Western Frontier Site

A friend and I did a road trip to locate and detect a Western Frontier site we'd been researching, the site is pure 1860's. I think we found it

I'd be curious if you guys could help ID some of this stuff, it's not the normal kind of stuff we find on the left coast



I should get pics of the backs of the buttons, as some of these are like transitional between flat buttons and normal two piece buttons.



My hunting buddy thinks that large rectangular piece might of been some kind of powder measuring implement?



I should get a close up of it, but notice that bullet on the bottom slightly right of the center was carved into something, not sure what?







Looks like I got part of a Infantry Bugle Hat Insignia pin, bummer it wasn't complete:



Thanks for looking,
Brian

3 ringers and Sharps for the lead with a few colts and such too..

the casings I see a couple maynard shells and some post civil war casings alot of them like 1870 rolling block's

Those eagle buttons are late 1865 on buttons like maybe indian wars again 1870s..

If I was a betting man I would say your on a transitional suit like 1867-1872??

Nice digs

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Keith Southern Wrote:
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> 3 ringers and Sharps for the lead with a few colts
> and such too..
>
> the casings I see a couple maynard shells and some
> post civil war casings alot of them like 1870
> rolling block's
>
> Those eagle buttons are late 1865 on buttons like
> maybe indian wars again 1870s..
>
> If I was a betting man I would say your on a
> transitional suit like 1867-1872??
>
> Nice digs
>
> Keith

Hi Keith,

According to all the research we did the site was est. 1859 and abandoned before 1870.

My hunting buddy got a button (in killer condition) just like this one:



He also got some early USMC buttons, and more variety, mine oddly were all more or less the same (back stamps are different, but fronts are the same). Oddly only a single coin was found., a lonely 1854 seated half dime.

Thanks for taking a look.

HH,
Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2016 07:07AM by Cal_cobra.

Very, very awesome!

Neat finds Brian.----I love that Bugle hat insignia.-----BTW, what's that triangular piece?----------Del

Wow! what a trip that was.

That's where a knapsack strap hook clips into Del ..

Good info Brian..

Those ringtail sharps bullets are tie base bullets and they are 1859 and used awhile...

I could see it going from 1860 to 1870's on your site..

yet it has a more solid mid to late 1860 feel from your finds..

Almost looks like a North Georgia 1864 site..LOL!! except for these big shell casings...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Nice finds Brian.

What machines were you and Tom swinging?

El

Great adventure, Brian! Its hard on the Left Coast to find such locations, for sure. I am curious, just how far off the beaten track was your site? I am not looking for clues to poach, just some hope.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

If it's on federal or state land you better run now while you can..

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Elbert Wrote:
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> Nice finds Brian.
>
> What machines were you and Tom swinging?
>
> El

Thanks everyone!

El I was using my trusty Racer2 with the 5x10" DD, and Tom had is Exp2.

I think Tom had an advantage with the Explorer as the soil had some odd mineralized properties to it, and unless the targets were shallow, my audio reports were not good like they usually are, so I had to investigate anything that made a sound to see if I could bring up a diggable tone by either scraping away some topsoil, or doing the Minelab wiggle, so it slowed me down - lol

I bet the Impact would've shined there with the right frequency selection (talk about an awesome site to test it out at!).

HH,
Brian

Pasttom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great adventure, Brian! Its hard on the Left
> Coast to find such locations, for sure. I am
> curious, just how far off the beaten track was
> your site? I am not looking for clues to poach,
> just some hope.

Pretty far off the beaten path.

Lawrenzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it's on federal or state land you better run
> now while you can..

No it's not, and I don't appreciate your insinuation.

Great bunch of finds Brian! Are those some Phoenix buttons I see?

SeabeeRon Wrote:
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> Great bunch of finds Brian! Are those some
> Phoenix buttons I see?


Thanks Ron! No Phoenix buttons on this trip, but need to get out to a PB site this winter once the ground softens up a bit.

HH,
Brian

Great site you have there Brian! Leave a little so you can test the Impact!

Congrats = nice pile of relics there Brian

love the buttons and hat insig

Is that a teat cartridge I see in the 3rd pic right of the round piece with 3 holes?

Tom Slick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great site you have there Brian! Leave a little so
> you can test the Impact!


Believe me, I can't wait to test out the Impact at this and other sites....I really hope it's coming soon as my relic sites open up during the winter months.

MichiganRelicHunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Congrats = nice pile of relics there Brian
>
> love the buttons and hat insig
>
> Is that a teat cartridge I see in the 3rd pic
> right of the round piece with 3 holes?

Thanks MRH!

I'm not sure if that's a teat cartridge? Here's some additional pics of some of the "mystery" items if anyone wants to take a stab at their purpose, and the button backmarks.






HH,
Brian

The item on the left in the top picture looks like a sword scabbard drag.

that's small sword drag is off a cavalry insignia..



Like the that Horn insignia you have is for Infantry the swords are for cavalry..

that item that's round with 3 holes I've seen before I'm trying to think about it ..

Could be a Telegraph line pulley..Yet not quite certain at the moment..let me go look...

Update ....

here's a bigger one...patented 1864..



Yours is some sort of Pulley wheel..For what?? yours seems to be to small for heavy work..



Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2016 09:43PM by Keith Southern.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that's small sword drag is off a cavalry
> insignia..
>
> [i957.photobucket.com]
> 2baea0e4c174a3a6003fcfdeb06d4c%20-%20Edited_zpsx5x
> vft1b.jpg
>
> Like the that Horn insignia you have is for
> Infantry the swords are for cavalry..
>
> that item that's round with 3 holes I've seen
> before I'm trying to think about it ..
>
> Could be a Telegraph line pulley..Yet not quite
> certain at the moment..let me go look...
>
> Update ....
>
> here's a bigger one...patented 1864..
>
> [i957.photobucket.com]
> _fullxfull.737826912_les7_zpszcqz5oqi.jpg
>
> Yours is some sort of Pulley wheel..For what??
> yours seems to be to small for heavy work..
>
>
>
> Keith

Thanks for the cavalry insignia ID. Would be great to find some of these military accoutrements fully intact.

I wondered if that pulley could be from a flag pole?

Thanks again for your IDs!

Brian

Man, Keith is a treasure trove of knowledge and information.

Thanks for the education Keith.

El

Here's some close-ups of that carved 3 ringer:



Not sure what the purpose of it was, but I sure wouldn't want to get shot with it!

EDIT: Found an almost identically carved bullet on ebay and the sucker sold for $74!

[www.ebay.com]


hh,
Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2016 11:16PM by Cal_cobra.

Looks like a dang artichoke.....or maybe a bishop piece in a chess set.....odd.

Cool find!

ozzie Wrote:
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> Looks like a dang artichoke.....or maybe a bishop
> piece in a chess set.....odd.


Interesting piece, someone took the time to carve it, but for what purpose I have no idea. It kind of reminds me of a pineapple finial:

MichiganRelicHunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Congrats = nice pile of relics there Brian
>
> love the buttons and hat insig
>
> Is that a teat cartridge I see in the 3rd pic
> right of the round piece with 3 holes?

Wayne I think you're exactly right on the teat cartridge, I googled it and compared it to an auction photo (dang thing sold for $26 too!) and it's identical:



I'd never even heard of a teat cartridge before:

" Another scarce one .32 teat fire cartridge. Yet another unsuccessful attempt at a cartridge ignition system .32 teat fire, see the scans. This strange looking cartridge loaded from the front of the cylinder and the teat protruded from the back where the hammer would crush it upon firing, so the bullet is sunk back in the copper case. There were at least two types a round teat and flat teat this is a flat one as can be seen..."

Yeah its 100% carved,,,that was the way of the board soldier..

They carved anything On there mInd ....I MEAN ANYTHING..I have even found some XXX ones...Ill leave it at that

yours reminds me of a pine cone maybe not quite finished before he tossed or or had to go on the skedaddle.....Those Cavalry guys were alot of Times sleeping Boots and saddles..


Me and a buddy hit a spot one time ...it was lull spot not alot of fighting for a few days torrential rains had set in june of 1864...must of dug over 50 Beautiful carves in one little spot..almost like a competition was going on...chess pieces...roses...crosses..you name it they were carving them..Yes even pine cones...Wonder how many pines were up north say in Indiana or New York in the 1860's..Ive seen alot of pine cones carved..might of been unique to them...Do yall Have pines in Cali?

Makes the mind race does it not??? to think 150 years ago a man sat there and whatever was on his mind he tried to ease his thoughts a little by whittling/Carving for a few minutes...

Thinking of home or missed ones or lost ones or even what lies ahead...

I love the carves....very personal..I love to dig them...I love the field made pencils the best though,, I know they scribbled out the thoughts to another far away!


Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah its 100% carved,,,that was the way of the
> board soldier..
>
> They carved anything On there mInd ....I MEAN
> ANYTHING..I have even found some XXX ones...Ill
> leave it at that
>
> yours reminds me of a pine cone maybe not quite
> finished before he tossed or or had to go on the
> skedaddle.....Those Cavalry guys were alot of
> Times sleeping Boots and saddles..
>
>
> Me and a buddy hit a spot one time ...it was lull
> spot not alot of fighting for a few days
> torrential rains had set in june of 1864...must of
> dug over 50 Beautiful carves in one little
> spot..almost like a competition was going
> on...chess pieces...roses...crosses..you name it
> they were carving them..Yes even pine
> cones...Wonder how many pines were up north say in
> Indiana or New York in the 1860's..Ive seen alot
> of pine cones carved..might of been unique to
> them...Do yall Have pines in Cali?
>
> Makes the mind race does it not??? to think 150
> years ago a man sat there and whatever was on his
> mind he tried to ease his thoughts a little by
> whittling/Carving for a few minutes...
>
> Thinking of home or missed ones or lost ones or
> even what lies ahead...
>
> I love the carves....very personal..I love to dig
> them...I love the field made pencils the best
> though,, I know they scribbled out the thoughts to
> another far away!
>
>
> Keith

Keith you may well be right on the carved miniball as a pine cone would make sense, and we have tons of pine trees in California. A guy could get addicted to digging these civil war era sites, and what's fun (for me at least) is that a lot of these things I have no idea what they are when I dig them, and then you guys help ID them. It's an awesome lesson and it really brings history alive! I think after a few more hunts at this site, I'll have a nice collection of west coast civil war relics, that's not something easy to find on the left coast! I'm dying to dig a belt buckle, or cartridge plate, probably dreaming as these are NOT battlefields, so what's the likely hood someone would loose or toss out something like that.

I'm curious. My friend and I contemplated as to why out of ~ 300 targets dug between the two of us, only a single period coin was found. I suspected that someone may have been there before, and cherry picked all the high tones, but then again there were a lot of high tone targets found. Even the shallow miniballs came in as a high tone on the Racer2 (although I've adjusted my high-tone to start @ 65 for these older sites). I've read that enlisted soldiers were paid in silver and officers were paid in gold (not sure if that's true?). My detecting partner theorized that there were almost no coins because they were being paid in script. I dunno.

Thanks and HH,
Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2016 05:08AM by Cal_cobra.