heard in any mode
> (TTF and TTC both). The machine is reading the
> coin as a coin of 29Fe-45Co, and reading the nail
> as 30Fe-45Co, but unless we instruct the machine
> to differentiate between the audio, it doesn't,
> and you get only iron audio. Tell it you want to
> hear the difference between 29Fe (high tone) and
> 30Fe (iron) and the 29Fe-45Co coin responds
> accordingly. Too bad the ML manual was so sparse
> on details.
>
> The 2TC/4TC/MTC is then an excellent method for
> hunting med-high to high conductors in fields
> strewn with iron. Not so good if you are looking
> for low-conductive rings and jewelry, as they will
> all be low-tone (iron) audio on the E-Trac. With
> the CTX, you could assign your bins accordingly to
> the target's you are after.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

I tried these settings and got good results, but... the SE high tones on the old iron nails if the disc is not quite set to null/blank them, or if it's a white screen.....no low tone.

When set to just blank them and a dime is put into the center as you have demonstrated, it gives a high tone.....pull the dime and nothing, as in your vid.

I don't believe the SE has tone options like the E-trac.....correct me if I'm wrong as it's been a while and I don't have many hrs on the unit to begin with.

Isn't a SE pro just an SE with a pro coil??

What's the best settings for the SE in carpets of nails?? Note:I like to have low tones on iron and high on silver...if possible.

I have no experience with the SE. Someone will surely answer your questions soon...
ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tried these settings and got good results,
> but... the SE high tones on the old iron nails if
> the disc is not quite set to null/blank them, or
> if it's a white screen.....no low tone.
>
> When set to just blank them and a dime is put into
> the center as you have demonstrated, it gives a
> high tone.....pull the dime and nothing, as in
> your vid.
>
> I don't believe the SE has tone options like the
> E-trac.....correct me if I'm wrong as it's been a
> while and I don't have many hrs on the unit to
> begin with.
>
> Isn't a SE pro just an SE with a pro coil??
>
> What's the best settings for the SE in carpets of
> nails?? Note:I like to have low tones on iron
> and high on silver...if possible.

I just wanted to add that the whole point of the Yardstick test was to keep consistency with Keith's tests. Similar to Monte's nail board test he sent to many people with different machines to collect data. I even tried to use the same size nail. Now anyone can do the Yardstick or nail board test with their own machines for comparisons. Sure I could have tried this or that? Buried coins and nails in the ground? But then someone would have said "But how does it compare to the Yardstick test?" or "Try Monte's nail board test" This test along with Monte's test can be posted for direct comparison for all to see. I expect my MXSports to come in today and it too will get the test. Of course I will make a video.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2016 02:22PM by khouse.

Every video I've seen with these minlabe machines I've never been impressed and thought they were slugs..... After watching your video my mind has been changed..... Good video indeed

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tried these settings and got good results,
> but... the SE high tones on the old iron nails if
> the disc is not quite set to null/blank them, or
> if it's a white screen.....no low tone.
>
> When set to just blank them and a dime is put into
> the center as you have demonstrated, it gives a
> high tone.....pull the dime and nothing, as in
> your vid.
>
> I don't believe the SE has tone options like the
> E-trac.....correct me if I'm wrong as it's been a
> while and I don't have many hrs on the unit to
> begin with.
>
> Isn't a SE pro just an SE with a pro coil??
>
> What's the best settings for the SE in carpets of
> nails?? Note:I like to have low tones on iron
> and high on silver...if possible.

Bump! I have questions guys....someone knows, don't be lazy. lol