Question for Tom or other Omega users...

Can anyone tell me why the Omega LOVES junk targets so much? I'm talking nails, small wads or bits of foil, pull-tabs, bottle caps, etc. With the exception of the bottle caps, I cannot figure out for the life of me why these targets are hitting in the penny/dime/quarter range on my 8000. I've even tried running with the disc 16 setting and the nails seem to be flying out of the ground. Could it be due to the lower operating frequency?? I would say the Omega is okay for coins, but, IMHO, muuuuuuuuuuuch better suited as a jewelry or relic hunting machine. Doesn't seem to hit the deep coins that hard for me. Tops out at about 7" or 8" max - and that's pushing it. And when something IS in the 7" or 8" range, the signal is ultra faint, almost like a whisper. NOT what I would consider a coin-killer by any means. Any ideas???

Also, I've heard from many people saying that the 2d tone gets the most depth, but, is this factual? I've tried running in 2d and it's okay, but, I MUCH prefer 3d. I've actually done pretty good with the 8000 in the short time I'm swinging it, however, it's almost like a trash magnet at times.

Any tips are appreciated. I've got my CZ-3D coming soon and am stuck with the 8000 till then...

What VDI #'s are you getting on foil and pull tabs? The F 75 LTD seems to ID deeper pull tabs in the coin range, but that hasn't been so much of an issue with the 8000 for me. I run my Omega with the sens as high as I can go, two tones and the disc turned all the way down. If there is a lot of chatter, I'll turn the disc up as high as 16. The only nails that fools me are ones that are very bent. The two tone audio gives you a lot of clues.

I'm getting a LOT of junk coming up in the upper 70's, low 80's mid 80's & even 90's. I'm trying to only dig the solid repeatable signals, but, if something is jumpy on the VDI range within 5 or 10, I normally dig it too. I also get a LOT of mixed signals - high & low tone mixed - so, takes SO MUCH time to decipher these that I'm going batters. ALL machines have problems around iron, however, I've noticed that around iron the Omega will find it VERY hard to lock on to VDI numbers.

I get some SWEET sounding tones - some deep - that I would almost be sure were coins, but, out of the hole comes a wad of foil, nail or other crap.

Also noticed that the Omega hits HARDER on brass, copper, tin and the above mentioned foil & iron better than it does on coins IMO.

There's something I really love about this machine, but, the jumpy VDI numbers, the attraction to trash targets and the weak depth just aren't cutting it.

njnydigger, I do not have an Teknetics Omega, I have a Fisher F-4, It does not have a lot of bells and whistles, It aint the deepest or most expensive, but after lurking here for roughtly a year I have learned a few valuable tips.

1) Read as much as you can.

2) Go out detecting as much as your time and back permits.

3) Learn from your reading and actual detecting, then put them together in your own mind.

4) Take your detector out somewhere you won't have to dig very deep, for example ; gravel parking lots, storage buildings that have gravel around them instead of concrete, (These 2 are my favorite as the goodies are often hidden in plain sight). While you are there you will OFTEN be able to see what you are about to detect , sometimes even before you swing your coil across it. Learn what each item ID's as you see it, make a mental note. because this little trick allows you to find the same stuff you are finding WITHOUT having to dig, dig, DIG !! If you try this you will quickly see
and learn your detector and do your back a favor.

5) Lastly the reason I sent you this little tidbit is because I feel your pain and frustration. Make it a habit to learn something everytime you go out.

Sincerely, Tri

PS For the gravel parking lots, all you will need is a garden scratcher (metal or plastic), Leave your shovel at home for awhile.

Several things about the Omega that you're wrestling with...... first being the "junk" targets. Not always, but (depending on the site) the Omega will show a foil or higher junk target at or near what a higher conductive coin should do as you first come across it, BUT when you rotate 360 degrees (exactly) over the target, it will show the proper ID range for quite a bit of the rotation. I noticed this early on when I first got one and now I basically consider it as part of the "learning the language" of the Frat Boys as well as and to a slightly lesser degree, the F series. I'm sure you've had detectors that showed a high false over iron but when you re-check it at 90 degrees, it shows its true identity. A lot of times the Frats do similar things over trash. It just takes some time, once you know and see this, to develop a high degree of confidence in what it's trying to say and how. Another thing they can do is to null in one direction over small foil. Early on I dug every target that acted that way and it was never anything good and seemed to be related to an irregular shape and low mass, definitely lower mass than any coin.......well at least the "typical" coins we all find. And yes, with co-located targets this can materialize similarly but obviously for a different reason. For this, you need to find a way (all metal or careful and correctly initiated pinpointing) to determine that there are in fact two of more objects under the coil and use your coil to help disect the total picture to each individual object

The other audio thing is when you're in 3 or 4 tone with the Omega. As you probably know, the Omega is fairly modulated only in the high tone and this is pre-set at the factory. I personally absolutely love this feature and can hear and have dug considerably deeper old coins than what you're seeing on your end. I have decent to good hearing and I'm using phones that don't detract from the already modulated audio. Your issue can be related to your hearing, your choice of phones, or a combination of both. If you can get your hands on one, you might try a Gamma which has an onboard volume control which will adjust to an upper range that boosts the modulated high tone audio somewhat. Of course if you use 1 or 2 tones, those aren't modulated nearly as much as the high tone is so that is why they seem to "eliminate" that issue.

I know at this point your not enamored with the Omega, but what about using the 5" DD coil. Better target seperation/run higher sensitivity and more accurate visual ID readings. Then, once you know what the 5" DD is telling you, you can move back up to the larger coil with more knowledge.

Also, Buckeye is correct about doing the rotation on a target, My White's Silver Eagle, which is really a XLT, will sometimes give a initial good signal, but a quick 90-180 degree rotation and the ID #'s go down to the trash numbers. And the exact reverse is true....a junky signal......rotate.....turns out to be a good target. Takes 2-3 seconds to do a rotation. Its standard when I hunt with this machine. Alot of detectors behave this way and the user needs to do what Brad has outlined.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2011 06:38AM by TerraDigger.

sell it, and buy yourself a real detector!
signed, ex omega owner

If foil is IDing in the coin range, wouldn't that be a Ground Balance issue? Make sure you are getting a clean GB. I've heard Tom comment on this several times. Personally, I don't think a 7-8" dig is all that bad on a mid-range detector. It's not going to compete with the high-end detectors as they cost more for a reason.

My question is: Do these trash targets (foil ... tabs) ID as 'coin' in an air-test.....once they are out of the ground? If so.......there's a fault with the unit.

I have dug many targets with the F75 set to 4 tone not 4H that ID as high tone that turn out to be low conductor targets. Nickles in my test garden with the Explorer read very inconsistent with ferrous numbers as low as 00 and as high as 18 and the conduct numbers are from 01 all the way to 10. Actual ID is 10 ferrous-05 conduct when out of the ground. One machine up averages and one machine drops it closer to iron. I have nickels buried in my test garden that just null or no signal at all with the Explorer but will beep with the F75 SE but ID as high as 88. This is one of the reasons I have started hunting with the TDI. Its ID is very accurate even though the iron disc is very tricky to learn.

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

If you have nickels that ID incorrectly with two machines I suspect you have another "target" nearby.

Tom, All targets read normally out of the ground. Delta, Gamma, Omega, all do the same thing.

I have a test garden that was cleaned fairly good (not with a 700lb pull though) and also I can dig signals out in the field with the same results. My ground does show 2 or 3 bars on the F75 SE and in some places 4. I think this is the reason for the ID problems.

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

Hmmm... I see 2/3/4 bars but do not have the ID problem with my LTD. The Explorer should have little problem, especially running in auto-sensitivity.

If I locate a target running manual sensitivity(usually around 26-27) then switch to auto most times it will not pick it up at all. I believe this is why Tom D. stated "Do not utilize 'auto' Sens............if at all possible"

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

On a 'fixed/known' target........verify ID failure. Then,,,,, try different Grnd Bal settings (incongruent with actual mineralization).

... but running an Explorer/Etrac in AUTO SENS gives maximum ID capability.

sell it, and buy yourself a real detector!
signed, ex omega owner

POSSUM
WHAT IS A REAL DETECTOR?????????????????????????????????

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Thanks Tom I will try that.
The G2 will ID with no problem down to about 10" on a nickel with no problem. The G2 seems to be very accurate.

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

I know this is an old thread, but I was finally able to take my Omega out for a few hours. Health problems last several months. Dang if it didn't happen to me too. Dug 3 old style pull tabs (ring with beaver tail). Sure enough, they rang in @ 88-92. And I did the 360 degree rotation. About 6 different sweep angles in that 360. Only once did the ID go into the 60's. These pulltabs were between 2-4". So depth wasn't a factor in the ID . I DON'T LIKE THAT IN A MACHINE. Coins behave that way too, where at one angle you will get a 20-30 point drop doing a 360 rotation. Had the disc set to eliminate everything up to zincs. And my machine was properly ground balanced. The pulltabs were not co-located. It did one pull using the 5" DD and two pulltabs using the stock concentric. I really hope it is some oversight on my part, because along with the pulltabs, I was having the same experience, digging the same types of trash, as NjNyDigger was, in high discrimination levels. Carbon copy experience. Mineralization is moderate/high in Idaho.


Also, as long as I am giving my evaluation, my Teknetics headphones kept cutting out in the right earcup becauce the internal jack fit is loose and the jack itself where the plastic hexagonal nut holds it to the machine is also loose. It will never hold up to repeated use IMHO. Too light weight to handle the weight/stress of that size headphone plug.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2011 02:12AM by TerraDigger.