...and take this opportunity to detect national parks, national monuments, and national battlegrounds. Why not, they belong to us; we, the people.

Discussion?

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Dang!

That’s like sacrilege or something! At least Diggin on the battlefields would feel that way.

I remember the bunches of guys back in the 80s getting caught diggin up the battlefields. It’s why you can’t take Detectors within 5 miles of one now.

On the other hand though, national monument areas/historical marker type sites would be great places to dig and I wouldn’t feel bad about that

Good point about the battlefields, Wayne, but what is really different about the protected battlefield areas and the surrounding acreage that we are more than happy to detect if we can? On one side of the fence, chain, marker it's sacred and protected. And on the other side of that "line" it's not sacred just because it's not protected?

My point in bringing this thread up, is how ludicrous I believe politicians are in their belief that the government owns and controls property. It is not the government's; it belongs to the citizens of this country. And if government shuts down, they should not be able to lock a gate and keep the citizens out - they should open ALL the gates and simply walk away from the property. If they are "shut down," then get the hell off the property.

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

ncwayne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good point about the battlefields, Wayne, but what
> is really different about the protected battlefiel
> d areas and the surrounding acreage that we are mo
> re than happy to detect if we can? On one side of
> the fence, chain, marker it's sacred and protected
> . And on the other side of that "line" it's not sa
> cred just because it's not protected?
>
> My point in bringing this thread up, is how ludicr
> ous I believe politicians are in their belief that
> the government owns and controls property. It is n
> ot the government's; it belongs to the citizens of
> this country. And if government shuts down, they s
> hould not be able to lock a gate and keep the citi
> zens out - they should open ALL the gates and simp
> ly walk away from the property. If they are "shut
> down," then get the hell off the property.
>
> Wayne


Well said. I remember some seniors getting upset a while back about a war memorial site being gated off during the shut down, the last time.

Don’t these parks still have a minimum level of security patrolling around? But I agree with ncwayne. If you’re willing to dig private property, you should have no issue digging adjacent public land.

Trump is managing things differently than the last shut down. Only nonessential personnel will not be "working" ,,, vendors , maintenance ,etc. Security and such will be getting paid retroactively when the spending resumes just like the military and the gazillions of other government workers.

See you on the next episode Lockup!

ncwayne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...and take this opportunity to detect national pa
> rks, national monuments, and national battleground
> s. Why not, they belong to us; we, the people.
>
> Discussion?
>
> Wayne

No discussion needed...don't do it!!!!!!!!!! It will give a black eye to the detecting community and you will be prosecuted ..........

Interesting idea, for sure.
Why does it remind me of that South Park episode

They take your detector,car and lead you off in handcuffs....good luck as security will be present...

Does anyone here know if there are certain privileged individuals who get permission to metal detect battlefields such as Gettysburg, Vicksburg, Shiloh, Richmond, Antietam, Vicksburg, to name a few?

Imagine all the artifacts in the grounds of such places. I'm sure they have pulled items out for the museums and institutes so the public can see. Most of the artifacts were probably donated and have never been in dirt.

We have a neat little Civil War museum here in Doylestown Pennsylvania. I was told I could put my Great Great Grandfathers Union discharge paper and the bullet pulled from him on display in this museum......tough to hand that kind of valuable over to strangers to display. The discharge paper has some famous signatures on it. One of these days I'd like to post a pic.....or maybe I will ask RodPA to post one if I send it over to him by text.

Agree with Hombre as it's stupid and disrespectful to even consider such a thing. Too much greed in the Hobby nowadays or as some call it 'Saving History'.

I've thought about all the relics that must be in the ground every time I drive through Manassas Battlefield. Back in the 60's guys would hunt there in the middle of the day without a care in the world, right in front of the rangers. They didn't care then but they sure do now. It's nice to dream but I wouldn't consider it. I've seen what happens to people who get caught.

I wouldn't object to detecting national parks, national monuments, and national battlegrounds if the relics were placed in a national museum for everyone to view. If "we the people" own the national sites then "we the people" should be able to see them (rather than being sold for profit). If the government had wisdom it would allow detecting with the caveat that relics must be turned over - otherwise what remains in the ground will never be seen and eventually, it will decompose and be gone forever.

Couldn't agree with you more Johnny!
Damn shame thousands were injured and killed on those areas 150 years ago but it makes no sense and shows no disrespect to make it hallowed dirt except for the memory of what happened there and the lesson we should have learned. If every patch of dirt where someones great,great,great great grandpappy died was off limits we would have no where to plant seeds for food. Fortunately there is hope with the actions of our illustrious President Trump [www.cnn.com]

Johnnyanglo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't object to detecting national parks, nat
> ional monuments, and national battlegrounds if the
> relics were placed in a national museum for everyo
> ne to view. If "we the people" own the national si
> tes then "we the people" should be able to see the
> m (rather than being sold for profit). If the gove
> rnment had wisdom it would allow detecting with th
> e caveat that relics must be turned over - otherwi
> se what remains in the ground will never be seen a
> nd eventually, it will decompose and be gone forev
> er.

It might be possible in your dream world, but in reality...humanity would screw it up. JMHO

Hombre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Johnnyanglo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wouldn't object to detecting national parks, n
> at
> > ional monuments, and national battlegrounds if t
> he
> > relics were placed in a national museum for ever
> yo
> > ne to view. If "we the people" own the national
> si
> > tes then "we the people" should be able to see t
> he
> > m (rather than being sold for profit). If the go
> ve
> > rnment had wisdom it would allow detecting with
> th
> > e caveat that relics must be turned over - other
> wi
> > se what remains in the ground will never be seen
> a
> > nd eventually, it will decompose and be gone for
> ev
> > er.
>
> It might be possible in your dream world, but in r
> eality...humanity would screw it up. JMHO

The British law seems to work quite well. There's no reason we couldn't have a similar system here. There's nothing immoral about digging in a Civil War battlefield; it's merely illegal at the present time.

That is British Law, if I remember right, we are talking about Federal Parks in the good ole' U.S.A. it wouldn't fly. If you get permission on "private" land, close to and outside of the Federal Land .....that's another story and legal here in the States.

Federal Parks , Monuments , etc. ARE private land. It belongs to a corporation commonly known as the United States.
Article 1 Section 8 US Constitution
C O N S T I T U T I O N O F T H E U N I T E D S T A T E S
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever,
over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as
may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance
of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the
United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places
purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in
which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Maga-
zines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings;
-And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for
carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other
Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of
the United States, or in any Department or Offi cer thereof.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2018 01:34AM by shoveler.

Hombre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is British Law, if I remember right, we are t
> alking about Federal Parks in the good ole' U.S.A.
> it wouldn't fly. If you get permission on "private
> " land, close to and outside of the Federal Land .
> ....that's another story and legal here in the Sta
> tes.

Why wouldn't it "fly" here in the "good ole' U.S.A."? Laws and regulations can be amended or repealed. The current system is illogical. Artifacts are decaying in the ground when they could be recovered and appreciated.

Bayard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hombre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That is British Law, if I remember right, we are
> t
> > alking about Federal Parks in the good ole' U.S.
> A.
> > it wouldn't fly. If you get permission on "priva
> te
> > " land, close to and outside of the Federal Land
> .
> > ....that's another story and legal here in the S
> ta
> > tes.
>
> Why wouldn't it "fly" here in the "good ole' U.S.A
> ."? Laws and regulations can be amended or repeal
> ed. The current system is illogical. Artifacts a
> re decaying in the ground when they could be recov
> ered and appreciated.

Bayard .............buy all means, call your State representative and voice your proposal and see how far you get...LOL

Hombre Wrote:
> Bayard .............buy all means, call your State
> representative and voice your proposal and see how
> far you get...LOL

State representatives don't make federal law, and I don't share your helpless fatalistic view of life BY any means.

Television metal detecting shows have been given access to historical sites that have otherwise been off limits to detecting. It wouldn't be unthinkable to set up a permitting system for responsible metal detectorists to detect the same sites.

Much of what we know about the Custer battlefield is due to metal detectorists being allowed to detect the site back in the 1980s.

Laws and regulations, especially laws and regulations with no rational basis, can be changed. Britain had a problem with historical finds making their way to the black market before they changed their laws. If they can change metal detecting law to benefit both detectorists and the public good, so can we.

Why not allow detecting in a Civil War battlefield? Archeologists have had 150+ years to recover whatever they deem to be important. Nothing is being accomplished by letting the remaining artifacts decay in the ground.

Bayard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hombre Wrote:
> > Bayard .............buy all means, call your Sta
> te
> > representative and voice your proposal and see h
> ow
> > far you get...LOL
>
> State representatives don't make federal law, and
> I don't share your helpless fatalistic view of lif
> e BY any means.
>
>I was pointing out that you could contact your State representative that represents your state in the House of Congress in Washington D.C. They for sure make up Federal Laws........

Do you even know who is your State representative?

Hombre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bayard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hombre Wrote:
> > > Bayard .............buy all means, call your S
> ta
> > te
> > > representative and voice your proposal and see
> h
> > ow
> > > far you get...LOL
> >
> > State representatives don't make federal law, an
> d
> > I don't share your helpless fatalistic view of l
> if
> > e BY any means.
> >
> >I was pointing out that you could contact your St
> ate representative that represents your state in t
> he House of Congress in Washington D.C. They for s
> ure make up Federal Laws........
>
> Do you even know who is your State representative?

My state representative is the neighbor of a friend. She "works" in Springfield Illinois and makes laws for the state of Illinois. She has no federal authority.

I have a Congressman and two Senators at the federal level. Congressmen represent congressional districts, not states, although there may be some states with so small a population that they only have one congressman.

Whatever restrictions cover metal detecting in national parks and similar sites, I suspect these restrictions are regulations as opposed to laws passed by Congress. If so, there would be four ways to eliminate the regulations: via the President, via the administrative agency, via Congress, and by suing the administrative agency in federal court.

dont you mean assault rifles ?

Harold and Hombre I think here, I agree with.

Really a silly subject to even be talking about.

I mean the moral of the story here shouldn't be to break the law, just because no one likely is around to catch you.
Lawlessness- we have enough of this in USA, don't need to add detectorists to the list.

I wonder just what extremes some here would go to get access to buried CW relics.