Minelab FBS Detectors

Does Anyone know if the Full Band Spectrum Minelabs achieve the same approximate depth? Is the difference in price between the Safari, E-TRAC, and Explorer SE Pro because of the added features and adjustments to the basic FBS platform, or is there a significant depth difference as well?

There is no significant depth difference.

Price difference has a lot to do with software and adjustments.

BTW. Trustworthy sources tell me there is a new minelab being tested in Ireland at this moment. No idea what it is but since it is tested there the chance it is a coin/relic detector is good.

And they really need a new top of the line machine at the moment to grab some back from XP and First Texas.

and the beat goes on!
hopin' you won't have to "float" a second mortgage
on the house to buy it!..just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

You maybe right.

Lets hope its within normal dollars.

They are expensive as it is with no groundbalance control, no all metal mode and not a true treshold. I feel handicapped without them so it need to be there in the next one.

I dont know.... they are still selling the heck out of Etrac's. I thought they moved all their operations out of Ireland? More expensive..... thats what we have all be waiting for. Id like to see them get into the PI and see what they could do with one.

Dew

Isn't the GPX series PI machines?

Can someone help me understand a few things --

1. How a machine with "no user-adjustable ground balance" can do such a good job, when folks with user-ground-balanceable machines SWEAR by the need to keep it properly balanced? If that is so important, how does an FBS machine get away with some "fixed" setting?

2. What is meant by the statement above by frnifo when saying that FBS machines do not have "true threshold" or "all metal mode." Why is my SE Pro's threshold not a "true" threshold, and why is running an "open screen" with no disc not considered "all metals mode?" I'm not disagreeing, just trying to understand, as I would have said (perhaps incorrectly) that my machine does have an "all metal mode," and wouldn't have known that its threshold is in any way different from whatever a "true" threshold is...

Steve

Without getting into the technical aspects Minelab makes some pricey fine units and their lower end units generally go just as deep just don't have all the bells and whistles. Speaking from experience as been on both ends of the fence.

Seems like since they moved and in some cases changed personelle their service after the sale is not what it used to be.

True AM is a non processed signal. The machine only has to be able to know there is a target and change threshold or beep. Even in PP on the SE you get a TID.... processed signal. I do like the ability to adjust the GB.... sometimes especially on gold it comes in handy to be a plus or minus to the ground.

Dew

Steve.

The all metal on the FBS is an all open discrimination program. That is what i mean.

Try, with a completely open disc program and a slight treshold to pump the coil in a metalfree spot.

There will be no change in the treshold, meaning the treshold is applyed to the disc mode and have no real contact with the ground as you would with a prospecting unit with a true all metal GB mode.

It is more like an additional tone ( nulling ) for disced out objects then a treshold tone.

frnifo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve.
>
> The all metal on the FBS is an all open
> discrimination program. That is what i mean.
>
> Try, with a completely open disc program and a
> slight treshold to pump the coil in a metalfree
> spot.
>
> There will be no change in the treshold, meaning
> the treshold is applyed to the disc mode and have
> no real contact with the ground as you would with
> a prospecting unit with a true all metal GB mode.
>
> It is more like an additional tone ( nulling ) for
> disced out objects then a treshold tone.
the etrac does it's own ground balancing CONTINUOUSLY all the time,,, it dos;not compensate for the ground it actually ignores it,,,,,, that;s why you would never hear a tonal change in the threshold. Being able to add or lower it for prospecting would be nice,,,, but this is not a prospecting machine,,,

Mike...... you are correct. The Minelab FBS units do not have...... nor do they need any form of Grnd Balance. It is technologically one step ahead of auto-ground-tracking. The multiple frequencies of FBS allow/authorize the 'cancellation' of (to ignore) mineralization..... that can 'look' like a target to a metal detector. The FBS technology has the ability to see the electromagnetic 'decay' rate of the dirt.......... vs.......... a real target. The decay rate of dirt is dramatically different from a actual/solid metallic target. ((( I know I am repeating myself...again ))). Adding a manual ground balance to a FBS unit would be akin to welding adjustable iron sights on a rifle that already has a scope.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont know.... they are still selling the heck
> out of Etrac's. I thought they moved all their
> operations out of Ireland? More expensive.....
> thats what we have all be waiting for. Id like
> to see them get into the PI and see what they
> could do with one.
>
> Dew

They are not selling the heck out of E-Tracs in England I hear (or where ever hammered coins are the target). They still do well on the hammereds but I have heard that the lighter Fishers/Technetics and the XP's have really really taken a bit out of their sales in England. They need a new machine in the worst way due to competition. This will only help the US Market, which I think is the biggest market?

I look forward to Minelab releasing a new and lighter machine. I love my V3i but it's a bit heavy with the stock coil. I'll look long and hard and the newest Minelab release.

Wow, thanks guys. I got an education! I understand now about threshold and all metal, and how it's "different" on the FBS units. And NASA-Tom, thanks for the explanation about the lack of need for ground balance on the FBS machines. Makes total sense what you said, I didn't know that.

Steve

Toms analogy to a scope on a rifle is very good.

However i think the scope has a fixed focus and not like our modern scopes with autofocus.

With my testing ( that may be argued ) depth on spesific ( different conductive ) objects differs with ground minerals.

Signalling that the scope has a preset focus........a object out of focus will be better if it is big.....True ?

Low conductive objects like small jewelry drops off in depth with the rise of minerals and GB balanceable machines is the better choice. 2-4 inches on F 75 on jewelry the FBS starts to neglect 100 %.

Not so with bigger targets and high conductive silver coins like a silver dollar.

As the minerals rise the FBS keeps on seeing the high conductive silver targets when the single frq machines lose them.

Not sure I understand your 'low conductive objects' statement/condition.

frnifo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no significant depth difference.
>
> Price difference has a lot to do with software and
> adjustments.
>
> BTW. Trustworthy sources tell me there is a new
> minelab being tested in Ireland at this moment. No
> idea what it is but since it is tested there the
> chance it is a coin/relic detector is good.
>
> And they really need a new top of the line machine
> at the moment to grab some back from XP and First
> Texas.

If its being tested in Ireland it probably is not a PI, they would test that in Austraila.

There is a very interesting article on the hammerd coin detection and the Etrac. Changing noise cancel channels has a direct affect on the detection of these small silver coins.


[www.minelab.com]


I would suggest reading all the treasure talk articles.

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dewcon4414 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I dont know.... they are still selling the heck
> > out of Etrac's. I thought they moved all
> their
> > operations out of Ireland? More
> expensive.....
> > thats what we have all be waiting for. Id
> like
> > to see them get into the PI and see what they
> > could do with one.
> >
> > Dew
>
> They are not selling the heck out of E-Tracs in
> England I hear (or where ever hammered coins are
> the target). They still do well on the hammereds
> but I have heard that the lighter
> Fishers/Technetics and the XP's have really really
> taken a bit out of their sales in England. They
> need a new machine in the worst way due to
> competition. This will only help the US Market,
> which I think is the biggest market?
>
> I look forward to Minelab releasing a new and
> lighter machine. I love my V3i but it's a bit
> heavy with the stock coil. I'll look long and hard
> and the newest Minelab release.

Tom,

Based on what the Au-21x can do in the water and dry sand, and if the FBS detectors are literally able to ignore ground min, (which the Au-21x cant) then wouldnt MineLab have the tech to disc between gold and aluminum or at least be on the right track to developing it?
Thanks,
Aaron

No.... probably not......... and don't forget the Minelabs are 'locked' in 'salt' mode....... (a similar form thereof)........ subsequently making them 'gold dead' to smaller gold items.

very interesting link, markg...wonder what the implications are for Explorer users; Explorers also allow you to manually choose your "noise cancel channel" from 1 to 11; wonder which is "best" for deep silver hunting? I don't understand the implications well enough to figure that out on my own at this point...

Steve

Indeed interesting but my feeling is let the unit figure out what noise cancel channel is best for the area you are hunting.

On the other hand why does Minelab give you the choice to sort of pick a channel?

Heck no one ever said the hobby is easy especially after years of hunting and after all the suppositions if you coil don't go over it or for that matter from the right direction you are not going to find it and one wonders how many nice coins or jewelry have we missed by an inch or two comes to mind.

I find it ridiculous to give us a choice in channel selection and not tell us what those random freqs are set at so we can make a logical choice. I do find channel 5 and 6 work best in Ind. for me. Knowing this might allow you better separation, less EMI, or better depth. Tom how tiny of gold are you talking? I pick up some pretty small earrings made of gold with the SE.... but if it beeps any i dig it. But unlike the Xcal the coil doesnt really care much for the surf. NOW.... if they would just make one that would snatch up more of those tiny chains of gold id be happy.

Dew

Dew, where are you finding the small gold at on the salt surf? I've tested many chains even a heavy rope and my Excal wouldn't touch it, because of locked in salt mode, now if it was in salt I'm assuming it would pick it up. However w the same unit I've found a 10kt tiny toe ring in fresh water at around 10"

Also..yes I don't understand why MineLab would be testing in Ireland when they moved operations to Malaysia...though I sure hope they have something new and revolutionary coming out.

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Indeed interesting but my feeling is let the unit
> figure out what noise cancel channel is best for
> the area you are hunting.
>
> On the other hand why does Minelab give you the
> choice to sort of pick a channel?
>
> Heck no one ever said the hobby is easy especially
> after years of hunting and after all the
> suppositions if you coil don't go over it or for
> that matter from the right direction you are not
> going to find it and one wonders how many nice
> coins or jewelry have we missed by an inch or two
> comes to mind.

90% of the time that I hit "noise cancel", it is because my hunting budding is also using an Explorer SE and it eliminates cross talk. The other 10% is because of EMI.

Cuniagau

“Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from any direction.”

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure I understand your 'low conductive
> objects' statement/condition.

Tom

What i mean is there is a notable difference for me in capable depth on the FBS on very low conductors as the minerals rise.

Implying that the scope analogy means a scope with a prefixed focus.

or in other words... preset GB points.

Also, without a GB possibility ground with rocks (cold or hot ) is a problem as You can not balance to the rocks and will suffer heavy falsing some places.

I am not sure the FBS has the ultimate GB or G neutralizing capability. I am sure DJ and also Whites engineers knows how the FBS operate and take advantage of what they know without saying anything. Minelab cant say anything because their advertising have been somewhat overly biased for a decade or more.

continue in next answer.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No.... probably not......... and don't forget the
> Minelabs are 'locked' in 'salt' mode....... (a
> similar form thereof)........ subsequently making
> them 'gold dead' to smaller gold items.

Yes, they are dead to smaller gold or other types of very low conductors. Also coal cinders or coke as they say in England.

FBS are definitely in a permanent salt mode. Question is if it is because the scope is fixed in the salt mode ( GB point ) or if it is because of subtraction of GB values.

That is also meaning that the window is smaller to low conductors in comparison to Fisher detectors. The window from lowest detectable object up to lets say a 1 dollar US gold coin.

In my opinion FBS is one of the worlds best detectors for detecting high conductors and the advantage is strenghtened as the minerals rise.

But outside that niche, many is equal.. some are better, a few is much better.

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also..yes I don't understand why MineLab would be
> testing in Ireland when they moved operations to
> Malaysia...though I sure hope they have something
> new and revolutionary coming out.

They moved production to Malaysia.

And also moved their european office to a better office in cork.

They still test detectors in ireland....

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it ridiculous to give us a choice in
> channel selection and not tell us what those
> random freqs are set at so we can make a logical
> choice. I do find channel 5 and 6 work best in
> Ind. for me. Knowing this might allow you better
> separation, less EMI, or better depth. Tom how
> tiny of gold are you talking? I pick up some
> pretty small earrings made of gold with the SE....
> but if it beeps any i dig it. But unlike the
> Xcal the coil doesnt really care much for the
> surf. NOW.... if they would just make one that
> would snatch up more of those tiny chains of gold
> id be happy.
>
> Dew
I believe the main reason you can choose a channel is to keep from interfering with another etrac in the area if they both automatically picked the same channel