Running a detector for peak unmasking/separation

Well this subject I feel doesn't get the discussion it deserves,,and I feel some folks especially those new to detecting could really benefit if some folks here would add their comments please.

It has come to my attention as of late,,while looking and using some of the more I'll call them more sophisticated Vlf metal detectors,,,, some features afforded them some folks might get the wrong idea and hence may shortchange themselves while in the field detecting.

Before I mention a few of these things,,,,here is something else I feel needs to be mentioned,,and this too may need some discussion as it ties into the overall big PIC when it comes to metal detecting--- that is the small coil.

I will go out on a limb here and ask the following.

Does having a small coil accelerate how to properly set up a new released/purchased detector??

And do the same settings usually carry over to using bigger coils like stock coils??

IMO the answer to the first question is YES,, and I think users of the Deus (I'm a big Deus fan btw),,realizing how to properly set it up more towards peak performance when it comes to unmasking/separation would have been accelerated moreso if a smaller coil than a 9" coil would have been available.

You see by testing a detector with a smaller coil,,,this squeezes all the variables into a tighter space ,,,, more like a magnifying glass,,where smaller settings changes,, their effects seen better.

But does what gets seen here using a small coil,,does it always carry over to bigger coils??
I often have witnessed EMI differences between the smaller and stock sized coils,,but this is not what I'm talking about,,,moreso ground handling and settings like disc, and if applicable settings like I mask and I-sat.

Something else too I feel folks get mislead when it comes to metal detectors,,they see a detector has iron volume adjustment.
Which leads me to the next question,,,is there really a Vlf detector out there,,,that provides peak performance ( iron separation/unmasking) and while such is a silent hunter (no tones ever being provided when ferrous is being detected)??

I believe there are many lurkers here on this forum,,some experienced,, some not so experienced.

And having some folks here share their experiences and provide input may really help some folks,,including myself.

I tell folks all the time,,no such thing as a dumb question,,only dumb answers sometimes

And if anyone has any of their own test they perform when trying to determine how to set a detector up for peak/near peak performance and they would like to share,,this would be a good place.

Just by running a Xp Deus, limited time on Makro Racer 2 and Nokta relic,,,I see things right now,,,still too premature to put into words.

And another surprising thing for me is,,,and I'm not placing blame here,,but why doesn't more detailed instructions get put into some of the operators manuals more geared for advanced use-- especially for separation and unmasking??
I mean the manufacturer itself does engineer and make and test the detectors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2016 09:43AM by tnsharpshooter.

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why doesn't more detailed instructions get put into some of the operators manuals more geared for advanced use-- especially for separation and unmasking??

People new to the hobby will have to go through a learning curve no matter what is printed. The forums are full of tips and tricks to get the most out of a detector. Nothing beats time in the field getting to know the detector. Just like anything else those who practice and gain experience will succeed and achieve more. I think a more important question has to deal with ergonomics. Why do detector companies continue to release heavy detectors or detectors on S shafts? And maybe a more important question is why do we as consumers continue to let them get away with it?

goodmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
> People new to the hobby will have to go through a
> learning curve no matter what is printed. The
> forums are full of tips and tricks to get the most
> out of a detector. Nothing beats time in the field
> getting to know the detector. Just like anything
> else those who practice and gain experience will
> succeed and achieve more. I think a more important
> question has to deal with ergonomics. Why do
> detector companies continue to release heavy
> detectors or detectors on S shafts? And maybe a
> more important question is why do we as consumers
> continue to let them get away with it?


Sounds like you are trying for a Minelab boycott.

And a S rod boycott as well.

Quote

And another surprising thing for me is,,,and I'm not placing blame here,,but why doesn't more detailed instructions get put into some of the operators manuals more geared for advanced use-- especially for separation and unmasking??

TS, I think they keep the op manuals as simple as possible with little sections of advanced understanding because of the differences in ground minerals and their affects on the unit. Settings that work well for one type of environment are poor in another environment. So the best we get is "this is the control and how it works" and then its up to us to figure it out for each site and desired target.

Iron audio is pretty useful on a detector with tone break and expanded FE range. I hunt little non-ferrous jewelry targets that fall down inside the iron range all the time and that muted non-ferrous tone always gets my attention. It is suprising what lies inside that soft FE/Non-FE boundary. But that leads to another point....the desired target also plays a role in how you set up.

Probably why the more complicated units require you to live with them for an extended period of time.

HH
Mike

Excellent post Mike...Was going to write a similar one when I initially read, however no use beating a dead horse to death....honestly feel units are tuned for the stock coil and when you change coils it may or may not change your unit.

TNS,
frankly, I read the instruction manual enough times to make sure I understand how to work the unit, know how to make or change any of the settings....then I google this forum for the people who obviously post very profitable specifics on those settings and conditions. This accelerates how I can learn what works and doesnt work for me. They could type 500 pages into a manual, but I would rather listen to about 30 of the folks on this board and contribute when I can. case in point...I don't even have a deus or nokta/makro unit, but involved technical discussions like you started about those or the detectors I have helps me when I am out in the field and wanting to try/test settings changes.

Rod - PA
Tom D calibrated F75 DST - so deep I pulled some Chinese coins using a hole in PA.

Answering in reverse. Detectors are made so companies can make money. A flimsy manual means that they, or someone, can make a book or a video on how to get max performance, and thus more money is made.

Stock coil optimization is no big secret. Machines are tuned using the stock coil, then different coils later on down the road.

"Does having a small coil accelerate how to properly set up a new released/purchased detector??"
In a way it does. A larger coil in a target rich area, can make things more confusing. Using a small coil, things tend to slow down, and your learn curve accelerates. You can experience this when you get a large coil. To me, when using a large coil, I feel lost, like I dont know the machine at all: Pin pointing is off, target locations are missed, target blending throwing off the TID.

"And do the same settings usually carry over to using bigger coils like stock coils??"
I say yes. Things like reactivity(Deus) on a large coil vs a small one, the setting is the same, the effect can be quite different.

Tom D put it best when he said(paraphrasing) a large coil see a larger volume a dirt vs a smaller coil, there fore the larger coil has a larger chance to mask vs a smaller one.

IMO, you may want to work a site large coil to small coil. There are so many different variables on so many different detector, and sites, that to come up with a fool proof un-masker, would be near impossible. So get what you can and work from there.