Why have manufacturers seemed to be steering away from the all metal mode instead of putting to use and expanding upon it ??

Bayard Wrote:
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> I don't have enough years of experience to
> understand what you're saying. If a person hunts
> with an open screen on a CTX, Etrac, or Explorer,
> how is that different from the all metal mode you
> want?


Have the CTX, had the Etrac, no experience with the Explorer.
It is different because you can't hear the Ground/Mineral. The unit is allready filtering out the ground signal.
In order:
1) You don't have to listen to it,... provides noise free detecting.
2) Turn the unit into an easy to understand "Beep and Dig"

If you're a land hunter, check out the X-terra 705. Prospecting mode is SAT All-metal. Coin mode is Discrimination.

HH
Johnb

And open screen is the discriminator allowing you to hear all targets...So yes it in all metal accept mode but its not in a true all metal mode..

The Discriminator still has to work to say report the iron target or a silver dollar target..This is done through a process called phase shifting and comparing.....Or Discriminating..

A true all metal mode is a raw channel feed before phase shifting so it has no idea what the target is..it just reports a target..and by doing this it can punch quite deep as it does not fall under the discriminator circuit that causes depth loss through shifting and analyzing and allowing mineral error and such in the circuit to create a I.D.

that's why when you hunt deep on the unit with a threshold based all metal mode you cross check with the disc circuit...

you set your ground ball and set your threshold to barley audible then any little waiver is noticed as a rise in the threshold .. the lower you can get the threshold and still hear it the deep you can hear and or smaller you can hear..

then when a hit is heard you can flip to Disc..if its within range it may show or report a I.D. but if it's out of range you have to dig till you can get an I.D.

I like to hear a faint target in allmetal then cross check in disc and not hear a peep when on Zero disc...I know its out of the range of the disc circuit and it could be a goodie...especially if its round sounding on the all metal side..sweet smooth rise and fall even on both sides of the thrshold as it rises and falls...

If I cross check and its a week scratchy hit or weak iron tone I still dig till its a solid Id as it may be right at the edge of disc depth..if I Cross check and get a good Hit On the Disc side I can make decision to dig or not using a I.D.

You will be amazed at the amount of targets in the soil if your hunting in allmetal threshold based mode that a disc never even senses..deep and or small out of range of the disc circuit

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

I just wish the Whites Jimmy Sierra Super Traq was TRUE all metal.

Bayard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't have enough years of experience to
> understand what you're saying. If a person hunts
> with an open screen on a CTX, Etrac, or Explorer,
> how is that different from the all metal mode you
> want?

Bayard,
To perhaps over-simply...the all metal mode we're referring to is more akin to your CTX in pinpoint mode with the sizing option enabled.
It gives you a lot more solid info about the size and shape of the target, and tends to be less reliant on constant coil motion.

mike

Bayard,

A true All Metal mode is a non-motion mode. You don't have to move the coil and the target is still being detected. This is usually a deeper seeking mode than a discrimination mode.

Running a detector that has only a discrimination mode, even when you run it "wide open" (ie. no discrimination), it still requires that the coil be kept in motion or the target will stop
being detected.

______________________

Any married man should forget his mistakes - there's no point in two people remembering the same thing...

The problem is that some detector manufacturers are labeling this zero discrimination mode as an "all metal" mode since all metals are being detected.

Unfortunately, you have not really turned off the discrimination. A true all metal mode employs no filtering at all, it directly reports a target. In zero discrimination the target is still being filtered, but you are telling the machine to report all filtered targets as good targets. The bad news is you still are losing depth and sensitivity compared to the true all metal modes. On the Whites U1-3 Sierra Madre metal detector, it was manufactured for one purpose, and one purpose only. To find metal objects deep in the ground.
The larger the metal, the better it found it.

It is pure GEB (VLF), it has no motion discrimination circuits, it has no filters built into the machne at all. The GEB motion detection circuit, has to have both the R signal and the X signal. The Sierra Madre only needs the R signal. If there is ground minerals, the GEB control cancels the minerals out so all it sees is the metal in the ground. That is unlike the motion detection circuit. It sees both signals, and uses filters to separate ferrous from non-ferrous.

When filters and discrimination circuits are placed in a detector, it is not as good a machine as a pure VLF running on all metal mode...

Being a pure VLF machine, it will find metal better and louder then any other detector. Up to its limits of course. If the object is too deep, it will not see it. If it cannot find it, I doubt that another machine would find it either.

Melbeta



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2016 10:24PM by William Monday.

Keith,

In a nut shell, that is what Whites tried to do with the MX Sport. You have an all metal mode, prospecting mode, and mixed mode audio relic program. You can adjust the SAT levels in all three of them. In the all metal mode, you just hear the straight all metal side of the machine. With the mixed mode, it is the same as on the other Whites machines like the MXT...where you hear both channels; the main difference is that you can adjust the SAT level on the MX Sport.

If they get the screen cracking problem under control, that machine will be a great candidate for the machine you are describing...MXT like, with adjustable SAT, in a waterproof housing. The other problems with the machine, are exclusive to the disc modes and multi tone options in them. I think this is why a lot of the people that are really liking this machine, are using it in all metal or prospecting mode. Even the disc mode Relic program with just 2 tones wasn't bad. With mine, I hunted in either that mode or all metal. I will have another one once the screen crack issues are resolved.

Interesting Daniel..

From the First Video I saw of the MX Sport Or should I say heard while watching it seemed not my style and sort of Treasure pro type sound...Didn't seem right...

I haven't heard the Mixed mode..is it that good MXT Relic type unison mode.. ..smooth??

Id like to see just a MXT in a Surfmaster box locked into relic mode..

My just have to build my own..LOL

Thanks for the info..Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla