5/8/17 Nokta Impact observations and updates

After three weeks with the Impact, I am still impressed. Here is an update of my current situation and experiences:

First, Video recording.

I took the plunge and bought a new video camera and mount. The current camera I have is poor on the sound and the way I had it mounted, you would get motion sick watching the videos. With my new equipment, I plan on doing many videos om me metal detecting, sharing my experience and skill. BTW, A big thank you to Bill S. as I watched how he has his camera set up and I plan to have it set up like wise.

Second, Impact observations:

This last weekend, I got out only once as heavy rain killed my Sat ans Sun hunting. As part of my testing routine, I am hitting places that have been cleaned of all the low hanging fruit.

My old school. This place I have found 20 or more silvers. The place was well hunted before I got there. I worked it with the Etrac and Ctx, my father with the Deus. This trip I didn't get any great targets, but the thing was, how the Impact performed was more interesting to me.

You see, in the past, the CTX ran quiet with discrimination. If I opened up the discrimination on the CTX, it sounded like a confusing chatter box. On the Impact, the machine seemed to easily differentiate between targets. I spent more time analyzing signals than digging them(which is OK because in the long run it will pay off big). I had NO idea that there were THAT many targets there.

I was working where the old bleachers, and there were loads of iron nails and some conductives. The way the machine separated was one thing, but the realization that hit me was a whole another thing.

Realization:
Up until this point, the unmaksing I discovered with the CTX was when they stripped away a one inch layer of nails and all kinds of targets appeared. This machine, was showing me masking that the CTX was suffering from. It was like all of the sudden, I could understand the what the machine was seeing. It was a strange revelation.

Now, I love the CTX and have been using it SINCE it first came out(in fact I own two of them), and I had a huge argument on another forum about CTX and lacking in unmasking. No doubt in an isolated test, the CTX can unmask, but out in the field, it's a much different story.

All in all, I still need about 20-30 hours more testing before I can come to any sort of final conclusion.

"You're right...the CTX can unmask: when prototyping it 3 targets in a hole wasn't uncommon: Ferrous, non-ferrous, coke, all together and stacked up.
But the Impact seems to be an extremely good 'unmasking unit' especially with that small coil they have for it?"

Since the update I've noticed the Impact handles EMI better. I seem to notice, though, that the ID#s have changed too(?). Now I'm not much of a park hunter preferring relic hunting so I use IDs as just a loose guide caring more about tones. Yesterday, though, I did a couple of hours in a park and noticed some odd changes (I think). Wheat pennies ID lower than zincs, clad dimes and zincs come in pretty close to the same. I came home and did some testing in the yard....A Barber dime comes in lower than a clad dime, a copper penny comes in lower than a zinc penny, gold ring and a nickle come in the same (normal). I don't usually pay much attention to the numbers so maybe this is the way it has always been with the Impact? I reset my saved settings back to where I had them prior to the update. I just thought it strange that a copper would come in lower than a zinc and the same with silver vs. clad.

Dean

bado1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since the update I've noticed the Impact handles E
> MI better. I seem to notice, though, that the ID#s
> have changed too(?). Now I'm not much of a park hu
> nter preferring relic hunting so I use IDs as just
> a loose guide caring more about tones. Yesterday,
> though, I did a couple of hours in a park and noti
> ced some odd changes (I think). Wheat pennies ID l
> ower than zincs, clad dimes and zincs come in pret
> ty close to the same. I came home and did some tes
> ting in the yard....A Barber dime comes in lower t
> han a clad dime, a copper penny comes in lower tha
> n a zinc penny, gold ring and a nickle come in the
> same (normal). I don't usually pay much attention
> to the numbers so maybe this is the way it has alw
> ays been with the Impact? I reset my saved setting
> s back to where I had them prior to the update. I
> just thought it strange that a copper would come i
> n lower than a zinc and the same with silver vs. c
> lad.
>
> Dean

I will check these out ASAP.

I carry a clad dime, CW minie ball, and mangled front to a CW NC State Seal button with me when detecting, for the purpose of placing on the ground occasionally to check tones and numbers.

I noticed 2 days ago that when I changed to the VLX2 mode from DI2 the TIDs for these targets, which are supposed to be NORMALIZED, varied significantly. I wondered about that at the time.
Now, it looks like some testing is in order to see what else might be going on.

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Yeah Wayne, I think something changed With the TIDs and this update. It's all good, though, as you tend to get used to a particular machine's #s. Although, it seemed weird, during my tests that zinc and clad come in HIGHER than their copper and silver counter parts in all modes (normalized).

Dean

There is 2 different sets of normalized tid numbers per the Manuel sheet. I think Gen Gen d sta sta d vlx1 vlx2 and maybe deep mode are one set of normalized I'd numbers with a iron ID range of 0 to 15. And di2 di3 di99 di4 and cog are there own set of normalized Id numbers with a iron range of 0 to 40



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2017 02:23PM by Pedlar mills.

Just my experience based on lots of experiments:

Targets have a "corner frequency / -3dB freq" that can vary slightly depending on what detector frequency you use to measure it. It's dependant on the target shape, particularly whether thin or thick.
So a target that is actually a '6KHz target' will measure as a 6KHz target if the detector runs at or near 6 KHz (say 4 - 8 kHz). But measure it at 20 kHz, and it may appear to be a 6.5KHz target. So even if the ID values are perfectly normalised, the ID reading can be different.

I believe this is down to skin effect, where the magnetic field doesn't penetrate the target so deep at higher detector frequencies. So a thick target looks less substantial at higher frequencies.

coil sizes affect this too.

HH
Mike

Yes, there are two different sets of IDs per the manual. One with the expanded ferrous range to 40 and the other compressed range to 15. It's all good. What I thought was different was clad and zinc coming in higher than copper and silver whether in DI3 or VLX modes. Has anybody else experienced this ? Perhaps, just something due to my ground. I can't think of another machine doing that... Not even other Nokta units. May have been the operator!

I'm headed out tomorrow and will pay closer attention. Thanks.

Dean

bado1 ..... This does indeed sound like a problem with ID.

bado1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, there are two different sets of IDs per the m
> anual. One with the expanded ferrous range to 40 a
> nd the other compressed range to 15. It's all good
> . What I thought was different was clad and zinc c
> oming in higher than copper and silver whether in
> DI3 or VLX modes. Has anybody else experienced thi
> s ? Perhaps, just something due to my ground. I c
> an't think of another machine doing that... Not ev
> en other Nokta units. May have been the operator!
>
> I'm headed out tomorrow and will pay closer attent
> ion. Thanks.
>
> Dean

I just air tested my Impact, zincs are reading higher than copper pennies. I have the latest update as well.

Dan(NM) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bado1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, there are two different sets of IDs per the
> m
> > anual. One with the expanded ferrous range to 40
> a
> > nd the other compressed range to 15. It's all go
> od
> > . What I thought was different was clad and zinc
> c
> > oming in higher than copper and silver whether i
> n
> > DI3 or VLX modes. Has anybody else experienced t
> hi
> > s ? Perhaps, just something due to my ground. I
> c
> > an't think of another machine doing that... Not
> ev
> > en other Nokta units. May have been the operator
> !
> >
> > I'm headed out tomorrow and will pay closer atte
> nt
> > ion. Thanks.
> >
> > Dean
>
> I just air tested my Impact, zincs are reading hig
> her than copper pennies. I have the latest update
> as well.


Well that's no good.-----Did this come about with/since that latest upgrade?

D&P-OR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan(NM) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > bado1 Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Yes, there are two different sets of IDs per t
> he
> > m
> > > anual. One with the expanded ferrous range to
> 40
> > a
> > > nd the other compressed range to 15. It's all
> go
> > od
> > > . What I thought was different was clad and zi
> nc
> > c
> > > oming in higher than copper and silver whether
> i
> > n
> > > DI3 or VLX modes. Has anybody else experienced
> t
> > hi
> > > s ? Perhaps, just something due to my ground.
> I
> > c
> > > an't think of another machine doing that... No
> t
> > ev
> > > en other Nokta units. May have been the operat
> or
> > !
> > >
> > > I'm headed out tomorrow and will pay closer at
> te
> > nt
> > > ion. Thanks.
> > >
> > > Dean
> >
> > I just air tested my Impact, zincs are reading h
> ig
> > her than copper pennies. I have the latest upda
> te
> > as well.
>
>
> Well that's no good.-----Did this come about with/
> since that latest upgrade?

The new update was released while my Impact was in transit, I uploaded it as soon as I received it, so, I have no baseline to go by. It does seem odd, I'm wondering what other target ID's are being thrown out of whack. I've only been out once and hunted a pounded site polluted with iron, the numbers were all over the place, I hunted by repeatable tone response primarily in 14 khz.

The TID seems alright to me actually.

These are the in ground TID numbers I observed I was in 20khz di3 on 4/25 ish(as reported in my previous post on this forum):

One TID was a solid 78 and it was three zincs in one hole

Most good condition(full circular shape) zincs came in at 70-71 at 0-4 inches

Rotted zincs 64-69 same depth

Copper pennys were 80-86

Quarters 89-91

Dimes were 84-89

Wheats 75-78

New test

20khz/85 gain

Di99
copper penny-81(a bit jumpy id as well)-same
zinc penny-70-same
silver nickel-36
clad dime-85-same
barber dime-84
clad quarter-89-90-same
standing liberty-85-88

di2
same

di3
same

14khz/85 gain

Di99
copper penny-76
zinc penny-66
silver nickel-30
clad dime-78
barber dime-77
clad quarter-88
standing liberty-87

di2
copper penny-76
zinc penny-66
silver nickel-30
clad dime-77-78
barber dime-75-76
clad quarter-87
standing liberty-85

di3
copper penny-76
zinc penny-66
silver nickel-30
clad dime-78
barber dime-77
clad quarter-88
standing liberty-87

In my experience, for some reason, Barber dimes come in lower sometimes than regular dimes or other silver dimes(this is on many different machines). What baffles me is the standing liberty coming in lower than the clad quarter. The TID coming in high due to a higher frequency is no surprise there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2017 05:00AM by Beyonder-Pa.

Hello all. There has been no change in the VIDs with the update guys... the update was made to advance the frequency shift feature only.

As a reminder - IMPACT utilizes 2 different ID scales according to the search modes. In DI2, DI3, DI4, DI99 and COG modes, the ferrous range is 00-15 at factory defaults. In GEN, GEN (D), STA, STA (D), DEEP, VLX1 and VLX2 modes, the ferrous range is 00-40.

If you are using the normalized IDs, the device will generate the 14kHz IDs in each frequency. However, the VIDs will still be differentin DI2, DI3, DI4, DI99 and COG modes versus the GEN, GEN (D), STA, STA (D), DEEP, VLX1 and VLX2 modes.

Regards,

Dilek