Other finds from Cal Cobra's hunt. Artifact ID's please

Regarding Cal Cobra's 1860s quarter posted about a week ago: I was on that trek too. Used my Explorer II with sunray probe for all the sites. Sheesk, talk about a dinosaur, that's.... what ... nearly 15 yr. old tech ? But no one will ever pry it from my fingers, haha Do any of you fellow old-timers remember back in the 1970s and '80s, that if you had a machine that was a mere 5 yrs. old, you were WAY behind your peers. But now, technology has seemed to hit the point-of-diminishing returns. Where no amount of faster-&-smaller (like computers) can change the laws of physics.

Anyhow, our first stop was a spot "out west" where the military was recorded to have come & gone from in the 1860s . Even though we're not a CW state, yet the military had action out west for various tasks of westward expansion. So you guys that are good at CW relics, can you please lend some comments about these items:









Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2017 04:53PM by Tom_in_CA.

Next stop was a sort of a stage-stop location. Brian and I just discovered it on a previous reconn. trip. And ... up till now, had only scratched the surface exploring the boundaries of the zones of influence. On those prior trips I had bagged 2 seated dimes (1854, 1858) and a barber quarter (1900 s).

This trip did not disappoint. All of us bagged some coins. But as you can see from Brian's post on this forum, he got the best coin.

My take for this site, was 6 coins:

a) 1859 quarter (no mint mark discernible). This was utterly "kissed" by the soil. I lost my patience with ezest after 2 days of rotations & rubs. Had the genius idea to try electrolysis. That's where you take an old AC phone wall charger, cut the wires, attach alligator clips. Then one clip to the object. The other clip to stainless steel fork. Put both ends in salt water (careful not to touch). Then plug in . You will immediately see bubbles rising off the object. So far so good. But I made the mistake of doing it for ~30 minutes. Should have only been 30 seconds or one minute. Now it is so roached I can't even make out the date. Doh! But truth be told, I don't think any amount of correct conservation would have redeemed it. Could have been an "S" (good money coin). Now I will never know. Doh!

b) 1853 P quarter. The ground was very kind to this one. You can see from the before and after Ezest pix, that the black just came right off with no trace of effort. But ... alas, a common date and worn. This goes to show us that the condition of coins from this site, is location-specific. A mere 50 yards away from each other seems to dictate kissed vs not kissed by the soil.

c) 1897 S dime . Ground so-so kind to it. Semi key date, but worn condition.

d) 1918 s buffalo. Ground kind to it. Naval jelly lent it ok. But shows some "kiss". Semi key date.

e) Mystery coin. This had some lettering faintly discernible around the edge of one side. I could sort of make out "... repu.... " (as in "republic"). The metal appears to be very blackened silver. The size is exactly one of the USA bust dime sizes (slightly larger than the seated and barber dimes). But no amount of work brings out any more detail. So it's going to remain a mystery. It's quite thin, so I'm going to guess a reale of some sort.

f) 1858 S dime. Roach-kissed by the soil.

Here's some before and after pix. Plus all the period target age-indicators . We were hoping to get a live-dig of a coin caught on video. And a few times, stopped to film each other digging a "perfect penny/dime" signal. Or a zinc-range signal (half dime, gold coin, etc...). But alas: Every time we'd do that, THOSE were the rivots, bullets, or whatever. It got to where we wondered if turning on the video camera made them magically turn into bullets. :beat:


Here's the before pix. Just as they came out the rough soil:







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2017 04:58PM by Tom_in_CA.

Cool epaulette and real nice hardee hat pin!

Looks like a complete .50 cal Maynard there too

Here is the "after" pix. I know the old adage "never clean your coins". But for coins from this site, if/when left as is, they would be laughed on any numismatic selling block. So it's almost as if you certainly can't make them any worse. (Unless, of course, you do a numb nuts maneuver and leave them on electrolysis for 30 minutes :argh: )

And here's all the period nick-nacks. This does NOT include tons of modern bullet shells. This is just things I considered to be of the period. Even if just lead slag, etc... Thus, strictly as a ratio of period targets to period coins, the place is not that punishing. Contrast to our first stop of the trip where .... between us we pulled 150-ish "period targets" (even some nice ones) without a single coin.

A friend ours "Tony" got his share of buttons and nicknacks from the first site. And from the 2nd site he bagged 2 IH's (1890s) and a seated dime (1859 P).

This was from the first site: About the size of a dime. Any comments on this ? We assume a unit letter for something military ?

Company A letter = cool

Tom says:

"Where no amount of faster-&-smaller (like computers) can change the laws of physics."

but it certainly can (and is) putting more change in my pockets (think G2+), lol

a big part of the "fun" for me in this hobby is trying out new hardware occasionally, especially when the hobby pays for it.

to each his own I guess, dinosaur is correct...

canslawhero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> .... dinosaur is correct...

Brian (cal cobra) is better at following the technology curves as it relates to our hobby. He is always trying something new, following the rumor-mills, paying attention to hobbyist reviews, etc....

Nothing out there has exceeded the depth and tone ID's that the Explorers afford. But ... admittedly, when it comes to iron-riddled ghost-townsy sites: Machines like his Racer have been able to pull more targets out. Ie.: better at un-masking. I've got a Tesoro Bandito that I reach for in such situations. But ... admittedly ... it's probably only getting 3" depth on coin sized targets, when it comes to seeing them through/under a nail.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> canslawhero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > .... dinosaur is correct...
>
> Brian (cal cobra) is better at following the techn
> ology curves as it relates to our hobby. He is a
> lways trying something new, following the rumor-mi
> lls, paying attention to hobbyist reviews, etc....
>
> Nothing out there has exceeded the depth and tone
> ID's that the Explorers afford. But ... admittedl
> y, when it comes to iron-riddled ghost-townsy site
> s: Machines like his Racer have been able to pul
> l more targets out. Ie.: better at un-masking.
> I've got a Tesoro Bandito that I reach for in such
> situations. But ... admittedly ... it's probably
> only getting 3" depth on coin sized targets, when
> it comes to seeing them through/under a nail.

I agree with you, hoping the Equinox technology brings something new, ie multi-freq + unmasking + speed.....
possibly a higher-end version of that tech will do it, Minelab certainly has their **** together when it comes to new tech, hopefully 'broadening/bending a bit'
those limitations in physics...

btw, if there were an MD 'Hall of Fame' you'd get my vote, just saw your 'new' posting of gold coin finds, simply awesome....

You boys must have a blast on these trips. Heck of a lot of good finds too. One thing about the coins dug verses the east coast are the hefty amount of mint marks. Well done men!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2017 06:23PM by ozzie.

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.... One thing about the coins
> dug verses the east coast are the hefty amount of
> mint marks.


Thanx can-slaw and thanx Ozzie.

Ozzie, yes: We don't have LC's, colonial coppers, bust coins, etc.... brimming out of every sandbox like the east coast guys. We know you guys trip over those in the streets there.

But our one consolation is that we tend to get the better rarer mint marks (S's and CC's). You guys get all the common philly mints. Also: More gold coins get found out west. Even though philly minted gold coins too. That topic of distribution/demographics has been will dissected @ other threads.

Great job on all the cool finds. Looks like you guys had a blast.

Tom,

Nice hunt and recoveries.

Next time you might want to try baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) instead of salt as your electrolyte.
Its a more controllable electrolyte than saltwater, and doesn't have the unwanted side effect of creating chlorine gas as a byproduct...as does salt.

Also, to make sure there's no chlorine in the water, it's best to use distilled water. (Chlorine can cause blotching discoloration on coins.)

And, of course...as you've already surmised...15 to 30secs at a time is perhaps more prudent than half an hour.
Have fun,

mike

Very nice!!

Mike in CO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom,
>
> Nice hunt and recoveries.
>
> Next time you might want to try baking soda (sodiu
> m bicarbonate) instead of salt as your electrolyte
> .
> Its a more controllable electrolyte than saltwater
> , and doesn't have the unwanted side effect of cre
> ating chlorine gas as a byproduct...as does salt.
>
> Also, to make sure there's no chlorine in the wate
> r, it's best to use distilled water. (Chlorine can
> cause blotching discoloration on coins.)
>
> And, of course...as you've already surmised...15 t
> o 30secs at a time is perhaps more prudent than ha
> lf an hour.
> Have fun,
>
> mike

Thanx Mike. We plan on many more coins from this site. Some (gulp ... most) will likely be kissed. Will revise my electrolysis ingredients per your advice, on the coming conservation efforts. Thanx !

canslawhero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom says:
>
>
> a big part of the "fun" for me in this hobby is tr
> ying out new hardware occasionally, especially whe
> n the hobby pays for it.
>
> to each his own I guess, dinosaur is correct...

You'd think a guy that's found 15 gold coins could afford a new metal detector ah?

Ha, I remember when Tom wouldn't part with the whites eagle

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha, I remember when Tom wouldn't part with the wh
> ites eagle

It's been fun hunting with cobra-Brian for .... what ... 6 or 7 years now. At ghost-townsy spots. Because during that time I've seen him toy with no less than ... what ... 10 machines ? So I never have to invest in any experimental tests or costs. All I have to do is sit back and watch him. Whether or not it makes a difference in the finds tallies of our hunts. Or how 2 machines react to flagged un-dug targets.

And, after factoring in knowledge of sites (some of the sites were mine, that I was simply more familiar with) , or speed of agility/digging , then we can start to develop a knowledge of how the actual machines are comparing.

He had a few machines, at the start, which were supposed to be the "cat's meow" (some lousy fishers). Yet the explorer was spanking them 3 to 1. But in the last few years, he's upped his game to give me a run for my money in the tally-comparisons. Especially when he got the Racer. But as of yet, nothing I've seen that exceeded the Explorer II in counts. Just drew even. The exception was sites that were a solid bed of nails. Then yes: The Racer is a better target-averager-see-through machine.

So a big factor is in the type of sites. If targets are spread out, and not much iron, then the Explorer seems unrivaled. Or equaled at-best. But if nails and masking start to be a factor, then yes: There are better machines that the Explorer.

Hopefully on the hunts to come, at this site, we can do some live dig comparisons, with competing types machines swinging over the same flagged targets. I need to get a go-pro set up. Would be fun for a forum where tech. comparison is the main focus.

Yes the Whites Eagle II SL was a great machine for its day. But when an Explorer II guy was showing me flagged signals, in a deep-turf-silver environment, that I could honestly say I would not have heard .... that's when I ditched the Eagle. And although the Explorer is a "power-house" family of machine, yet it's not-so-bad in target separation. Yes it will fail the ultimate tests (the NBT, etc...). But .... given the power-house that it is, .... is quite versatile.

Tom I met you back when I was hunting with NightRay when he lived up here (Ray's now in Santa Barbara), back in 2008 at some east bay demos. I had a Fisher Coin$trike and you invited me to a coin infested area at the Montery beach to try it out in salt water (which it admittedly did a very poor job at). Later I got the F75 LTD and I think we got to talking about Spanish era sites, and you invited me to detect one of your back pocket sites. A few years later we did our first epic trip to socal to raid the coffers that the socal boys weren't, and continued to do research and more road trips. Great times!

Have I really had ten machines (maybe?), but yes I do like to try out new machines. For a while I was a Fisher fanboy, but after I finally figured out the F75 has a serious flaw in certain types of iron that effectively makes it blind, I decided to give the Racer a try when it was released, and it did not have that issue, nor did the R2 or Impact. I also tried the AT Pro for a couple of years, and it does well in iron, the pro audio is pretty good, but the tiny TID display and lack of depth (here) put it on the chopping block.

For me, and I believe Tom would concur, the Racers were a game changer for hunting the iron infested old sites that we enjoy researching and detecting. My finds went up considerably compared to my hunts with my F75. Don't get me wrong, I made some great finds with my F75 over the years (had it since 2009) and put thousands of hours on it, but I always felt like it was missing targets at times, and I got that confirmation from Tom Dankowski, and even conversations I had with Dave Johnson, which even though he didn't quite come straight out and agree, there was enough between the lines reading that it was obvious he was agreeing that it was crippled in certain iron scenarios that may not happen on other machines.

That said, the Racers have certainly increased my finds. When I was hunting with the F75, Tom would frequently spank me on total # of conductors. Now I'd say the Racers have, for the most part, evened the score, and sometimes I'll even best Tom, but the Explorer with it's FBS multifrequency does very well in mineralized soil, whereas the VLFs are at a definite disadvantage. Hopefully the Nox will solve that problem. Tom's done extremely well with the Explorer2, and what has amazed me is how fast of a hunter he is. Never seen anyone hunt as fast as he does and still make the finds. If we don't yet have the Equinox, the next trip to our site I'll focus on using the Impact and if you get a deep silver signal, I would like to try various options on the Impact to see what mode will work best at that site. That alkali soil reduces the depth on a VLF quite a bit on smaller targets, but with the right settings on the Impact it could likely get them. I'd love to run the 5kHz mode there for gold coins, but It seems like the lower frequencies don't play well with alkali whereas 20kHz has more alkali see thru ability.

-Brian







Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> deathray Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ha, I remember when Tom wouldn't part with the
> wh
> > ites eagle
>
> It's been fun hunting with cobra-Brian for .... wh
> at ... 6 or 7 years now. At ghost-townsy spots.
> Because during that time I've seen him toy with no
> less than ... what ... 10 machines ? So I never
> have to invest in any experimental tests or costs.
> All I have to do is sit back and watch him. Whet
> her or not it makes a difference in the finds tall
> ies of our hunts. Or how 2 machines react to flag
> ged un-dug targets.
>
> And, after factoring in knowledge of sites (some o
> f the sites were mine, that I was simply more fami
> liar with) , or speed of agility/digging , then we
> can start to develop a knowledge of how the actual
> machines are comparing.
>
> He had a few machines, at the start, which were su
> pposed to be the "cat's meow" (some lousy fishers)
> . Yet the explorer was spanking them 3 to 1. Bu
> t in the last few years, he's upped his game to gi
> ve me a run for my money in the tally-comparisons.
> Especially when he got the Racer. But as of yet,
> nothing I've seen that exceeded the Explorer II in
> counts. Just drew even. The exception was sites
> that were a solid bed of nails. Then yes: The R
> acer is a better target-averager-see-through machi
> ne.
>
> So a big factor is in the type of sites. If targe
> ts are spread out, and not much iron, then the Exp
> lorer seems unrivaled. Or equaled at-best. But
> if nails and masking start to be a factor, then ye
> s: There are better machines that the Explorer.
>
> Hopefully on the hunts to come, at this site, we c
> an do some live dig comparisons, with competing t
> ypes machines swinging over the same flagged targe
> ts. I need to get a go-pro set up. Would be fu
> n for a forum where tech. comparison is the main f
> ocus.
>
> Yes the Whites Eagle II SL was a great machine for
> its day. But when an Explorer II guy was showing
> me flagged signals, in a deep-turf-silver environm
> ent, that I could honestly say I would not have h
> eard .... that's when I ditched the Eagle. And a
> lthough the Explorer is a "power-house" family of
> machine, yet it's not-so-bad in target separation.
> Yes it will fail the ultimate tests (the NBT, etc.
> ..). But .... given the power-house that it is, .
> ... is quite versatile.

That's about as good as it gets

Mike in CO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom,
>
> Nice hunt and recoveries.
>
> Next time you might want to try baking soda (sodiu
> m bicarbonate) instead of salt as your electrolyte
> .
> Its a more controllable electrolyte than saltwater
> , and doesn't have the unwanted side effect of cre
> ating chlorine gas as a byproduct...as does salt.
>
> Also, to make sure there's no chlorine in the wate
> r, it's best to use distilled water. (Chlorine can
> cause blotching discoloration on coins.)
>
> And, of course...as you've already surmised...15 t
> o 30secs at a time is perhaps more prudent than ha
> lf an hour.
> Have fun,
>
> mike

Mike,

Good suggestions for the electrolysis. The the soil these coins comes from has a heavy alkali base. I'm not a chemist, but a quick google shows the below info on alkali, would that change your recommendations for cleaning?

Alkali salts are soluble hydroxides of alkali metals and alkaline earth metals, of which common examples are:

Sodium hydroxide – often called "caustic soda"
Potassium hydroxide – commonly called "caustic potash"
Lye – generic term for either of the previous two or even for a mixture
Calcium hydroxide – saturated solution known as "limewater"
Magnesium hydroxide – an atypical alkali since it has low solubility in water (although the dissolved portion is considered a strong base due to complete dissociation of its ions)

Alkaline soil

Soils with pH values that are higher than 7.3 are usually defined as being alkaline. These soils can occur naturally, due to the presence of alkali salts. Although many plants do prefer slightly basic soil (including vegetables like cabbage and fodder like buffalograss), most plants prefer a mildly acidic soil (with pHs between 6.0 and 6.8), and alkaline soils can cause problems.

Thanks,
Brian

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The the soil these coins comes from has a heavy alkali base.
> I'm not a chemist, but a quick google shows the below info on alkali, would that change your recommendations for cleaning?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian

Brian,
It might...depending on how badly the coins are encrusted...and if the 'crust' itself is highly alkaline, or instead already neutral from the reaction by the ground.
If it's already neutralized, then no changes.

But if the crust itself is alkaline:
You might first try soaking in lemon juice or vinegar...both high in acetic acid.
BTW, this is also the correct method for cleaning the whitish crust off your battery contacts after letting your alkaline batteries leak in your detector. (Use a q-tip for that.)
Not that I've ever had to do that...more times than I'll admit, anyway.

You might also try using the lemon juice as the electrolyte in the electrolysis process. It MIGHT be slightly more effective than baking soda if there's alkaline crust. Maybe.
If you choose to use acid as the electrolyte, don't add the baking soda during electrolysis...but do thoroughly clean/neutralize the coin afterward in a baking soda bath.

There's also one other method I won't publish online, as it's dangerous...but I'll PM you and Tom the info, should you wish to risk it.

Caveat: As we all should know by now, only use harsh/aggressive methods to clean coins that are already of little value. Any potentially valuable coin can only be hurt...potentially destroyed...by cleaning this way.
Because we tend to dig our coins out of the ground, they are typically already 'environmentally damaged'...so cleaning (or not) isn't as cut-and-dried as it would be coins that weren't rescued from a harsh 'dirt-nap'.
As are most things in life, it's usually safer to err on the side of caution.

Hope that helps,

mike

Cal Cobra if u haven't tried the Xp with elliptical coil yet ur missing out. The Xp handles the high mineralization/alkali type ground better than any other Especially if ur looking for gold. I've scored a gold coin, and 2 gold rings in the old Nv ghost towns since i started swinging the Xp deus. 2 hunts with my new elliptical and already a gold ring in an iron infested ghost town.

Mike in CO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The the soil these coins comes from has a heavy
> alkali base.
> > I'm not a chemist, but a quick google shows the
> below info on alkali, would that change your recom
> mendations for cleaning?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian
>
> Brian,
> It might...depending on how badly the coins are en
> crusted...and if the 'crust' itself is highly alka
> line, or instead already neutral from the reaction
> by the ground.

> There's also one other method I won't publish onli
> ne, as it's dangerous...but I'll PM you and Tom th
> e info, should you wish to risk it.
>
> mike

Mike thanks for sharing your knowledge on this, very insightful. I'm sure a chemist could likely do a far better coin cleaning job if they were able to analyze the soil and understand exactly what's in the soil there. All I know is that it's alkali, but it's kind of a general term that covers several sub-types of alkali salts, which likely have different cleaning solutions.

If your willing to share your secret recipe, please by all means PM us

Thanks,
Brian

The history you all are able to bring back is great! Always a pleasure to see and hear about your recoveries.

Kickindirt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal Cobra if u haven't tried the Xp with elliptica
> l coil yet ur missing out. The Xp handles the high
> mineralization/alkali type ground better than any
> other Especially if ur looking for gold. I've scor
> ed a gold coin, and 2 gold rings in the old Nv gho
> st towns since i started swinging the Xp deus. 2 h
> unts with my new elliptical and already a gold rin
> g in an iron infested ghost town.


Congrats on the gold coin, good to know some VLF machines are working well out there! I contemplated the XP Dues for a few years, but now that the Equinox is on the horizon, I'm going to give that a try. Between the 20/40kHz frequencies, and simultaneous multi-frequency options, it should be an excellent detector in the desert.