I am about to hang up detecting.

Thanks to the local law makers who have decided that detecting on city and county owned land shouldn't be allowed. And getting permission these days on private property is hard especially after all the wonderful shows on TV of detecting showing all the spectacular staged finds landowners now think they're sitting on a gold mine. I have been detecting in the same area for 25 years. And never had the first officer to tell me detecting wasn't allowed. Now in the past two weeks I've been ran off 3 different sites that I've hunted for years. I'm just disgusted and am about to hang it up. If I don't change my mind all of my detecting stuff is going to be up for sale in the next few days. Later Morgan

88junior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks to the local law makers who have decided th
> at detecting on city and county owned land shouldn
> 't be allowed. ....

I do not equate "getting run off of 3 different sites" as being a "new law". It's possible to get a "scram" for different reasons (which would be an entirely new/different powder keg post). Nor do I construe "scrams" as constituting new law.

But assuming for a moment that you're right . That , in fact, new laws now arose that made "all city and county land off-limits" (I doubt it) What precipitated this ? Do you really think that lawmakers at those levels just one day sat down and thought "Eewww, Icky md'rs are gross and need to have laws against them" ? Or that one of them was happen-chancing past the park one day and thought "gee, let's make a law" ? What was the origin of this (assuming it's even true).

Unless you see something in print (some new law actually on the books), then no, they're not off-limits. And while there might be some various cities that dreamed something up, it is only for their park's dept. NOT "all city land". Same for counties. I defy ANYONE to show me where any city/county combination ever dreamed up something like "all public land with city and county borders". So when such laments arise, I sometimes wonder if there isn't another explanation at play.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2017 10:55PM by Tom_in_CA.

Sorry to hear this Morgan, with so many other things people have to worry about why is it that anyone minds if a person digs a hole and fills it in, perhaps finding a long lost item and returning it to the owner. In one way or another everything we dig out of the ground has a history and if we detectorist are not allowed to detect these things will either rust away or be in the ground forever. Even if I did not detect I would want those that do be able to.

I contacted the local county commissioner and he told me detecting wasn't allowed on county or city land. I only contacted him after being ran off by the local law enforcement for the 3rd time.

Message Keith Wills and ask if WWATS has any information on changes in detecting laws in your area.

Folks, If you sincerely enjoy the hobby and you care about it's secure future, then PLEASE take a moment and visit our site that "will make a difference" at www.wwats.org and become a member and dedicated to our hard work for a more secure future for our hobbies for FREE.
Thanks so much for caring.

Keith Wills, president
Keith Wills



WWATS.org

88junior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I contacted the local county commissioner and he t
> old me detecting wasn't allowed on county or city
> land. I only contacted him after being ran off by
> the local law enforcement for the 3rd time.

Sorry to break the bad news, but If ANYONE of us, in ANY city or ANY county in the whole USA went to the "county commissioner", we too might be told the same thing. Simply because they envision "geeks with shovels". Did he cite or show you chapter and verse of some actual specific new rule that truly said "no md'ing" ? I doubt it. At best (if you pushed his buttons for "proof"), he would probably cite boiler plate verbiage like "alter", or "deface" or "harvest" or "remove". And do you really think such things automatically mean "no md'ing" ? If so, I'll bet you they existed for the same 25 yrs. of md'ing you've not-been-bothered.

And the gut-instinct of so many md'rs, upon hearing a "scram", is to do exactly as you did. Rush to a bored bureaucrat to "seek clarification". And then the "pressing question" simply sets the ball in motion for some new policy, or some "safe" answer, etc... I'm wondering if your 3 bootings weren't as a result of someone else going and swatting hornets nests before you ? If so, hunt at night. So peaceful. So serene. Like nose-picking: Sometimes you need to pick more discreet times.

A friend of mine started getting booted from a certain campground (CA state owned) where he'd simply been ignored for a decade up-till then. He came to find out that a week or two preceding his booting, a newbie in the area had gone to the kiosk asking permission to metal detect. That 'pressing question' got bandied about between multiple desks, till finally someone tells him "no". Well gee, I guess the ranger on duty, the NEXT time he sees an md'r, recalls the earlier conversation and thinks "aha! there's one of *them*" . And starts booting others.

We gave the place a ... uh ... "rest" for awhile. That was 15 yrs. ago. You can go there now again and not be bothered (so long as you're not wearing neon orange or making a nuisance of yourself).

SandMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Message Keith Wills and ask if WWATS has any infor
> mation on changes in detecting laws in your area.
>

Sandman, with all due respect, and with all due respect for much-loved Keith input to our hobby: What does that website have to do with laws and the future of md'ing ? I did not click on every single sub-link/page. But it seemed to be a general purpose site. Not one specific to (or any sub-pages specific to) md'ing and legalities.

Can you give the links to the specific section you are/were referring to ?

Welcome to My World. We lost 68,000 Acres of Forest Preserves do to clowns with shovels on the other forum having group hunts 15 at a Time. Remember when I brought it up People on here bit My head off. You even mention not using a Shovel in a Park or back filling and some get pissed. Well what goes around comes around and there day will come too. Nuff said.

Well sandman and/or Keith, I think I found it. Here's the index, and from there you can click on some "legal" stuff:

[www.wwats.org]

I have only just started leafing through it. I skip the mining stuff (with all due respect for nugget/prospector venue of this hobby). And I skip as anything to do with pre-history (with all due respect for arrow heads and indian bones). I am looking for stuff that has to do with coin/relic/jewelry guys. As most of us are. And I skip the *obvious* stuff of being forbidden from tromping on historic sensitive federal monument stuff (which most of us wouldn't argue with). I'm looking for the Joe-Blow run-of-the-mill county or city parks, beaches, etc.... Ie.: the supposed fears along those lines.

And the moment I find stuff along THOSE lines, it's invariably md'rs BEING THEIR OWN WORST ENEMY. Persons with a thin skin that can't go metal detecting until they have everyone love and adore them. That can't get past that we're in an odd-ball hobby with ... uh ... "connotations". And seem to run and seek clarifications at the slightest questioning or scram. (yeah yeah, I know this is a powder-keg topic of just how obligated we are to please every-last -lookie-lou).

For example, here's some lines I lift: Some city desk-jockey emailing back to the md'r:

" Hi Keith By way of introduction my name is Ken Brown and I am the person you contacted with suggestions on how to deal with our city council who had supposedly enacted a by-law banning metal detecting in our city parks.With only the information I had read in the local newspaper stating the ban I contacted our cities legal department and had the secratary "e"mail me the 13 pages covering the by-law in question.In reading it throughly I found nowhere the mention of a metal detecting ban specifically.There was only a reference to disturbing the sod,grass,flower bed areas and other maintained areas in the parks which they felt would cover metal detecting. "

I think I'm going to get sick. Is this so typical or what ? If "disturbing the sod" equates to "no md'ing" (that we must get all up-in-arms to fight), then ALL city parks in the entire USA are off-limits. Because they ALL have such boiler plate verbiage . Sure, it's possible someone's in a city where a barney-fife applies this to the mere act of swinging a detector. Do you really think you're going to win that battle of semantics ? You'll risk making it more front & center for an actual specific ban or policy ! In fact, often-time that's the reason for the "scrams" in the first place, is persons before you went swatting hornet's nests.

Yeah yeah I know you sometimes have to give "lip service". And yeah yeah I know that if a place truly has enforcement (that goes beyond a random fluke scram), then sure, that *might* be different. Oh but if I only had a dollar for each "scram" I had in my 40 yrs. in this. And a bunch of those places (from 10, 20, or 30 yrs. ago) are places where you can go hunting now till your heart's content. We just "gave it a break" and ... well ... ya know. Sure that's no fun. Sure I wish everyone loved and adored me. But we're in an odd-ball hobby. And when it comes to manicured turf, it's gotten to where I do most of my hunting at night nowadays. So peaceful. So serene. To try to get express allowances, and assurances that "disturb" doesn't apply to us, is surely going to relegate you to very few hunt places



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2017 11:44PM by Tom_in_CA.

I can say I understand your frustration and boy it sure doesn't take long before the finger pointing starts either on what and who to blame. Everybodys gotta have something to blame. I will take a different route with it and point my finger where your problem most likely stems from.

We live in a different world now days. A world where people are spoiled little brats and grown adults will sit down in the floor and cry like a kid not getting the toy they wanted at the store. Why? Because those kids that would sit down in the floor and cry, learned quickly that they get their toy if they do that. Now, that generation is older but still behaves the same way. If they see something and don't like it, they throw a tantrum about it until it is the way they wanted it. If they don't like a show on TV...instead of turning the channel or just choosing not to watch the show, they will go all out to just get the show removed from the air. If they don't like hunting or fishing...they are all on board trying to get it banned for everybody. If the person they voted for did not get elected, they demand recounts and can't accept they lost. It's just how they are and they are the generation you have to deal with now. If they see you in the park or at the school yard doing something they don't like or approve of, they will do what they can to get it stopped....for no other reason than they just don't like you being there.

If they call enough people enough times, it wont take long before the people in power decide they have to do something about it just to shut these people up. The quickest way for them to do that is to give them what they want. They can't just say "well these other people don't like you doing that in the park". So they'll come up with some other reason why. Digging is probably going to be the go to reason in those cases...even if there was no problem with digging at all. When you get told this, you just assume that it was "someone else" that you didn't know about that caused the problem...when in reality, there might not have been anybody at all. I say this because I have ran into it at the picnic grove place I had been hunting. There are walking sidewalks around the place and pending on the time of day, the people walk it quite heavily. This is usually early of the morning and late of the evening when people are walking/jogging to avoid the heat of the day. I noticed one of those nosey ladies eyeballing me as she walked by. I could tell she didn't like me being there just by her demeanor. Did I have a shovel...no. Nothing of the sort. She just didn't like me being there. I saw her on her phone and it wasn't but about 15 mins later a city police car pulls up and the officer gets out and comes over to me. He talked to me for a few minutes and seemed to judge everything was OK. I said "It was a woman walking that called in about me wasn't it..." and he just grinned. He said dispatch told him the caller had complained that I looked suspicious to her and had some long black object in my hand and was going behind the trees and such. The detector is what I had in my hand and I was hunting around the trees. I was dressed decent...had a nice polo style shirt on and khaki colored cargo shorts...clean cut and no ball cap on; just a sweat band. Nothing to look suspicious at all...she was just a nosey old mare that didn't like me being there. I would say if I am there again and she sees me, or another one like her sees me...the same thing will happen. The officer wished me good luck and even told me of a few other parks I might try that don't get as many people around them. But I can assure you...if that happens again and again, eventually the officers are just going to start running people off until the hussies get their way.

Well what I am saying is the more You draw attention the better chance it will get closed. Come on Dude You can't take a hand full of People in a Park and start digging or just carrying a Shovel. Man that is just common sense. Or am I missing something? If I am please correct Me.
Once again this is what happened in "My area" maybe Yours is different. It was even confirmed by a Forest Preserve Cop I use to talk to when You could detect them. So it isn't finger pointing in My case. Hate when People use that as a excuse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2017 01:06AM by Harold,ILL..

Sorry Tom, I was in the middle of something.


This is a good one.....
WWats News

Legislation Alerts
Click Here


Laws on Texas Coast Beaches
Click Here

Some Great Info
Click Here


A TON OF INFO HERE


Map Links And More


There is another group,.. preserveourhobby. I can't remember..... dot org?.... dot info?

Keith and WWATS has moved mountains.
We are supposed to report any new laws or regulations to WATTS, no matter how small.

Our councils/local authorities dont allow detecting in parks and public amenities here,they get around the legalities by playing the health and safety trump card or in some cases they dont mention that you 'cannot detect' but you cannot use a digging implement or similar terminology,and of course what good is using a detector with a digger,so once again this is the reason folks dont detect parks etc.

But of course privately own land ie farmland we can detect on with the land owners permission that is,i am lucky that i do have access to a few 1000 acres that will keep me going for the rest of my natural,and some will never get done,i can fully understand the frustration of not being able too detect in parks across the pond,of course if you live in a inner city environment then i guess parks are the only place that you can detect,the biggest problem is the new media like television programmes and all these wonderful gold finds that they portray that you can find.It is only going to get much harder over the years as rookies who have just bought a detector after watching something on the television or YouTube get a big spade and go and dig up the local park and then the damage starts,leaving holes without filling them in again and this then inturn sends up the red flag too the folks who can make the decision to ban detecting in public places like parks and i can also see possible beaches being affected as well.

You will always find that in any pastime that all it takes is just a handful of folks to spoil it for the majority,then they bring in rules and regulations and try and stop it and they will for sure over time.Of course some folks will try and find loopholes in the legalities and the specific wording of new legislation but even if they do,once again over time these regulation will be fine tuned so that it closes any small loopholes.

The root of the problem is people don't like what they don't understand. And now days, they ban what they don't like or don't understand.

In most areas now, parks have a closing time or a time at night when they are locked. All of our local parks are that way and I'm just in a small rural area of nowhereville. They did that to keep nefarious activity to a minimum, as the parks were beginning to be popular night time hangouts for the thugs and common police calls for fights, prostitution, etc. What I'm getting at there, is that in a lot of places, parks aren't available at night to detect. You are limited to when the parks are open, and any time they are open, other people are ALWAYS there. You might could go in bad rainy weather to escape people but any other time, there are going to be people around. That's why they are called a public place. You can be the most cautious and careful person there is at trying to not draw attention but somebody is going to see you because people are always going to be around. I agree with not going at peak times and doing so is asking for trouble. There have been times when I wanted to hunt the tree grove and see a lot of people there and decide to go somewhere else instead.It still only takes one set of eyeballs to not like what you are doing, and can cause you trouble....as was the case in my story above. I was the only one at the whole place and there were only 3 people walking around the walking path that day; it encompasses a mile distance and nobody was around when I started hunting. The lady that called the police was just one of the three that came later, to walk the sidewalk trail. The more you try to hide, stay out of sight, etc, the more suspicious you will look to people IMO. Eventually you will get to the point where you are so paranoid about hunting, that you will just quit going all together.

Private property is and always will be my bread and butter for the best finds anyway. I am not afraid to knock on a door and talk with folks. The only thing that I don't like is when they decide to follow you around, and then are reaching into the hole grabbing stuff, etc. I understand some are curious but my gosh, give me time to get the digging tool out of the hole. I have ran into a couple along the way that I just made up some excuse to why I had to leave and never returned. lol

People can't mind their own business. I had a park worker try to run me out of a Stockton ghetto park. Basically told her to quit harassing me and do her frigging job. Kept on detecting. Also hitting public strip by road in gold rush town, local tried to run me off, that didn't work either. Gotta stand your ground.

I have never used a shovel other than in the woods detecting. In parks and yards I've always used a Lesche hand digger and I just added a Raptor 31c digger to my arsenal. I use a towel to store my dirt on till I put it back in the hole. Both diggers cut beautiful plugs. So I'm not a messy digger. I think it is just the people that run the government jobs in my area don't understand the hobby.
I know one thing I do less damage than the soccer hulligans out playing on the grass right after a drenching rain. It makes for a muddy mess. But I've never seen them ran off.

88junoir, I was not directing My comment at You. Just stateing what happened in My area as all are different.
I guess all good things come to a end. It Sucks for sure but I have to deal with it.

I know you weren't directing it at me Harold. I was just stating that I know it wasn't due to my holes that they are cutting out detecting. I think it is just someone in our local government being a butt hole. Heck you can't even water hunt in the state of Georgia in lakes and rivers due to some archaeological law they passed a while back. It's just a bunch of BS anymore detecting in my area.

Morgan, is this in Murray County?

Yeah in Murray county and my buddies that hunt in Whitfield county are encountering the same thing at schools in the county. Whitfield county has went stupid and bought a bunch of land I used to have permission to hunt and put no trespassing signs all over it and put out word that if anyone got caught on it with a metal detector they would be prosecuted. Guess where they got the money to purchase this land. From the tax payers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2017 08:54AM by 88junior.

That "disturbing the sod, grass...etc" can not be enforced. If that was the case, then no spiked shoes, or bikes or anything that would disturb the grass.

What would I do?

If it is an area that is enforced "no metal detecting" by "disturbing the sod, grass...etc", then I would invest in some spiked shoes and toss a football around on the grass, or if I had a kid, give him a play shovel and have him dig in the grass. Make sure the park maintenance people see this, video their reaction covertly. I bet they wont do anything im sure and if they don't, at that point you have an open and shut case of discrimination.

Using the law to do what is right and stop this harassment/discrimination.

88junior, you have still not let us know whether this "county commissioner" cited/showed you something that truly said "no metal detecting". Or If he was just alluding to something about "disturb" or "alter": Fine: Leave no trace . Cover your spots, fluff them up. Then presto: You haven't alterED or disturbED anything. As for a single cop who gave you a scram: Fine: avoid that one busy-body. Was it the same officer each time ? Or 3 different ones @ those 3 different times ?

If I had said "I'm giving up the hobby" each time I'd gotten a "scram" in my 40 yrs. of this, I'd have given it up dozens of times so far . And a lot of them in parks that now, you can hunt to your heart's content. D/t it was perhaps just a cop responding to a call out by a busy-body. Or a gardener having a bad hair day, etc.... I do not construe them as "law", or something that must be rushed to city or county commissioner for "clarifications" (lest it merely become codified as response to my "pressing issue").

sandman, I have had more time to look over the links you give. Searching through, I found this, regarding state of CA beaches:

Keith

The California State Parks came back with a firm negative as any codes, regulations or policy's that would prevent anyone from Metal detecting on Cal. State Beach's.
They did direct us to a few codes that would prevent anyone from damaging any beaches but they would not apply to someone who was doing minimal disturbance as is done by a detectorist and a sand scoop.

Jerry

Really ? Well gee, I know a guy who got harassed by a state-of-CA archie on one of the state beaches here . Ironically it was one of the newer beaches. That didn't even have beach access roads/trails to get to it till the 1920s. The md'r stood his ground , and an argument ensued between the archie and the md'r. The archie stormed off saying he was going to fetch LEO /rangers. After another 5 min. md'ing, the md'r began to get the willies. Decided maybe he *didn't* want to wait around to see what was going to become of it after all. Doh! So he called it a day and left. No one met him at his car, no one ever came to him, etc...

He related the story of this encounter on a CA forum. We all got a good laugh, since we *know* that you can hunt state of CA beaches here till you're blue in the face. Right ? So it would simply be a matter of looking it up and proving this guy wrong, eh ? But the more we looked into the minutia of CA state parks codes (who administer the beaches as well as the inland parks), the more we decided that .... uh .... perhaps we'd better not "make waves". Because there is admittedly verbiage about "cultural heritage". And let's be honest: You *might* find a coin older than 50 yr. old on the beach, right ? Hmmmm

IN OTHER WORDS : The "Jerry" fellow who answered Keith, in regards to CA, simply did not follow through with all the connotations to the question. I bet that if I went and asked "Jerry", being a little more forthcoming as to the implications, I bet I could fetch a "no" . Or perhaps a co-worker of Jerry, if someone else had fielded the EXACT SAME QUESTION, could have handed out a "no". On the basis of ancillary verbiage.

I'm not arguing with a "yes". But just saying: Far from "cut and dried": Sometimes these askings (and resulting conflicting answers) and "scrams" can be nothing more than whimsical, shifting, etc... So why oh why do md'rs keep making themselves a giant bullseyes ? In fact, a lot of the "scrams" can often time be nothing more THAN THE RESULT of someone prior to you going in and seeking princely blessings, thus given "safe" answers (from persons who perhaps would never have given the matter a moment's thought)

Looking further into sandman's links, check out the right hand column of this link. Where it talks about "City or County lands parks"

[www.wwats.org]

I do see that Keith says any possible prohibition is governed by whether or not there was some city ordinance to the contrary. And in order to FIND OUT if that is the case: I see that Keith advocates waltzing in to (or email or call , etc...) to each city or county parks where you intend to detect. Ie.: asking them.

Oh if I only had a dollar for each place you can read about on forum thread laments, where persons did exactly that. And fetched "no's" at places where ... quite frankly ... it had never been a problem prior to that (assuming some Ps and Qs followed). And if you try to say: "Where is that written?" (as if to put the burden of proof on them to cite any such law), then presto: They point you to "alter" or "deface", or "harvest" or "remove", etc... And do you really think you're going to win that semantics debate ? And then worse yet, guess what shows up at the next council meeting as a proposed new rule for city parks ? Aaarrgggg

Why doesn't Keith tell the md'rs to look up rules for themselves ? Surely city park rules, muni codes, etc... are available somewhere for public viewing ? Why subject oneself to the psychology of "no one cared UNTIL you asked" ? The mere fact of asking, simply casts aspursions on your activity, as if it were harmful, dangerous, etc... . I mean, NO ONE "asks" if they can do innocuous harmless activities, right ? (fly kites, etc...) Thus when you're standing there in front of them seeking their confirmations, the implication is that something is amiss (lest why else would you be there asking, if it were innocuous and harmless?)

I changed my approach to people who are walking, driving, riding, etc., by me while I am metal detecting. I used to ignore them, turn away from them and felt like I was being watched and/or judged. "Just leave me alone" was
my attitude. I would purposely hunt area away from people.

But now I engage them. I wave to them. I stop and walk over and say hello to them. I introduce myself and where I live.
I talk about my hobby and how the history of the area is interesting.
I talk about the metal detector and its capabilities.
I mention the club I belong to and how we are trying to save history by recovering items lost by the people who settle here during the pioneer times.
I mention the people I have helped find lost items for them without charge.
I ask them if they have lost anything and that I'd be happy to come look for it. I give them my business card with name and phone number.
I ask them if they have ever metal detected or know anyone else that does.
I explain the excitement of metal detecting as being similar to fishing, but done in the ground. It's about the hunting/fishing not about the finds/fish.
Anyway, you get the idea.

It's interesting to see the peoples reactions. Most are actually interested in what you are doing.
You may get some leads and/or permissions doing this, as well.

Hello, came here. To Europe. This is big prison camp for citizens. We have freedom but nothing is allowed. Battlefield? We have too.

And still working, with Police, angry farmers with agricultural weapons in hands, stupid officials, or primitive not educate society. Do you want to swap?

Tom he didn't show me it on paper. He just told me that verbally.

A buddy and I were "assaulted" one day by a guy telling us we were on private property. He was shouting obscenities and calling us names, demanding that we leave. He threatened to call the cops. My friend is a MD dealer. He didn't want to make waves. I demanded to know what right this jerk had to kick us off of this property as there we no "NO Trespassing" signs,etc. He got in my face and said that "he was the sign" and that it was his property. I told him that I doubted that. Long story short...We left.I should have called the police! My neighbor is a sheriff's deputy and when I told him about it he stated that I should have called the Sheriff's Dept and made a complaint of harassment. No signs posted, no fence, other people walking across the lot=Not trespassing! Iv'e had the police called on me only a few times (just like Daniel's experience) and it has always ended friendly with the officer wishing me luck. I don't do covert in public places. Being sneaky makes you look sneaky... and suspicious. I don't carry a shovel, I dress nice, smile, wave, say hello. I'm with Tom_in_CA, there are very few "laws" directed against MDing.

My bigger concern is detecting in camp grounds, picnic areas, swimming holes,etc...on National Forrest Lands. The FS is out of control. Has anybody had any problems with the FS? I believe that you can run in to trouble with the whole "Heritage and Antiquities Acts" thing if you have recovered anything over 50 years old on you(?). I KNOW that electronic prospecting for gold and meteorites is allowed and I do a lot of it but I have always been wary of the FS. Am I being paranoid? Iv'e always wondered where the YouTube "celebrities" do all of this cellar hole hunting. Certainly not all on private property. Sometimes they claim to have walked a couple of hours in to the site...can't be on private property. Some even have quads ride up on them while hunting...not private. State land or does the FS not enforce?

Dean

I know what park your talking about (wino park), do you think it would be worth testing the Impact there? It's a trashy as they come with screw caps and tabs

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People can't mind their own business. I had a park
> worker try to run me out of a Stockton ghetto park
> . Basically told her to quit harassing me and do h
> er frigging job. Kept on detecting. Also hitting
> public strip by road in gold rush town, local trie
> d to run me off, that didn't work either. Gotta st
> and your ground.

88junior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom he didn't show me it on paper. He just told me
> that verbally.


Then if you want to hunt that city's parks more: If I were you, I'd look up in city muni and park codes for myself.

Just because a city or county pencil pusher says "no", doesn't mean there was necessarily a specific "no metal detectors" law / rule. He might have been thinking of ancillary verbiage . Like "alter", "deface", "harvest", etc.... Yes I would agree that we would loose a debate of semantics as to whether or not those necessarily mean "no detecting". Thus the less we put that on the desk of officials (so that their imagination jumps to "geeks with shovels"), the better. In other words, there are SCORES of places where a "county commissioner" could give a whimsical "no" like this (when no specific rule exists). Yet you'd find that md'ing is common-place there, so long as you're not being a nuisance or sticking out like a sore thumb.

As for the "scrams" you got, that's a little more tricky. Because, yeah, you'd have to give lip service. But if it were me, I'd just give that park a rest, and come back later at lower-traffic times (you lost your boyscout ring there after all, right ?) Was it the same cop at all 3 scrams ? I can think of city's where scrams from cops or gardener's occurred (yes, sometimes even several times). Yet they were short-lived flukes. We just lay-low awhile, and .... 6 months later (at more ... uh ... opportune times), nothing ever became of it.

Every situation is different. And sure, there are some that are truly enforced ancillary language where you can't avoid a "lone griper".