PIs

Im looking to buy a water machine soon. I know what a disc machine gives me in and out of the water based on location. Now what does a PI offer over that except depth. Do some have more than a single tone? Now the big question.... which PI do you like best and why over a disc machine? Infinium has always been mentioned as a versatile machine.... yes i never see a used on for sale or hear much about anyone using one on any of the forums. Whats the difference between a PI and a Dual Field PI? Friends are telling me the Whites DF is a good choice.

Dew

Most folks I talk with ( I have no experience with a P.I. machine ) mention the ease of use , and the depth gotten from the Dual Field PI .......The one shortcoming mentioned is a coil that wants to come up and float but can be weighted ..... Other machines mentioned that are suppose to have some sort of dicrimination do not have true discriminination ..... I have been tempted in teh past to give a PI machine a try just to check out the technology , but there is too much trash on the beaches that I frequent ..... If I were to give one a try , I think I would probably go with a Dual Field PI ...Jim

If only you could test-drive a PI. There's a good reason why.

And if you could try a White's TDI.

Dew,

I have used a bunch of different PI's over the years. Bottom line is, a PI will not be effected by ground mineralization or salt water as much as a VLF unit to the point where it can be very advantageous. It will go deeper, but it will also pick up a lot more junk due to not having a discrimination circuit like VLF machines.

If you are going to hunt salt water beaches, there are several water proof PI units that are simple in design and have some more features that others. Most have a pulse delay adjustment that can adjust for the conditions. Others have in addition to that feature, a gain adjustment. One of the common things with most all waterproof PI's on the market is they do not have to be ground balanced.This makes it them simple to operate.

The better waterproof models on the market include the Whites Dual Field ( named dual field due to the coil design...and this model has a gain adjustment), Whites Surf PI Pro, Detector Pro HH PI, Tesoro Sand Shark and Garrett Sea Hunter. The HH PI and Sea Hunter have the ability to change coils...the others have the coils hard wired in ( I believe the new Sand Shark models do not have the ability to change coils any longer).

The Garrett Infinium is a different animal. I use this model the most hunting here in NJ, as it has done well for me. The reason why this PI is different is that it was designed to be a gold prospecting unit, and because of that, it has to be tuned for the salt water. Most water proof beach PI's have the salt water tuned out...the Infinium does not. This can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it. The good is, because you can run it hot, it will be more sensitive to small gold. Some small gold is in the same range as salt water, and if that range has been eliminated to make the unit run more stable ( like most of the waterproof PI's out there), they will not be as sensitive to small gold as the Infinium. The bad is, the conductivity in the salt water can make the unit unstable, and you have to make sure you run through the ground balance procedure as well as adjust the discrimination adjustment and threshold to ensure stablitity. It can also signal when waves rush over the coil if you have it running too hot.


The Infinium also has to be ground balanced, the others do not. One other neat feature is that it has tone ID in that lower conductive targets ( gold, aluminum, tabs) in addition to some iron targets, produce a hi/lo sound. High conductive targets
(silver, clad) as well as some iron, produce a lo/hi sound. The main trick with the Infinium is adjusting it to run smoothly in the surf or wet sand. This takes some practice and patience. It is also a sensitive and sometimes 'chatty' unit, but it goes super deep on gold targets. The Infinium also can swap out coils.

If this will be your first go round with a PI, I would say the Infinium may not be the one to start off with. If you do take that leap, be prepared to learn it and once you do, you will find it's a fantastic PI. One other caveat with a PI...in trashy spots, its advantage is somewhat lost because you will be digging every little piece of iron, wire, rivets, etc.

Thanks Tom and others that posted. Thanks Rover... especially for the info on the infinium. Im used the DFX and SE so i dont mind a challenge. Im seriously looking at the Whites Dual Field.... but the infinium still has me curious. Im not one who buys a machine and puts it in the closet.... trust me what ever i get ill use the paint off it. Tom i assume you are talking about how frustrating it might be to dig LOTS of trash with a PI on a trashy beach. Ill have to do MORE reading obviously. I have a friend or two on the Gulf side that waters hunts... but use the Xcal and CZ. So ill have to do a little digging with them.... then try a PI for comparison. Thanks again for all the replies.

Dew

Just curious TheRover61, do different mfg's PI's interfere with each other if in close proximity to each other, like VLF's?

Terra...good question. I honestly don't know.

I have 4 PI units, and I am going to try and see. Two of them ( Whites TDI and Garrett Infinium) have frequency adjust knobs so they may be able to tune out each other. The other two ( Goldquest SS V2 and Detector Pro HH PI) do not, so I am going to see how they react when I turn on the others.

When I am out hunting with my partners, I am the only one who uses a PI, and I am usually 50+ feet away from them, and when I do walk up to them to see what's happening or to talk to them, I turn my unit off, so not even sure if their VLF's react to my PI in an adverse way when close by.

Will do some experimenting over the weekend in my test garden with the PI's and see if there is any depth loss or adverse reactions with the units when others are turned on close by.

JC

Well hand held pin pointers sure can affect them..... arent they PIs? Id like the hear about the Whites DF if anyone has info.

Dew

Yes, PI's can interfere with other PI's. And a PI can certainly interfere with VLF units.

"If only you could test-drive a PI. There's a good reason why.

And if you could try a White's TDI."


Hi Tom,
I don't understand this comment .....Please explain ...Thanks, Jim

Hi Dew: I own an Infinium LS. I agree with Rover. The Infinium is probably your best choice because you will dig less trash. This is because the Infinium has discrimination, the rest of the PI's do not, as far as I know. Pls correct me if I am wrong about this. I must confess, I have never found any gold jewelry at the beach (yet), but this is mostly because I hunt on extremely hunted beaches, for the most part. I had an Excal, but I like the Infinium better. I found the Excals meter to be useless. I have found a lot of bobby pins at the beach. Some say that they can tell a bobby pin by its signal, but I think they are dreaming. I'm not going to trade my Infinium. Oh, by the way, the Infinium is excellent for hunting placer gold as well. Best wishes....

Thanks Kevin... good info. I saw it was a gold machine as well. Sounds a little more complicated to get correct in a salty situation, but may be worth it. I didnt want to appear stupid Jim, but i do wish Tom could explain a little further. Thanks Dew

The White's TDI is one of the better ones on the open market. IF....you found that you liked the TYPE of hunting that a P.I. can produce......the TDI should be a good learning platform.

I would NEVER recommend a P.I. to a beginner........and hardly recommend it to anyone..........for that matter. As far as beach hunting........the learning curve is steep............not so much with the PI unit; rather, with the 'when', the 'where', and the 'why' to hunt. I should create a video (DVD) on this exact subject matter. It would clarify the unsuspecting nightmares of PI hunting.............BUT............would teach the major advantages of a PI..............once the 'nightmare' understanding was 'cleared/resolved'.

Tom,

I could not agree more. The when/why/where to use a PI has to do with one major thing...CONDITIONS.

If one is hunting in the salt water ( ie. knee-neck deep or diving) at PI would be the choice. There isn't much trash once you get out into the water and targets are sparse to begin with so a dig all approach is pretty common.

Sanded in beaches, beaches with very little iron, beaches where there are cuts/troughs were the potential for gold exists, would also be good conditions but then one has to weigh the trash to treasure ratio. There are times when a PI can't be used just for the sheer fact there are tons of nails, wire, etc. that would slow one to a crawl digging everything. Not prudent in those situations.

Once a person gets used to their PI, shallow iron can be distinguished from other targets, but deep iron always gets me. But if there is just too much shallow iron, I don't use my PI's and the VLF's come out. Hunting for me has to be fun first and foremost. If I start cursing under my breath digging another great sounding nail, washer, bobby pin, etc. then it's time for me to switch to my CZ or DFX ( or newly aquired E-Trac !) if wet sanding. I won't let my PI's make me crazy !

Some of the great things about the Infinium when it comes to beach hunting are:

1)Waterproof...can't say enough about that when it comes to salt water beach hunting.

2) Although there is a greater learning curve due to one having to tune it, the Infinium does not have salt water tuned out, so the unit can be tuned to the salinity of the water and run 'hot' if one wants to. It may react to the salt water when set at the 'borderline' on tuning, but it will find small gold where other units will not be able to. One just has to get used to the sounds of REPEATABLE tone ID vs. the chatter. The secret there is to SLOW DOWN, sweep from all angles, and dig if the tone ID is repeatable.

3) The tone Id can be used to an advantage because one can dig hi/lo signals only if concentrating on gold/nickels. Or lo/hi for clad. Only downside is iron comes in at both hi/lo and lo/hi.

4) The tone Id can also be used to tell deep/small targets as opposed to false signals or chatter because (like stated earlier) the tone ID signal will repeat when sweeping from different angles, where a false may only hit one way, or go away altogether and only the threshold would be heard. This is really a key point to the machine because when there is rough surf or windy conditions and it gets hard to hear the faint threshold changes due to a target, the tone ID helps a lot ( at least for me it does).

5) It is a gold detector first and foremost...hence it hits on gold ( and nickels) very well.

6) Interchangable coils....the 10x14 mono is a MUST for beach hunting. Actually, that is all I use on mine.

I would love to see a new video/article explaining the optimal beach conditions for using a PI.

Yes, good points.

I looked at the TDI... great machine, but its not waterproof is it? Im looking for something that can get wet. Infinium looking pretty good. You are a pretty good salesman Rover.

Dew

As I say, I really like my Infinium LS. It is easy to use at the beach, but only with the double D coil. The 14" mono doesn't work at all at the beach. Writing of coils, the only real drawback to the Infinium is that Garrett doesn't offer any larger DD coils for it. I don't know why. Fisher just introduced a 15" DD coil that you can use at the beach. Of course, this set up will cost you about twice as much as an Infinium.

Dew,

The major advantage the Garrett Infinium and Sea Hunter, Whites Dual Field and Surf PI Pro, Tesoro Sand Shark and Detector Pro HH PI have is this....

THEY ARE WATERPROOF !

I am always leery using my TDI at the beach. It is a great machine for sure, but nope....not waterproof.

Anytime you go hunting in a salt water environment, it is always good to know that when using a water proof machine, you can hose it down when you get home and get all the salt water and sand off of it. You also don't have to worry about the salt air either.

Tom,
Thanks for the explanation ......Jim

JC,
Thanks for the run down on the P.I. adventure ......My beaches would have me in the nut house after listening to a P.I. !!....LOL !!......I would turn into a statue standing in one spot for the rest of my life that beaches are so trashy by me !!....Jim