Golden Sabre II, Pantera, and Royal Sabre for Gold rings?

Minelab 705 for gold rings. Just have to set notches up properly and go to town.

Harold,

The times when I've focused on watching for lower conductors in the nickel/tab range are when I've been successful finding gold rings. (land hunter here) If there's a magic detector out there that finds lots of gold rings it would have to be the water detector which allows you to hunt the best location for finding lost gold rings; the water/beach. I think having a 3 or 4 tone machine helps us land hunters greatly if we want to have a go at 'playing the odds' of finding gold rings and minimizing the number of pull tabs and junk.

Rich -



Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gonebeepin, I saw one on eBay and that got Me thin
> king on this topic. That is a deal at the Moment b
> ut as with eBay it will surely go for more? I woul
> d rather have the Pantera with the Manual GB. And
> the Big Cat decals look cool. Lol. But Panteras ar
> e rare as only made 2 Years I think? Had a shot at
> a Mint one and should have grabed it. Oh Well.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

Gonebeepin', Funny You should mention the Nickel readings as I was thinking about this the other day.
In 17 Years Detecting I have never dug a Gold Ring that read Nickel. And I have Dug a ton of Nickels from Jefferson's to Vs. The few Gold Rings I Dug all read Foil.
I know they can read all over but that is just Me.

Re.: the exact "nickel " TID versus gold rings:

Back in the mid 1980s, some guys made chart/plots, by air-test sampling hundreds of gold rings (I guess they had access to a jewelry store, haha), and then sampling hundreds of typical low conductors typically dug from turf.

And there was actually only a very small percentage that read exactly right at "nickel". Assuming an expanded tid/vdi scale, that is.

If it's a machine with broad grouping categories (like the cz6), then more seem to fall in the "nickel" tid.

So the early "ring enhancement programs" (which you were supposed to program into your accept/reject notches) actually had you REJECT the exact nickel tid.

Tom ..... The CZ series units have the tightest nickel window in the industry.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> Tom ..... The CZ series units have the tightest ni
> ckel window in the industry.


How can this be ? The cz6 has 7 quadrants, right ? Of which 6 are in the conductive range (leaving the lowest range for iron). So with 6 placements of the various objects (1 of which is "nickel"), how can that be "tight" ?

By broad vs tight, I'm thinking of machines like the Whites Eagle, XLT, etc... Where there's 95 different #s that objects can land on. Yes I realize that, realistically speaking, an object being waved "waffles" between a few #'s. So nickels, for instance, if I recall, on the Eagle, came in at 19 to 20-ish, right ? So even if we give a few digits to each item, we still have 50 ish quadrants, vs the 6 of the cz6.

If my understanding is correct, the CZ's 7 "quadrants" aren't th same as a 1-99 TID like a lot of lcd screen machines.
It's an indicator of the probable target based on the processing, not a meter for conductance.

TabZilla Wrote:
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> If my understanding is correct, the CZ's 7 "quadra
> nts" aren't th same as a 1-99 TID like a lot of l
> cd screen machines.
> It's an indicator of the probable target based on
> the processing, not a meter for conductance.


But the fact remains, when all is said and done, that the "decision" made by the machine has 7 zones to put the targets into. Not 99.

Example: If you wave a square tab (the beefy type) on the CZ6 it reads "square tab". Right ? (of course). And if you wave a $5 gold, it also reads right on square tab, right ? Since, of course, they are sseeeooo close in TID.

However, on the Whites scale (1 to 95), if you wave the beefy square tab is comes up as 46-47-ish. If you wave the $5 gold , it comes up as 48 - 49-ish. A very discernable numerical difference. But on the Cz6, it's simply a "square tab" range. Thus the "broad grouping".

This subtle distinction netted me a $5 gold in a place where I'd notched out square tabs (since there was an ocean of them underneath bleacher-grandstand tearouts). I'd knocked out 47 and downward. The $5 came in at 48-ish. Pheeewww. The cz6 would have missed that d/t the broader grouping categories.

So too do I suspect that their "nickel" category is a broad grouping of conductivity .

Of the 7 ID windows of a CZ........ each window is not linear. Not the same conductive bandwidth. Probably the best way to describe this is: any target that gives a CZ a "Nickel" ID (with subsequent high-tone)..... will ID as a 29, 30, 31 and 'some' of the 32 range on a F75. This is only about a 3.7 point ID span. A very 'tight' window. Yes, on a digital platform...... you can dig ONLY the 29, 30 & 31 ID's....... and have a (somewhat) similar success-rate as you would with a CZ........ except........ the CZ is more apt to do it to greater depths. Those of whom hunt with a CZ have probably experienced a very good success-rate at finding Nickels........ vs...most any other detector.

I recently has a Feb 2017 calibrated CZ5 and a CZ70 Pro that wasn't calibrated. I had just dug a buffalo nickel earlier that day with the eTrac after previously hunting the same area with the CZ5. The nickel was just 2 to 3 inches deep. I was curious as to why I didn't find it with the CZ. I quickly had my answer. It IDed as "foil" on both CZ units. So I started going thru all my older dug nickels to see where they IDed. Most all of them IDed either as foil or tab. The only ones that IDed Nickel were better condition nickels...mostly Jeffersons and only 1 dug buffalo. I tested them with the CTX and eTrac and F75 too. On the CTX and eTrac, the numbers ranged from 12-12 to 12-16. The F75 was a spread of the upper 20s on ID if I remember right. I mostly paid attention to the Minelab numbers.

On the CTX, I run a combined tone mode and have a nickel bin with high tone set for it...my bin range is that 12-12 to 12-16 range. It has been my nickel nabber and I'm guessing, will eventually nab a gold ring too.

Thanx Tom . I just assumed that all the "quadrants" of the CZ's were equal "bites" of TID ranges

Thanx Daniel: Yes, if a worn "ground kissed" older nickel no longer reads as "nickel", then that means the nickel range is "tight". It also means the "foil" range of the CZ is quite broad. I mean, those nickels you're saying read "foil" would had to have been the extremely high end of the "foil" range, eh ? The only foil that would read that high on expanded TID machines, would be heavier wadded pieces.

Daniel TN & Tom........... Correct. Hence, part of the justification/inception of the ""old coins"" CZ-"3D".

Just a fact of life most older nickles not Jefferson read a tad lower on any unit due to their metallic makeup and CZ3D in enhanced mode is just wider to pick them up...whereas a conventional CZ will call them foil or foil to nickle jump.

The Deeper Foil, Nickel bounce is More likely a older V or Buffalo if it bounce to Nickel every other swing. My original 1021 CZ-3D on super Deep V Nickels it would do a Foil, Pull tab, Nickel bounce with a Buried depth needle pegged all way to the right. When ever I got this type Bounce it was a V or Older Buffalo Nickel over 10".
If it stay foil it was more likely a .22 shell casing. If it just bounced foil to tab is was a deep beaver tail. I knew that Detector like the back of My hand.

There is another machine in the same family that has a little edge.
The "Golden Sabre Plus".

I say this because when comparing specs, the Golden Sabre Plus runs at 15 Khz vs 12 Khz for the Golden Sabre II
(The Golden Sabre Plus holds the record for the only 15 Khz machine Tesoro ever made)







As we have come to know, 15 Khz is entry level when looking for gold.
Manufactures have produced machines, gold machines, anywhere from 15 Khz to 100 Khz.

Garrett gold machines are 15 Khz, and couple of 50 Khz machines back in the day.
Fisher has had great success with 19 Khz, then came out with a nervous machine at 78 Khz that does well.
White's has stayed with 50 khz for decades.
And so forth for all the other worthy competitors.


I have a Golden Sabre Plus.












I looked for over 5 years for one.

The early production, thin, white, 8", open center, coil, is a very good performer.
Most often present on "Plus" and "Royal" models, and the Silver Sabre plus.

*

Now,... the subject here is, (thumbnail).... are there tweaks, notches, tones, settings, etc.......
To better make gold rings stand alone.

Tough,.... super tough.

Number one reason, they come in all shapes and sizes, the alloys vary, their position in the ground varies,....
There are too many variables.

And the the non keepers that can mimic a wedding band,.... same for them.

Too many variables.

What you guys are asking about is a "Sample Analyzer"

They are "way" too big and heavy to haul into the field, and you need high voltage AC.
And, I don't think they have any of what you would call depth, and all that dirt, I don't think so.

What do the kid's say?

"Not Today"

LOL


Now,...... roll ahead to year 2050


The cutting edge machines of the day will weigh about 2.5 lbs.
They will have an analyze circuit that will inform the user of the "makeup" of the target.
Al, steel, iron, copper, silver, brass, gold.... in a sub menu, 10Kt, 14Kt, 18Kt.......

Analyzing samples is tricky.
Let's stick to metals......

By the sample's conductivity?
(Sounds cool to me)
Groups things pretty well.

By the sample's magnet properties?
(sounds cool to me)
So long as you can turn it on and off.
The guys looking for old ferrous targets are also looking for non magnetic targets.

By the sample's density?
(sounds cool to me)
You just added about 1 lb to the machine,.... 2050 be dammed.
And if you go looking for gold in the desert, where guys throw up clay pigeons and practice trap shooting.....
You are going to have to try another location.

What you guys are keen on,...... we aren't there yet.

With the right machine, the right headphones, tons of experience, a user can increase their odds due to their hard work.

Like the Sovereign guys, they can tell the difference between iron, silver, and gold.
(with a pretty high accuracy rate)

Advanced users, like Ron on Findmall, or Ralph the owner of Sun Ray Electronics, or his wife.
With a blindfold on, advanced Sovereign users can call out the makeup of a target with pretty good accuracy.

So there you have it.


I can say this in brief.....

Using a 12 Khz Sidewinder, tuned to one of those early, thin, white, 8", coils..........

I found this......








A mans, size 10 3/4,18Kt, wedding band.

It was laying flat.
For the record it sounded like a shallow quarter.

Also for the record, I noticed when you are crossing a target, and you drag to the right or left, until the signal gives out......
There is a rasp,... a harsh bit of audio just before you lose the signal, as the coil moves away from the target.

Until then all indications were it was a coin or other wholesome target.
Sounds like a clean fresh dropped coin, or something similar.
(but maybe, too loud, too clear, too crisp, too sharp)

"It's a pull tab"...... every time, 100%.

This using a Silver Sabre II, so a 12 Khz machine, with a current production, brown, open center, 8", coil.

Using a Bandido II, (original), a 10 Khz machine, I could not catch that bit there at the end.

12 Khz machines hit more foil on average, are more sensitive to small targets, and are a bit better on jewelry.

15 Khz raises the bar on foil finds, are even more sensitive to small targets, and do "very well" when it comes to jewelry.


This is as relevant today as the day it was written.......




So, lets see here.

* Best for silver, 2.7 Khz

Fishers 1280x comes in at 2.5 Khz and is know as a sliver magnet.
Garrett produced a 2 Khz Deep Seeker type of machine, also known as a sliver magnet.

* Most coins, including gold coins, a frequency less than 10 Khz

So like 5.5 Khz Garretts and Fishers, the 6.59 Khz White's and Teknetics, etc.
All well known finders.

* Nickels and gold jewelry, sweet spot is 16.5 Khz

Easy to believe.
Early C&G machines were 16 Khz
Garrett is married to 15 Khz
White's come in at 14 Khz
Tesoro's current production includes 14.4 Khz, 17.5 Khz, and 17.8 Khz.

* And gold nuggets, a frequency greater than 20 Khz.

Again, easy to believe
Makers are pretty on top of this one.
Fisher jumped in with the original Gold Bug at 19 Khz pretty early on.
Very successful machine and frequency.


So, you want to increase your odds of searching up a gold ring?
"Consider using a frequency that gives you an edge"



No pun intended,.... George Paine's advise,.................. is golden.





SandMan

Quote
SandMan
Using a 12 Khz Sidewinder, tuned to one of those early, thin, white, 8", coils..........

I found this......

I scurried up a picture of that Sidewinder uMax set up with the early white 8" coil.



Those headphones are Jensen Heavy Duty's built by Audiovox.
They are outdoor headphones, like for construction sites.
They are rain / weatherproof.
The speakers are Mylar, they sound very good, and block out surrounding noise real well.
A little known bargain at $25.00 - $28.00