Unscientific Test

I will be sending my AT Pro back to Garrett as soon as I get the OK from them ....I was hoping to hear something from Keith about the "newer " machines as to whether they false or not .....Out testing today and comparing

1) E Trac
2) Excal
3) AT Pro
4) CZ-21

It was not a scentific test ....It was a test to set up each of these machines that we own , and set them up the way would normally set them up for a beach hunt ......Ground balancing , Noise balancing , etc .....Whatever was needed to start hunting comfortably ...... There was a gold womans wedding ring with diamonds in it ...... Each machine was tested and would register this ring in an air test , so we knew that each machine was capable of hitting it .....The ring was tied to a string, starting at 12 inches , and pulled up and inch at a time to see how well the machines would hit it in the wet salt sand ...... Just for giggles , how do you guys think this test turned out ? ......Give me the order you think these machines hit this ring from the best #1 , down to the worst #4 ......Thanks, Jim



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2011 12:02AM by synthnut.

2,4,1,3 is my guess.

Given the wet salt, and assuming that as you pulled the ring up it went pretty much vertical, I'd guess 1,3,4,2.

Since i was there and two of the machines were mine. Can i guess??? Jim i like this thread !!!

Where is the cash prize????????????
3-2-1-4



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2011 12:40AM by TerraDigger.

1-4-2-3

My guess would be 4-2-1-3

4-1-2-3....

1-2-4-3.

4-2-1-3

2 4 3 1 , when are we going to know the results, I might change my answer after

2 1 3 4

When do we get the answer.

J



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2011 02:59AM by jbow.

Jim must be in bed. The answer is 4,3,1,2. The CZ came out on top in spades. What we were after was a clear "yes i would dig that tone" at depth. The At surprising was able to hit the target but not give good tone or ID. Since ive been a long time ETrac user and know the machine well. I thought for sure it would hit "nope!". Excal ??? nada it just wasnt there no matter what you tried. Target was a thin women band on a measured 12" string. Pulling it up inch by inch "now on edge". At 6" the CZ and AT would hit it. CZ gave a one way Med tone. AT was all over but hitting it. Excal and ET nada. Reburied it flat down to 8". CZ solid both ways. At hitting it and diggable but no idea what it was.Excal and ETrac nada......I was also testing out a head cam and some other things. The video isnt all that great but it will get better.

I have to say i really expected more out of the Excal. I set it up ten ways to Sunday and it wouldn't hit what the CZ did. Isn't the Excal supposed to be deeper? The ET,i give it props. If i went into Manual sens of 25 from auto +3 it did better. This is with the 12x15 SEF coil. She hammers the parks though. If Jims AT didn't false so bad it would be one heck of a machine for the money.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2011 03:51AM by EZrider.

4-3-2-1

Darn, just missed it!

1,2,3,4.

If there's no prize, I'll settle for giggles.

And Jim, if the last number is 3, I'll be convinced you're a masochist...

[www.youtube.com]

Oops, took too long with my answer.

Sounds like the AT is only a coil issue away from being a top of the line machine at a middle-of-the-road price.

EZ, you alluded to maybe a video? If so, I look forward to seeing it.

Sorry I didn't get back to you guys earlier .....I have the pleasure of dealing with Diverticulitis , which put me to bed when I got home from this test and I went to sleep to minimize the pain ....I wanted to complete this test , but was having problems walking with the pain ....

What I saw here really surprised me ...... but then again no .......I have been saying all along that if the falsing could be remedied on the AT Pro that it woud be a serious contender ..... The problem is that if you sit the coil on the ground , it will false like crazy ....If you bump anything in your swing or scrub the coil , it will false which makes it hard for you to get close to the ground without the machine falsing ...... Since hearing that Keith is getting either a newer machine or a newer coil , I am anxiosly awating his results .....If they have fixed this problem , my machine will be in the mail and on it's way to Garrett as soon as I can get the OK from them ......



The AT Pro reacts very much like the CZ-21 with one exception ....The AT Pro will hit the target just like the CZ-21, BUT , it has the WRONG numerical ID, or NO ID ( no big deal ) .....The problem is that the audio is ALSO off .....It will bounce around , and when you are in a position where it will read an ID , it reads in the upper 80's and gives you a high tone which depending who you are it's questionalble if you would dig it going by tone ...... It DOES however give you a tone and let you know something is there , so if you dig EVERYTHING which is common at the beach , you would at least have a target after you dug and it would be an accurate pinpoint ....... Remember on the AT Pro , this ring came in at 53 !!.... At approx 6"-7" or so , it DID come in at a solid 53 when laying flat ...... The CZ however at 8" came in with a tone that was solid all the way around and was the correct beep for the Gold range ......We switched back and forth to let each other hear the machines and how they reacted ...The CZ and the AT Pro are very close in how they react to a target ...An inch between the two machines would have the AT Pro IDing correctly like the CZ21...... There was plenty of black sand around too !!......What totally FLOORED ME , was the fact that the Minelab machines could not really compete ..... The CZ and the AT Pro came in as clear winners here ..... The CZ was DEAD QUET when hunting until it hiit the target .....If my AT Pro would hunt the same way , I would have NO PROBLEM reccomending it ......You can ID coins in the dry and pick and choose if you want to dig Copper Pennies or Zinc Pennies .....The VID system is that good !!!......I let my partner run my machine for a while and all he kept saying was " I would send this machine back in a NY minute " .......After hearing how quietly his CZ runs in the same salty , black , sand , I could not agree more .......As I said , as soon as I hear from Keith that the newer machines do not false , I'm sending mine in ....... I will then brag on the AT Pro , as it will then be IMHO one of the best bang for the buck detectors out there !!!..... The dry area was covered with snow , but when I did have a chance a week ago to hunt it in the dry , it was a nice machine to use unless you scrubbed the coil or bumped another sand mound while sweeping ..... It would always have you double and triple checking targets......If you had an area what was pretty flat and no chance of hitting another mound, this thing would fire off targets left and right and would pinpoint with deadly accuracy ....

I'm so sorry that there is so much other underlying things going on in some of the various forums ..... There is so much good in these machines, but they are just machines .....They have their weaknesses ...... There are very few places that we detectorists get to see REAL and HONEST information .... Again, I thank Tom for allowing us to talk freely and share information along with some EXCELLENT guidance along the way to give us the answers we deserve ...... As Tom has said in the past ...It only serves a company GOOD , to have a reputable machine out on the market and fix whatever they can on thier machine to make them reputable , ESPECIALLY if it's an easy fix !!!..... Thanks for listenning .....Sincerely, Jim

If you and EZ do another video......could the units not have the headphones in (provided the little head cam has a sufficent microphone) so we can hear the responses.
And we appreciate you two going out in that cold*** weather to do the video.

Get well soon, I know the pain of Div...........it truly sucks......stay calm & rest.

“Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value ---- zero.”

Terra Digger ,
I am trying to get this entire ordeal behnd me ...... I have showed my movie, and have explained in the past my problems with the AT Pro .... I saw no need to continue showing the falsing .....My partner had a harder time with the falsing than I did , and said that it was just not acceptable .....I actually had less of a time with it, perhaps because I am use to it .... Either way, I am sending the machine back .....It's not right , and needs to be looked at .... There will be people who visit this forum and will see that my intentions were good , and see that all I wanted to see was a good running machine ..... There are also people who will put up with this noise , simply because they are finding targets ... I NEVER once said that the machine did not find targets ...NEVER !!.... I showed the problem and mentioned other short comings of the machine .... If you are a brand specific user , I guess a lot of times as I have said in my other threads, you are more apt to defend your machine over the others that are out there ....It's only normal I guess , but to defend something that is WRONG , does not cut it !!....Call a spade a spade so to speak .... Like that Army commercial, " Be all that you can be " ....... As soon as I mentioned problems I was having , I was so bogged down with trying to defend myself , that I had no time to even show any of my finds, nor did I feel like sharing my finds with a group that was doing nothing but attacking me because I had a problem .... Their defense was always " well mine doesn't do that " .....or " how dare you attack Garrett " ...... I was called names, Tom was called names , and it was like a mini lynch mob of people who NEVER even asked about the problem !!.... I will continue to report the good , the bad, and the ugly !!.... People who can't handle the truth , should see my name and just not even read what I have to say .... Tom's name has been mentioned enough times , that anyone that is interested in hearing THE TRUTH about detectors , I'm sure have already tuned in ... I have shared my information right here on this forum , and have not shared it on others ,because I have seen for the most part , this is a group that is interested in hearing the truth , whether it hurts or not ..... Well, there is one forum that I can't share this info with because I was kicked off of .... If you go to youtube , you can see that I have been followed over there for one last bit of blasting ..... This is the situation I deal with all the time .... Air balance ? .......Do a search for AT Pro Coil and find synthnut1 .......You don't have to watch the movie , just read what was said to get an idea of what I'm dealing with here ....... I'm sure as I said in a VERY early AT Pro thread that Garrett will do the right thing as I am sure that they are a reputable company and they have the technology, or at least many people in the industry to help them ....I only hope that they do well .....They do well , the industry does well, and we ALL benefit ....Thanks, Jim

PS ...Hopefully when my new machine comes ( if they will give me one ), and it does not false , I will pull the earphones so everyone can hear and see that the AT Pro really is all that and bag of chips !!!...... Jim

Coming from a F75. And knowing the difference between a sensitive machine and a problem. Jims machine has a problem. No doubt in my mind. Fixed i think it would be a great machine.

Sorry about the vid. Using the head cam and it being waterproof. The sound is poor. First time using video. First time editing. There will be more to come.

The Garrett users will be shocked/stunned and VERY appreciative of ""all of this honesty"" once resolution acquisition is ascertained with the AT Pro. Some might even apologize....and "thank" us......but DON'T EVER expect it. I am not a 'credit-seeker' and could care less about gaining credit; rather, what is of utmost concern is: technoligical advancement of mankind (through better/improved tools......in this particular case).


I WOULD RATHER HURT YOU WITH HONESTY............THAN MISLEAD YOU WITH A LIE.

The video.

Looks closer to dry sand vs. wet salt sand. What did the AT Pro Grnd Bal at?

Perfect test target.

And when you flip the CZ over to auto-tune (all metal)......you MUST raise Sens to '10'. The Sensitivity in Disc......is completely different from the Sensitivity in all-metal mode. Two entirely different set-up requirements.

LOOKS COLD!!!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The video.
>
> Looks closer to dry sand vs. wet salt sand. What
> did the AT Pro Grnd Bal at?
>
> Perfect test target.
>
> And when you flip the CZ over to auto-tune (all
> metal)......you MUST raise Sens to '10'. The
> Sensitivity in Disc......is completely different
> from the Sensitivity in all-metal mode. Two
> entirely different set-up requirements.
>

Tom, the tide was going out quick. We had planed to do dry,damp and wet. Dry was snow coved and we got to cold to give it a shot in the wet. I did take the CZ and target in the wet for a quick test. It was good.
I did/had dime out the sens when flipping to auto tune. I was able to hear the target on edge deeper than in Disc 0. However we were only testing by the way we hunt this beach. I did not want to add any super settings or over tuning. This beach is in NYC. It is very small and target rich. Unlike beaches where one can walk 100 or so yards without hearing anything. This beach yields a tremendous amount of targets per sweep.

Do you have and super secret settings or tunings you can share? I am really amazed how well it does on the beach. I can't imagine what Fisher could do better.

> LOOKS COLD!!!.........Very!!!

You'll have to wait to see how EZ had his CZ set up ....I will let him comment on that .....Surprisingly , the AT Pro Ground Balanced at around 82 ....The sand was wet , as the tide was moving out .....It does look dry , but was in fact moist to wet since it took us time to check 4 machines ...... EZ checked the very WET sand with his CZ21 and told me that the depth was very similar ....He was in an area that the sand was just about filling in the hole dug with the ring inserted ...... There's a fine line between wet , and getting flooded depending on whether the tide is coming in or going out .... I know that I took my AT Pro and ran it for a short time in the water itself and went into water approx 12 inches deep and it ground balanced pretty much the same as when I was at the test site so I have no reason to believe that I would have gotten much diffent results ..... My Excal was a little bit quieter in the deeper water , but not by much ..... Hope this helps ....Jim

I'm not looking for any atta boys !!...... I'm just telling it like it is for those who I will hope that one day will also be telling it like it is ......I'm tired of the typical " If you can't dazzle them with brilliance , baffle them with B.S. " mentality ........JIm

Are you saying that the AT Pro Grnd Balances to around '82' in the wet salt sand?????

I have found the E-Trac almost always gets better depth in manual sen. set just under the instability level for the given site. Also have found it to get better depth on smallish targets with stock coil verses the 12x15 sef.
Is this just me and my sites or have others experienced similar results???

Exactly! and Exactly!

Tom,
YES , the AT Pro was reading 82 on the ground balance on the beach in wet salt sand ...... I was expecting a low range reading of around 20 or so , but I did balance it a few times in clean sand and that's what it kept reading in different areas .....It was not abnormally noisy after the balance and I could hear it calming down as I did the G.B. .... ...at least not any noisier than it's ever been on the wet salt sand .....Jim

EZ and I were both wondering about the SEF coil as opposed to the Pro Coil on the E Trac ....He has found small gold though with the larger 12 x 15 SEF .... I know that the Pro Coil on my E Trac haas always been good for smaller gold .......A good question, but remembering him finding a tiny flake of gold that went right thru his scoop told me that the SEF has no trouble hitting small gold .....This ring was a LOT bigger than that little flake of gold !!.....Jim