Why have manufacturers seemed to be steering away from the all metal mode instead of putting to use and expanding upon it ??

I cut my teeth on all metal..

And till this day nothing in a VLF is as deep as a threshold based all metal mode..

Used to we only used a disc circuit for the last few inches of assurance..

Nobody did all metal like whites did on the old units 5000s 5900s 6000s 4900 etc blue and black boxes..they were all extremely SMOOTH,,

In that last few years though there's only a few units even using a PROPER all metal mode even if they have one...

Back in the day we used to hunt for relics in allmetal and cross check in disc when the target got into disc range...and nothing has really changed deep target are still out of disc range even on the newer units..Disc modes haven't really gotten no deeper in the last 25+ years...

I'm talking about digging say bullets in the mid teens depth..did everyday out for years and years...set your threshold to a bare hum ground balance dead on use good coil control and finesse and mechanics and height control to keep your threshold butter smooth...listen for slight rises in the threshold or in the case of deep artillery shells and such a dip in the threshold and investigate the Roundness of the report... cross check in disc and if no report you better dig...scratchy you better dig...We knew our units inside and out back then because we kept them tuned to the soil perfectly..No one showed us how to hunt deep or had a book to tell us how to do it..you learned it yourself..and some were better than others and the end of the day by the relics in your pouch counts or how many times you have to go empty the relic pouch..

Then along came a DMC concept...Dual Modes at once...Nautilus...KING of the world when they hit the scene with that Dual Mode...and till this day nothing touches them in a VLF in good dirt..or even poor dirt if you set it right and are patient..I had Jerry tune me a Lower Q coil for my dirt and it worked well...but I also learned how to make the High Q coils work too over time...We could run allmetal listen to the threshold and also hear the disc without a switch flip or meter look..Got so good with them you could tell conductance of a target by the way it behaved in unison with the allmetal...It also taught me a book of knowledge about target behavior and why things do what they do in the soil..Whites has some MIxed mode but there too processed compared to the DMC...You could tell on a DMC by the start of the report on the all metal side to the report on the disc side the conductance by the timing of each..Higher conductors reported closer together lower conductors reported further apart...a button would give a whoop ping whoop report..woop being the threshold rise pingh being int he center and the woop being the other side other the threshold drop.. a .58 caliber bullet was shorter whoop before the ping and the same shorter whoop after the ping..a pieces of Silver was in unison with the whoop and ping start and stop at same time..Iron started a Whoop along time before the ping if there was a False read ping...Like whoop... crackle ping.... whoop..Deep goodies could be right on the edge of no disc ping or no point at all if they were so deep they could cause the disc circuit to see..So a deep tight whoop with no ping or a slight tinker bell ping in the dead center would get you excited....tight and deep no disc report was what you looked for in hunted out camps..

The Nautilus felt is af though you were running 2 separate machines at once..no other has even felt like that..the MXT comes close but still not quite ...MXT still seems digital in comparison..Yet has a Beautiful allmetal threshold in relic mode..It will dig deep if you listen to that waiver of a threshold and quietness of the non disc report..


Thats was my reasoning on the Racer 2s all metal mode...they had the Visual I.D. deeper than the disc mode side I.D. but it was very erratic and jumpy...and a slight threshold rise ddi give a meter reading although it was usually showing it as iron...even good depp target showed as iron..I requested they align the I.D. wit the disc depth that way a person could tell when they got a target that was deeper than the Accurate I.D. ability of the unit..Not good to get a deep slight threshold rise on the allmetal side and see say a 15 pop up on screen...unless you knew better you would dismiss it...BUt if it don't show up you better dig it till you cna read it..Although the Rs are not really deeper in allmetal than disc airtest wise they do punch bad soil in allmetal better so allmetal has advantages of a Racer..I have dug past foot deep bullets in allmetal to prove it that disc did not hit on..


I remember the last time I talked to Troy Galloway on the phone and he was talking about building a Newer Shadow..X8 I think it was...He said all he Knew to do for more depth was to make it run like a Nautilus...dual mode..said he couldn't get disc any deeper..but as we know all metal was deeper..NOTHINGS CHANGED..

That's why Sovereigns are so deep in this soil of mine they can hold a threshold in all metal butter smooth...Install a remote switch for ability to jump back to disc for a cross check and they will just flat out dig...

If they ever put a allmetal threshold based ability on a CTX Look out China you're going to get stabbed on the bottom of the feet LOL!!..

When I was involved in the Fors Relic..I mentioned having the ability to have a dual mode for the ultimate depth...MAYBE Relic 2 will have it LOL..


What I'm mainly trying to show though is for the past 30+ years of Good all metal modes most of the deep stuff out away from trash has been gotten down to about the 14+ inch layer by a skilled operators especially in my areas of hunting where thousands of detectorist have hit the camps and battlefields..

thats one of the reasons the Pulse units do so well they are just a allmetal threshold based mode but can handle Bad dirt and hold that threshold..

That's why usually in good dirt a P.I. and say a Nautilus or 5900 Etc there will be no real advantage to a P.I...the all metla on the nautilus can stay smooth as the p.i. and punch just as deep plus have a way to disc iron....


I have spots around here on hilltops where camps where at...you can't get disc depth..and you can run all metal because the threshold wont hold even on a sovereign..I can take an infimum or TDI or GPX etc there and dig buttons and bullets 6 inches deep..magically...WHY?? because the threshold holds through ability to handle bad ground using Time domain..

I write this to state that please don't abandon all metal modes from a manufacturing perspective..I Actually want to see advances in all metal modes and especially Unison Dual Mode's..

I think Des has alluded to a BBS coming in maybe some sort of NEW way...maybe it will be Dual Mode

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2016 01:41AM by Keith Southern.

I hear you. I spent a good sum of money putting an all metal switch on my Excalibur. The switch on the housing will wear out. Plus it needs to be waterproof. I am allows me to jack the sensitivity all the way up in all metal. It adds inches in the wet sand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2016 04:57PM by goodmore.

I agree Keith, I just bought this 5900Di Pro Plus, SEE BELOW, Because it was as new and never been used, and after this last farce with the MX Sport that has driven me away, Detectors are getting more like iphones because they are employing youngsters that love X-Boxes, Me I hate em,

In my View the MXT's are about as complex as a VLF needs to be, and if a person trains their ears to the machine where Whites Demo'd the MX Sport hitting a Quarter at 11-12 inches the MXT will do it at about 12 and a 1/2 inches and using the 3rd Tone or Prospecting Mode /All Metal you can here it at 19 + Inches using the 10" DD Coil, The Threshold Based Prospecting / AM mode has the power to match most PI Machines,

Most people are always complaining about the weight of different machines Its a Tough world out prospecting, I can understand those who have an Issue with their health but younger people should just man up Because if they ever hit a real Deep target the last thing they will complain about is the weight of the Detector,

Another thing because of wild claims by detector companies, People complain about a detector saying that they are not very deep but they forget to take into account that they saddle it up with an 8x6 coil or smaller and then say the machine is useless, When fitting coils people should factor in what their chosen target is along with the junk and Soil conditions along with the depth that such targets are most likely to be found and even in junk filled sites sometimes it is best to ignore the Small coil Rule and Slap on a Big'un and just go deeper and worry about the Trash Later,As I do 90% of the time at a Certain well hunted Site and where others give up and go home I keep finding the good stuff, It's Crazy but it works.

John


[www.ebay.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2016 06:37PM by auminesweeper.

The ol'e static mode machines of yesteryear

I used to take my CZ20 w/10" coil to the beach/in the water and hunt for gold rings in autotune for many years. Pulled some D E E P ones now and then too (17"/18" on a few)!

Take the F19 and stick a 13" ultimate on it and run it in AM and the depth you can hit a 3 ringer, or a quarter or gold band is unbelievable in good dirt or sand (crazy deep).

MichiganRelicHunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The ol'e static mode machines of yesteryear
>
> I used to take my CZ20 w/10" coil to the beach/in
> the water and hunt for gold rings in autotune for
> many years. Pulled some D E E P ones now and then
> too (17"/18" on a few)!
>
> Take the F19 and stick a 13" ultimate on it and
> run it in AM and the depth you can hit a 3 ringer,
> or a quarter or gold band is unbelievable in good
> dirt or sand (crazy deep).

After watching those Videos on that New Vs Old Tread it seems we are going away from what we once had, The separation was a lot better on them old machines

Well,
Folks do like metered detectors better it seems.

Folks like ID,,they sure don't like to dig deep holes and be let down by say a nail.

PI detectors,,,same can be said here about them as well.

Also,,,we have seen some very good detectors released over the last few years that seem to thrive in sites riddle with ferrous material.

This I think has captivated a larger audience here than some thinks.

So basically is there a lot of interest in this topic with a lot of detectorists??

And btw,,,I have been a member here on this forum for some years now.

Not many post here talking or inquiring about AM use or desires.

So maybe these are at least some of the reasons why not here.

Cheers

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well,
> Folks do like metered detectors better it seems.
>
> Folks like ID,,they sure don't like to dig deep
> holes and be let down by say a nail.
>
> PI detectors,,,same can be said here about them as
> well.
>
> Also,,,we have seen some very good detectors
> released over the last few years that seem to
> thrive in sites riddle with ferrous material.
>
> This I think has captivated a larger audience here
> than some thinks.
>
> So basically is there a lot of interest in this
> topic with a lot of detectorists??
>
> And btw,,,I have been a member here on this forum
> for some years now.
>
> Not many post here talking or inquiring about AM
> use or desires.
>
> So maybe these are at least some of the reasons
> why not here.
>
> Cheers

To be honest I have avoided using the AM mode out of just not wanting to dig junk but I have a good excuse because here we have about 5000 years of metal workings, and it is only since I started prospecting have I found any real use for it,

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2016 08:33PM by auminesweeper.

the MX Sport (iron grunt on) and AT Gold (iron audio on) have 2 tone true all metal modes with ID.

I haven't been hunting in a while, think my last hunt was about 6 months ago.

A certain "Dipstick" lost his ring in the garden,... called out the wife for her ring,... threw it extacly the same way into the garden,... figuring he'd see it land.
Lost His and Hers,... She called him "Dipstick" after that,...
X-terra 705 to the rescue,... 2 ring and a cup of coffee day :-)

But ever since I've first made the remote pinpoint mode on my Excal,... I've been craving machines with SAT All-Metal.
There is nothing quite like getting that short, sharp bounce in All-Metal, switch on the disc and then not hearing a single thing.

DIG!

If they ever put it on a CTX people will break shovels,... order scoop handles by the dozen.
You can do something like a SAT All-metal when you hunt in pinpoint at the beach.
Simply program the button the enable pinpoint lock,... swing a few steps and then at the end of the swing, double hit the button.
You are manualy adjusting your detector to the ground,... you are the SAT.

Dug a silver ring at the beach this way and my buddy just couldn't believe his eyes at the depth.

The F75 Ltd,... such a phenominal machine and no-body told them we needed to be able to switch between ALL-metal and disc with that pinpoint trigger.
Who wants to mess around with that dial or look at the meter for every hit,... when you can simply flip a switch and if the tone is good,... DIG
The current set-up is good, fix us up a dipswitch in the battery pod that allows for this kind of hunting!!

Not a lot of people are interested indigging deep for an All-Metal hit only to discover a nail.
When you are interested in the deep finds, the old finds, the good stuff,... you simply don't care about that extra hole dug.
You will equip yourself with the neccesary tools to dig deep and efficient,... you aren't messing around.

Once you get a hang of a PI and how targets behave, how nails behave,... you quickly start shape discriminating,... a whole different detecting experience.

So I concur with Keith,... we need All-Metal,... don't engineer it the way of the Dodo bird.

That is the main reason I simply won't buy a detector lacking in depth on the All-metal side of things.
I'm not interested in weak All-metal, no EMI problem detectors.
I'm not interested in space-aged tech that has lightning fast seperation and a coil shape that doesn't allow you to hit it with the sweet spot.

I want a small coil with phenominal depth and a ferrous/non-ferrous disc,... and a new pair of boots and a decent digger.
The rest I allready own :-)

Hopefully after the big move,... bought a new house,.... Mrs getting mobile again after a new knee,... and too much work,... I'll be able to spend some quality time with Tector again.

HH
Johnb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2016 08:44PM by scoopjohnb.

There needs to be advances made in putting all metal to use...too powerful of a mode to ignore..

as of late some of the all metal modes have been lacking...even though they are all metal medes..there not audibly pleasing or smooth enough to hear the slight rises the deepies make in the threshold...

Whites did the Threshold the best of anyone....Some of the older Treasure barons Gold Traxx were nice too but not a Whites classic threshold..and some of the odle Bounty Hunters had a great all metal..I used to love the old fisher early 80s threshold and even the old Garrett master hunters..WOW!!

I don't really like these newer scratchy hyper thresholds.too easy to miss a foot deep minnie..

As of late it seems the Niche has become the norm and I have pushed more than my fair share for Niche unmaskers in iron...but I still want the all metal to be paid attention too..

I want a Modern day Nautilus with the ability to also separate like a Relic/GMP/DTVG in iron...it can be done...dual modes and unmasking too..talk about Needing one..!!I

I notice the modern hunter on the forum anyways seems steered by the forums and this forum in particular is a unmasking geared forum ..a niche forum in alot of ways..

And it seems the users are looking at niche iron site machine's as their wanted machine..when in reality there's alot of great technology to pull from to even make the newer hunters have a more pleasing and productive hunt..

Why would a person want to say use a DEUS in a limited dig park or can slaw yard to look for coins...why would a person want to use a CZ 3d to dissect iron..If I wanted to hunt artillery shells I wouldn't use either..I Would use a 5900...

I love unmasking and talking about it and even being involved in it..but it's one branch on the tree of detecting..To become so focused on one thing you forget about the other things..

we still need to have depth too!!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There needs to be advances made in putting all
> metal to use...too powerful of a mode to
> ignore..
>
> as of late some of the all metal modes have been
> lacking...even though they are all metal
> medes..there not audibly pleasing or smooth enough
> to hear the slight rises the deepies make in the
> threshold...
>
> Whites did the Threshold the best of
> anyone....Some of the older Treasure barons Gold
> Traxx were nice too but not a Whites classic
> threshold..and some of the odle Bounty Hunters had
> a great all metal..I used to love the old fisher
> early 80s threshold and even the old Garrett
> master hunters..WOW!!
>
> I don't really like these newer scratchy hyper
> thresholds.too easy to miss a foot deep minnie..
>
> As of late it seems the Niche has become the norm
> and I have pushed more than my fair share for
> Niche unmaskers in iron...but I still want the all
> metal to be paid attention too..
>
> I want a Modern day Nautilus with the ability to
> also separate like a Relic/GMP/DTVG in iron...it
> can be done...dual modes and unmasking too..talk
> about Needing one..!!I
>
> I notice the modern hunter on the forum anyways
> seems steered by the forums and this forum in
> particular is a unmasking geared forum ..a niche
> forum in alot of ways..
>
> And it seems the users are looking at niche iron
> site machine's as their wanted machine..when in
> reality there's alot of great technology to pull
> from to even make the newer hunters have a more
> pleasing and productive hunt..
>
> Why would a person want to say use a DEUS in a
> limited dig park or can slaw yard to look for
> coins...why would a person want to use a CZ 3d to
> dissect iron..If I wanted to hunt artillery shells
> I wouldn't use either..I Would use a 5900...
>
> I love unmasking and talking about it and even
> being involved in it..but it's one branch on the
> tree of detecting..To become so focused on one
> thing you forget about the other things..
>
> we still need to have depth too!!!
>
> Keith

Absolutely Keith, we tend to get side tracked by the latest machine because they drop the Tone Break and then sell the older version we have and loose $300 bucks on the deal, We still don't find any more but we got one and that's all that matters, Years ago I wasted so much money back when detector companies use to bring out a new machine every 2 or 3 years, You can Guess some of the looks I got from the Cook

Then back many moons ago I discovered the MXT's and then it all made sense, In the thousands of hours swinging the MXT NOT once have I ever not found something worth while from coins 2000 years old to a nice little heap of Gold and every thing in between, Using the 3rd tone in Disc can add a good 8 to 10 inches in depth depending on the Target / Coil and soil combination. But if a person is only going to Dig down to the Bleep than they will miss so much and it is those type of folk that always crave more depth but they never investigate the Depth they have and so end up selling a perfectly good machine and buying some high priced all singing all dancing DooDad that ends up on ebay within a month,

This is why I bought that 5900Di PP, I want to put the fun back in to detecting all these modern Gizmo's have made us too serious because we have invested too much money to admit we were wrong and then the brand wars start, Oh Lordy ? Just swing that Coil, That Nugget or Ring don't care what machine found it

John.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2016 09:06PM by auminesweeper.

You have to remember the forums are also a small window in the bigger world of detecting..

I live in an area loaded with hunters I'm the only one on the forums out of all of them I know..

they a great hunters and hardcore hunters and they scoff at the internet..but they make outstanding finds...They know what there doing and how to do it...


Detecting is prospecting for targets and what better way than to become accustomed to a machine than through all metal threshold based hunting..

I think we can have both worlds and MORE all in one unit...

with modern tech a company should be able to overlay disc and allmetal simultaneously in a Nautilus type feed...Whoever creates a micro digital version of a DMC Style in my opinion will make a Killing ...Wonder who it will Be HMMMM??


There's more than one way to get the goodies ....depth is one of them unmasking is another...we need both..

Guys around here are looking for depth DAILY ...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2016 01:44AM by Keith Southern.

scoopjohnb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is nothing quite like getting that short,
> sharp bounce in All-Metal, switch on the disc and
> then not hearing a single thing.
>
> DIG!
>
> If they ever put it on a CTX people will break
> shovels,............................

Johnb,
Excellent post. Couldn't agree more.

Keith!!!... Loved this post. I'm an old timer in age but not one like you, with the years of dedicated experience with years of detecting knowledge. I have dug some deep coins using AM with the standard f-75 and the newer LTD. The all metal on the f75 is not so smooth and even.... but in a field with little trash, it works well. Thanks for bringing this subject to the front. You sir are a gemstone of a guy who's heart and soul are in this for the good of the hobby.....thanks for being that, peace out brother.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have to remember the forums are also a small
> window in the bigger world of detecting..
>
> I live in an area loaded with hunters I'm the only
> one on the forums out of all of them I know..
>
> they a great hunters and hardcore hunters and they
> scoff at the internet..but they make outstanding
> finds...They know what there doing and how to do
> it...
>
>
> Detecting is prospecting for targets and what
> better way than to become accustomed to a machine
> than through all metal threshold based hunting..
>
> I think we can have both worlds and MORE all in
> one unit...
>
> with modern tech a company should be able to
> overly disc and all metal simultaneously in a
> Nautilus type feed...Whoever creates a micro
> digital version of a DMC Style in my opinion will
> make a Killing ...Wonder who it will Be HMMMM??
>
>
> There's more than one way to get the goodies
> ....depth is one of them unmasking is another...we
> need both..
>
> Guys around here are looking for depth DAILY ...
>
> Keith

Keith,
Couldn't agree more.

I think one of the problems could be that most upper level 'final' decisions at most metal detector companies are made by non-detectorists.
(It's typically the president or board of directors...not the engineer(s) who have final say.)
That leads to over-reliance on feedback from novice/potential customers, who can be easily influenced by forums/youtube videos.

Henry Ford didn't give people what they wanted...he gave them what he knew they needed.
He said that if he gave them what they wanted, it would just have been a faster horse.
(Steve Jobs had the same philosophy.)

Once you see what you find and dig using the AM modes, you become a true believer.
HH,
mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2016 11:10PM by Mike in CO.

A buddy of mine has a nice Nautilus IIba with the Whites rod conversion that he can't hardly give away. I would buy it but have no need for it; never did like the idea of 9v batteries with the leads exposed on the bottom of the machine lol I think he was asking $250 for it with a couple coils.

Don @ North GA Relics did have a nice blackbox Whites 5900 with 2 coils for $300. I was almost pursuaded to get it but that was the day I got the AT Gold and didn't have the extra cash on me.

I really enjoy all metal mode hunting. It was something I just learned to do in order to get deep stuff that others were walking over. I think that is one reason I took to the pulse machines so easy. A lot of the same techniques/tricks that work well for all metal, pass over to the pulse machines.

Hi Keith,

..about that XL Pro you just bought, do you plan on using the S.A.T. all metal mode or Normal all metal? I use the S.A.T. in plowed fields looking for any sign of past activity in the form of ferrous & non ferrous finds. I stop using the all metal when I have found an abundance of targets in a concentrated targeted area and switch to motion Disc. mode to save what sanity I have left...LOL

Keith great write up on the Nautius! I agree as the two modes in unison is awesome once learned. I always used My as a Deep coin hunter sometimes in areas where you have to be more selective so I'm listening more for the deep soft almost Disc. Only tone with a round sound. And as you know once you learn it you pretty much can tell a Deep coin as I have hunted some semi trashy parks this way and got some deep keepers.

Maybe going away from the old to the new will bring the old back with a twist and it will be the new, new. Fisher has to do something to stay in the game and so do the others that haven't had a new Flagship is what five years or more??

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I been Relic Hunting over 30 plus years as super deep pure Relic Machine is the Nautilus DMC2b can be beat. I try all model I try Blisstoll V-5 which almost as deep but affect to much by EMI and super unstable threshold and not true All. Metal Mode went back to my DMC2b. Sadly most new model missing a true All-Metal mode. The current market just make only if it "beeps" dig it. Listing to all changes in tone not only in Dics but more importantly All Meta you will find deepers target than only Disc in most hard hit sites. For all use that use model such DMC2b in my view the best /deepest once still in use.

I use Sat allmetal almost exclusively ..it retune's faster than the disc mode I just watch the meter even in thick trash

My dirt's too Harsh for Normal..I just end up retuning every sweep..

Put the 800 Royal flat bottom on for my dirt..and she's deeeeeep..

Pro Xl's I have found are the absolute best at Old nickles at depth..like Buff's and V's and Shields..

I'm happy to add a Sweet Nice XL back to the stable...DEEEEEEP all metal mode for sure..

White's need's to reintroduce that model add a Manual/Auto ground balance and KEEP the meter like it is...this is the Apex analog from whites..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Kind words Ozzie...

BUT I'm sure you could show us all a thing or 2 out in the field I've seen and heard of some of those Nice coins you've snagged!!

Hat's off to you My friend!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Good info fellas..

I have more to add when I get the time hope yall do to..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I use Sat allmetal almost exclusively ..it
> retune's faster than the disc mode I just watch
> the meter even in thick trash
>
> My dirt's too Harsh for Normal..I just end up
> retuning every sweep..
>
> Put the 800 Royal flat bottom on for my dirt..and
> she's deeeeeep..
>
> Pro Xl's I have found are the absolute best at Old
> nickles at depth..like Buff's and V's and
> Shields..
>
> I'm happy to add a Sweet Nice XL back to the
> stable...DEEEEEEP all metal mode for sure..
>
> White's need's to reintroduce that model add a
> Manual/Auto ground balance and KEEP the meter like
> it is...this is the Apex analog from whites..
>
> Keith

Having been a fan of the Disc mode over here because of the huge amount of junk I have made a rod for my own back and that has really restricted my success in some areas I hunt, But what you say is very true, the past year or so I have started to explore the prospecting mode on the MXT A/P and the Single tone in the other modes where the 3rd tone All Metal signal seems to add up to 40% + more depth past the point of where the machine bleeps in the normal relic mode and the prospecting mode adds even more,

In this computer age world we are turning our backs on the basic skills of detecting 101, the trend is to push a button and have the software sort it out and when that don't work we Bag the machine and people laugh when you turn up with one of the older machines but they soon stop when they see the results, People judge the skill of the detectortist by the size of his wallet/machine he has, And the point is there are very few machines that can match the MXT for depth in the Prospecting mode once the person trains their ears to Zoom in on those slight rises in threshold and if the ground allows that 12" coil will give a person more depth than ever thought possible,

Another Depth killer in ground that reads in the 50s to late 70s is people are way to eager to slap on a DD coil, As a rough guide a DD will see a coin in depth equal to it's size IE a 10" round DD will see a coin at 10 inches, and a 11x7 is more equal to a 9 inch round dd, where as a concentric can see a coin at depths equal to it's size but 1 and a 1/3 times it's size is more the norm with depths of 1 and a 1/2 times the size of the coil are not unheard of and if conditions allow sometimes more. Add all this to the All Metal Mode and you can get way more depth than people think possible,

We all know that All Metal add huge depth but add a Concentric to the mix and you get more, you only have to look at what a well tuned Tesoro can do in the right hands,

food for thought though Aye,

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2016 08:02AM by auminesweeper.

The AKA Signum runs a threshold based all metal mode at the same time as running a disc mode, susposed to be a deep machine, almost ready to buy one.
Watch Garys detecting on youtube of it, very interesting how it works.

This thread makes some very good reading,i do own a few modern machines but also a IDX Pro,albeit is not modded with the Mr Bills modification and i doubt that i will get that done either.But it does excel very well on trashy roman/saxon sites,swing slow and low and you will get in between the trash to find the decent targets.

Also just recently bought the 1500 Whites coil,very suprised at how deep this coil will go,of course the depth is related to the size of the target.

These older machines are well worth having in a detectorists arsenal,infact they are a real joy too use.

I hear you Keith.

The MXT is a great machine with a very capable AM mode. Indeed, in Relic, or C&J mode, it is always running in a "mixed mode". Both discrimination and AM mode are present in the sounds it makes, unless you back down on the threshold, in which case the AM signal is silenced.

One reason you find the threshold in Relic mode more pleasing is that White's designed in a slower SAT speed in Relic mode, compared to C&J. The result is a smoother threshold. This is in my mind one of the two weaknesses in the MXT:

1.- Preset, rather than adjustable SAT speed in Relic & C&J mode. Adjustable SAT speed is only available in Prospecting mode.

2.- No backlit display.

I love my MXT and after considerable experience with it, I find that, contrary to popular opinion, C&J mode is actually a little deeper than Relic mode, but only if your ears are able to discern the signal present in a more ratty threshold hum than Relic mode.

______________________

Any married man should forget his mistakes - there's no point in two people remembering the same thing...

Yes I like the Concentric on the Whites 4 filters for sure...

I actually have an adapter that allows me to run bounty hunter coils on the Whites 6.59 kHz units and I did not like the DD's at all on the Whites especially the 4 filter..

Good info John!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Ghound ..Yes it does .

J and D..... A classic modded is super NICE!!Very Nice Buttery smooth threshold!

Rudy very good points on the MXT..

The Je mode is Mixed but is like the mixed mode Whites has used for years..LIke on the eagles and XLTs...

Yet the Relic mode seems to be of the Nautilus feel more or less..Dual mode..and yes Different Sat sped on both those modes for sure...

Seems the disc side on Relic is fast recovery but slow SAT on allmetal..but on Je Disc is slow recovery and SAT is faster in allmetal side...

I would also like to see a manual ground bal option iron volume in relic mode instead of the null option of iron Via trigger position.


Seems like what we need Whites to do and Hope they are listening??

Revamp the Whites Pro Xl

add manual ground bal..leave analog meter...add a mixed mode option to it..

allow for 2 or 4 filter switch..

add variable tone break in disc modes.

BUT DO NOT MESS WITH THE OVERALL RESPONSE OF THE UNIT HAVE IT SO IF I PICKED IT UP AND RAN IT WITH MY EYES CLOSED I WOULD THINK I WAS RUNNING A OLD SCHOOL 5900/6000..

Yall wood sell a ton if yall made a HERITAGE type unit..

Keep that allmetal Buttery smooth ...I know there's problems with certain components but they can be digitized I'm sure..

Same on the MXT..If you want to build a true all terrain unit use the MXT and DONT mess it up..just put it in a waterproof case..add manual ground bal. and add some volume to iron tone...Flashy displays don't equal more finds...KEEP IT SIMPLE BUT EFFECTIVE..YOU would sell a TON...

MInelab

BBS Keep it going...Don't mess it up just revamp it better housing and ergonomics..X-terra hosing is perfect..better yet make it splash proof for the beach hunters...

YOU WOULD SELL A TON!!!!

All these technologies are APEX they just need to be Modernized not abandoned...Y'all aren't giving us deeper machines nowadays so give us the deepest models you have built in a better package...

Keep the Workhorses!!!!

PEOPLE WANT THEM I KNOW THIS!!!!!!!!!



Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2016 06:26PM by Keith Southern.

I don't have enough years of experience to understand what you're saying. If a person hunts with an open screen on a CTX, Etrac, or Explorer, how is that different from the all metal mode you want?