What IS with this (replacement) Garrett coil thing????

Does anybody know?-----There is yet another report of an individual getting a DIFFERENT "marked up" coil back with his AT PRO that was sent in for the "fix".------What are they doing--taking coils off of one guys machine & putting it on another persons AT PRO?-------I've had a couple of bad coils on earlier FT machines that I've had to send in and when I got them back, they were spankin new coils (the way it should be).------When a person buys a NEW detector and it has to be sent in (under warranty) for coil replacement---It should at least come back with a new coil, right????-----I must be missing something here, I can't figure that one out.-----Whattcha think?-----------Del

Garrett may not have enough components to build 'new' coils so they rework what they can get. They made a call: ship what you can or make the customer wait.

No brainer.

At-Pro coil's.....If I were betting I would think they have to remove the connector and solder the shield to the connector...then go inside the detector and solder a ground lug from the connector to the Board to complete the circuit...

I believe the coils were never properly grounded....

Probably what happened is the first couple of batches where soldered wrong without the shield completing the circuit...

Now when they get them back They don't have no new coils made up so they take your's and repair the connector and you get the guy's that came in last week...the first few back would of got the new one's but after that they get swamped and just repair for lack of new ones being built right now....they probably build batches and havent tooled up for another batch yet...

And to be honest the coils for the most part are fine just scratched from maybe 6 weeks of use so instead of trashing a perfectly good coil they replace the connector..I would bet they would not send you one that is chipped or cracked but I bet they will send some blemished one's...Can you Imagine what it is costing them??

Bet they wont make that mistake again... mistake's can be costly...

Could be as simple as that style connector is on the infinium also and it is wired different from the At-Pro so the people in the connector department see a underwater connector and simply wire it like the infinium not really knowing no better...



Just my take but I would bet it's extremely simple...


Keith

My machine was one of the first to go back .......It came back with a new coil on it as there were no others to choose from at the time .....I got lucky to get mine in early ....No cost to me !!...... Not more than 2 weeks later , Garrett was already flooded with repairs to do ......The proverbial cat was out of the bag ....
Even the closet coilers hustled to get their machines in ...... I can't even imagine how many machines were effected ....Someone on another forum asked the question of how many people got an AT Pro that was OK with the early units ......It didn't look like many folks responded !!.....OUCH !!.....Jim

Keith-----You are probably right in what you say.----What ever the issue was/is--my next question---Where does QUALITY CONTROL come into play with Garrett?-----How in the world could they release this many units without "catching" something like this?-----I had one dealer tell me that there are MANY "problem" AT PRO's on dealers shelves right now (from the earlier run(s).----Who knows the number that went out (except maybe Garrett).-----These returned coils don't seem to be nicked, etc.--just show some light signs of scratches, etc. (according to reports).-----Then there have been a report or two stating that the returned unit was STILL erratic.---Now how can/why should this be???---Poor repair service?---Or just the "law of averages" on repair work?----I think one guy said he was sending his in for a 3rd trip to the factory.------Seems like the ones coming out now are "OK", I hope they ALL are.----------Del

No really....they have there self in a tight Pickle right now down at Garrett....

They are trying to play catch up and at the same time keep it as low key as they can...They have a rep to up keep..And how would you like to sink all of your time and work into something then it is not quite right upon release to the world ...

Garrett is learning like those before them had to.....If you are going to build a world class machine you better expect more than a casual hobbyist to use it....They get the technology right but the people putting them together on the floor are oblivious to the type machine it is and most of them could care less it's just a job to put food on the table...

Also it's a new platform and a new direction for Garrett....High powered machines are harder to get right ...Low powered machine probably would not false the coil anyway even if it was wired wrong...

I still applaud Garrett for there detector...it has a lot of technology in it...... It is the pinnacle of there 40 years of design ....They just have to start to realize that in the direction they want to go there's no room for error ...Or they will be scrutinized ...They have never faced that before on a large scale....

Another sad thing is alot of people would of accepted it like it was and left it at that... never getting to use a truly unique machine to it's full potential..


One thing is the ruggedness of it is excellent the price is great and the Audio is another world.....let them iron some of the kink's out...and hopefully they will build off it for future design's

and get competitive...

I am not brand loyal myself ...and really dont like to get caught up in name calling and politics...I just like to detect and use cutting edge equipment no matter who build's it...

I am a little biased towards American Manufacturing... What do you think those fabulous Bulgarian Machine's have for Quality Control????

My Patriotic pride want's any American Manufacturer to succeed .....

Good point's you have brought up Del

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2011 06:15AM by Keith Southern.

My patriotic pride wants NASA, the United States and everything in it to succeed also

And even though I don't own a AT Pro...again..........a big thanks to all those who brought the detector's issues to the light of day....ya know who you are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2011 06:59AM by TerraDigger.

TerraDigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My patriotic pride wants NASA, the United States
> and everything in it to succeed also
>
> And even though I don't own a AT
> Pro...again..........a big thanks to all those who
> brought the detector's issues to the light of
> day....ya know who you are.

Amen to that!!----You guys took a lot of "heat" on this thing.----The Garrett group OUGHT TO appreciate you and WE SURELY DO appreciate you!---------Del

I think what Keith mentioned about building higher end detectors holds a lot of relivance to the issue at hand .....Higher end electronics are more finicky and need more care when leaving the factory ..... When you have a machine that is head and shoulders above what you have built in the past , and a revolutionary machine that "Does it all " at a price point that this machine was brought out at , you better be raady for a whole new clientel !!..... There was very little being witnessed , about this machine on it's release ....The way things were written were written to protect the company ....The word " SALT " was NEVER mentioned in the beginning ...Other buzz words like "Beach" or "Waves " or "Sand " and "Waterproof " were mentioned to give an illusion for the buying to EXPECT a great running machine at a salty sand beach !!......I can tell you that if I had a machine that did all that and a bag of chips , before the release date , the net would have all KINDS of reports about my machine ...... Brand loyalists were fighting non brand loyalists over whether it was meant for SALT beaches .....You really had to read between the lines on the innitial statements being made .....Those of us that KNEW what the end reusult would probably be with a single frequency machine in salt had our doubts as from designs we saw in the past ..... This was the BEST machine that the Garrett loyalists had come around the pike in ages , and they were defending it tooth and nail !!..... Now a deadline had to met ....Christmas was on us , and prime time to come out with a machine if you wanted to get in on the Christmas buying frenzy , so it was released ....... I think that because there were other machines ont he market that would false when the sensitivity was turned up , it was very easy to just say " This is how the machine runs becuase it's sensitive " ........" There are many other machines on the market that run the same way " ....... Again , if you want to beileve this , fine .....You go along your merry way with a falsing machine that STILL FINDS TARGETS DEEP !!!!...... When I posted my Movie , I was not trying to hurt anyone ....I wanted to get to the bottom of why my machine was so noisy ....... I was told it was normal .....Then I get replies from others that said that there machine did NOT do what my machine was doing !!!......RIGHT THERE I knew that there were some good machines, and some bad machines, and I also knew that there were a LOT of people who were told that this was normal operation when their machine falsed !!.....NOW we have a problem ..... If they were ALL like this , I would have to accept the fact that THIS is how this machine runs , but if there are machines out there that run quietly, then I have a bad machine ......Now it was time to get the company to admit that there was a problem .....They woudn't !!!.....Too many detectors went out the door .....Say NOTHING !!....It will go away !!......IT DIDN"T ..... I think that there were many back in the day from the same type of growing up ....My father also said " Believe 1/2 of what you see, and NONE of what you hear " ....... That is another saying that sticks in my head as I go thru life just like Keith ....... Thank GOD Keith and others came along with video's and wanting some answers ...... I knew that the only way to get the word around was to spread my findings around .....They met with a lot of opposition .... I expected this as I could see from the beginning that there were a lot of brand loyalists that didn't have a CLUE what was going on, and were more into a MOB mentality than getting anything accomplished in a positive manor ... Topics would come up and people with power on that forum were giving information about hunting that was totally FALSE !!!.....When corrected , everything went silent !!...... Enough people that had other brand machines that really KNEW what they were talking about filtered in and if it were not for that , this dilema probably would have NEVER come to light !!..... Here's another one " You can fool some of the people some of the time ,but you can't fool all of the people all of the time !!" ...... Reading other works from Tom D , and finding that on his forum ( this forum ) that he mentioned other machines reacting the same way the AT Pro did , and what the problem was , made complete sense to me .......One problem .....At that time I could NOT get onto this forum .....There was a problem with bringing on new members and it was a holiday !!!.......Now I was chomping at the bit because FINALLY someone with stature in this business see's what I see !!!....... I got onto this forum shortly after being booted from the other forum .....AHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......A SIGH OF RELIEF !!!...... Freedom of Speech !!!......Knowledgeable people !!!....... People with discussion skills !!...... I was home !!!..... When Keith mentioned that the 2nd batch of detectors were coming out WITHOUT the problem , I was hopeful , and when I got my machine back , I knew that this problem was fixed at least for me .....I had no idea at the time that there were so many other people affected ..... Many thought that what they had was NORMAL because that is what they were lead to believe ..... The important thing is that this was fixed , and maybe not completely ( until we hear from Tom ) but it's surely a LOT MORE HUNTABLE !!.... It's already a great running machine , and it would be down right scary if this machine ran too much better than it already does for the price ..... It doesn't have me selling off my ML machines , but it has me using iit a lot more than any of my other machines right now !!.... Jim

The unfortunate thing about this AT Pro coil snafu, is that I've read far more about it online then how well the detector does or does not perform!

Could you guys with fixed units get to work and start postings some finds already - lol

Some clad, some Silver ....Some new , some old !!.....43 Silver 1/2 ......Barber Quarter ......Merc dimes , Buffalo's , Wheats .......A good mix !!.....Jim



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2011 08:39PM by synthnut.

I am one who got a reworked coil because I'm the one who posted my coil wire looks to be pinched or has a slight nick in the coil wire about an inch up from where the coil wire goes into the coil itself, My coil nut that secures the coil cable to the control box also has plier marks on it. Mine also still falses slightly when held in the air and rotated gently with the wrist, but seems stable when swinging now and even gently tapping the coil it seems stable but I have yet to get out and use it due to the weather. So I'm hoping the slight falsing I'm getting now is a form of EMI and I hope I still don't have a problem I guess I will know more when I get to hunt with it. I did make the comment what if I were to not like it or not grasp the audio and were to try and sell it, would anybody seeing the marks on the nut and cable marred/pinched believe the detector has not been used other than air tests and a quick check in the yard, and would I get top dollar for it with these marks. I like everyone else paid for a new detector and now have one that looks as though it's seen several hours use even though it hasn't. I'm happy Garrett is taking care of the problem and in a timely fashion but not to tickled with the manor in which things are being done. I guess the Texas twister tool gift is Garretts way of telling us to take care of further repairs on our own, I know a bad joke but I have to laugh it beats thinking about the headache we all have endured over this. I sure hope it's worth it all in the end cause it's all I got right now.

synthnut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [i63.photobucket.com]
> ProHuntcopy.jpg
>
>
> [i63.photobucket.com]
> Beach.jpg
>
>
> Some clad, some Silver ....Some new , some old
> !!.....43 Silver 1/2 ......Barber Quarter
> ......Merc dimes , Buffalo's , Wheats .......A
> good mix !!.....Jim


Ahhh... I like, I like! This looks like beach digs, are you hunting salt water beaches with the AT ?

Yes , Saltwater beaches !!......Some dry sand that was scraped down by a bulldozer ....Caught it just right ...It was like going back in time ......Wheats and Buffalo's and Merc's were the norm ....It was hard to find a Memorial in the bunch for a change !!..... Very exciting days those hunts ..... The AT will hunt wet salt on SOME beaches , but others it will not G.B. at all ..... I have decided to use the AT Pro on dry sand as it's fast and ID's very well and goes DEEP in sand !!....Not sure how well it's gonna do in dirt yet ....Waiting for things to dry up a little around here .....VERY wet and muddy now .....Jim

Very good thread. This is the true definition of 'constructive anger thoughts'...........and very constructive it is. When 'frustration' can be vented into corrective-accomplishment.......it is VERY 'constructive'.

And yes, good point Jim. WHAT IF the coil problem is fixed.............but there still lies a problem(s)..............whereby the detector could perform EVEN BETTER!!!!!!.......and we can not (do not know)... that it could be corrected/advanced further........because we do not have a 'base-platform' unto which to 'compare'...............nor is it 'evident'....because it is performing quite well....even whilst comparing to other units...or comparing to todays standards. !!

Have you brought these marks/nicks to Garretts attention? And if they are willing to rectify these issues, I would recommend that you ask them to supply you with a pre-paid shipping label. On their dime.

As sensitive as everyone makes the AT Pro out to be , I have NEVER been able to run ANY machine other than my brothers Silver uMax out to full sensitivity without the detector making a BUNCH of noise ...... I cannot run ANY of my ML machines at full sensitivity !!..... I CAN run my AT PRO at full sensitivity in the dry sand WITHOUT hearing a lot of noise !!..... A couple crackles and pops , but nothing to write home about ......I think that the AT Pro can be run even HOTTER than what it is run at now , and I think that it can be tuned much HOTTER and go deeper ..... There are too many people who would try to run this machine sky high in the salt and black sand and would not know what they are doing , and would cause too much of a problem for Garrett ..... It's tuned just hot enough now to be a good performer and hot enough to make people VERY happy !!..... I'd be willing to bet that with the coil now fixed ( they can call it what they want , I don't care ) that they could run this machine hot enough to make an E Trac blush !!!...... I'm dead serious when I say this ..... and if someone like SunRay could make a serious 6" coil for this machine that could acheive some depth while giving great seperation like their S-5 or S-8 coil , this little AT Pro would be a force to reckon with !!..... I don't think that this processor is wrung out yet !!..... This might be wishful thinking on my part , but I think that this machine was tamed down because of the problem with the coil , and now that the coil is fixed , it runs as quiet as a mouse in MANY area's by me !!..... Call me crazy , but this are my thoughts .....Jim

TerraDigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you brought these marks/nicks to Garretts
> attention? And if they are willing to rectify
> these issues, I would recommend that you ask them
> to supply you with a pre-paid shipping label. On
> their dime.

Yes I called Garrett and told them about it, I told them I was a little worried about moisture getting in to the coil wires, I was told to soak my coil in the sink or tub overnight. I was then told that if moisture was getting into the wires that the machine would be totally erratic like an overload signal or severe EMI. I was then told if this was the case they would send out a new coil, I mentioned that I bought a new detector and through no fault of mine had the falsing issue and now the coil and coil wire and nut was marred and if I were to sell it I wouldn't get a good price because it looks well used now, to which I was told there was nothing they could do if it wasn't faulty and all units were checked before they were shipped back to the customer from their repair dept. and were found to be within normal working guidelines. If I wished I could purchase a new coil at a discounted rate for my trouble and to make me happy. I replied I wasn't spending anymore as I already had bought the machine new and paid shipping for the falsing repair and thanks for their time.

That's as professional a answer as if a mechanic put a ding in my vehicle while working on it, and then telling me to start the vehicle, and if it runs, there is no problem.

Sometimes these companies never cease to amaze me.

Oh, and they check the machines before they leave the factory, like they did with the (falsing/it's normal for the machine to do that) AT Pro's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2011 05:26AM by TerraDigger.

I know your post is pertaining more to the "what could be" than the "what is" but the reality of any comparison is that it only pertains to the particular examples of the detectors the tester has at the time of the test. Given that, all I can and will say is that the AT I have doesn't come close to making the E-Trac I have "blush". Also and only speculatively speaking, the theoretical additional sensitivity "headspace" that could be dialed into the AT I have, still would not be enough to induce any blushing by the ET I have. I'm not saying the AT is junk by any means, nor am I saying the ET walks on water,......just that THIS $600 detector won't perform on par with THIS $1500 detector. If other folks can come to a different conclusion with the two examples they have to work with, and they're being honest and objective instead of emotional, so be it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2011 01:10PM by BuckeyeBrad.

I was seriously considering purchasing an AT Pro up until I read this thread.
I am a design engineer and am often involved in the assembly and repair of the machines I design. With this in mind I understand that things can go wrong in the early stages of a products life cycle, and that "parts swapping" during the repair process is sometimes necessary. However, there is no excuse for returning a product to a customer in worse shape than it was in when it came back for repair. Whether the damage is cosmetic, mechanical or electronic, the item should look as good or better than it did when it came in and function flawlessly before it is returned to the customer.
If faced with the dilemma of sending out refurbished parts that do not look new or making the customer wait until new parts become available, the best best recourse, in my experience, is to do the following:
1. Apologize to the customer.
2. Explain the situation in detail to the customer and let them decide which course of action they want to pursue.
3. Apologize to the customer again and offer some form of compensation for their inconvenience, i.e. covering the shipping charges, etc.

Returning the product in substandard condition without an explanation is akin to breaking your mom's favorite vase then gluing it back together and praying that she doesn't notice so you won't catch a beating.
I have been dealing with this type of situation for years and have found that if you are honest and take responsibility for the problem, most people will respond in a reasonable manner and you might just earn a repeat customer instead of losing a future customer in this case me.

But then again, what do I know...........

The problem I see with the AT, as far as I am concerned is the lack
of a good small DD.
Since most of my detecting is in nail rich areas, like where I can't move
a 5" coil without being over at least one nail.
Heck, I can choose from a dozen detectors for the wide open spaces.

If your name wasn't attached to your post......I would think it was something I wrote....lol

1. Apologize to the customer. (Shows respect & appreciation)
2. Explain the situation in detail to the customer and let them decide which course of action they want to pursue. (Establishes honesty & trust)
3. Apologize to the customer again and offer some form of compensation for their inconvenience, i.e. covering the shipping charges, etc. (Retains Cust.)

I truly hope your employer appreciates having a employee with your philosophy. Too many today do not. It's good for companys in the long run to practice what you espouse. White's Electronics follows this philosophy as closely as I have seen any detector company do. And they retain a sizeable portion of their customer base soley for the reason that the customer knows they will be well taken care of after the sale. Even to the point that a customer will choose one of their detectors over a competitors that may offer better performance. It's not always cutting edge technology that generates a profitable business.

Neugene,
VERY WELL PUT !!!....... That hits the nail on the head , at least the way I view it ..... I would have had a lot of respect for a company that handled things like this ......... After seeing how this entire scenario played out , and even now , the customer was blamed for the problems that the AT Pro encountered , I don't think that I could trust this company again for pruchases in the future ...... One of the reasons I gave the AT Pro a shot was because I knew that the company had a good reputation and that if push came to shove that they would fix their detector since they were the ones who built it ...... I'm grateful that my machine was fixed , but am less than happy how things played out throughout the entire process ..... Begrudgingly fixing a product after passing the buck to the customer , and making comments to the effect that if the customer knew how to run a machine like this , there would have been no problem , leaves me wondering if they think that eveyone that buys their detectors are idiots !!!....... Rather than coming clean with what the REAL problem was , it was easier,or safer, to pass the situation off on someone else ..... They may have fooled some of thier customers, but they surely lost a few in the process !!......and at their expense !!...... I think too that perhaps some of these companies shoud understand that we are all human, and we CAN handle the TRUTH , and we all know that Sh ____ Happens !!...... HONESTY is STILL the best policy !!.....Jim