Why is iron discriminated out as the default setting in every mode on the Equinox?

[www.findmall.com]

pine3874 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.findmall.com]


Your question could be considered in error or misleading. (Purely unintentional)
Why?
Park 1 and Field 2 disc are different vs others. These 2 detect modes (factory disc) also disc out some of the nonferrous range.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2018 08:52PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pine3874 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > [www.findmall.com]
>
>
> Your question could be considered in error or misl
> eading. (Purely unintentional)
> Why?
> Park 1 and Field 2 disc are different vs others.
> These 2 detect modes (factory disc) also disc out
> some of the nonferrous range.

What you said is correct, but it still doesn't answer my question. Why disc out iron(plus some non-ferrous in some modes) in every mode as a factory preset?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2018 09:06PM by pine3874.

pine3874 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > pine3874 Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > [www.findmall.com]
> >
> >
> > Your question could be considered in error or mi
> sl
> > eading. (Purely unintentional)
> > Why?
> > Park 1 and Field 2 disc are different vs others.
> > These 2 detect modes (factory disc) also disc ou
> t
> > some of the nonferrous range.
>
> What you said is correct, but it still doesn't ans
> wer my question. Why disc out iron(plus some non-f
> errous in some modes) in every mode as a factory p
> reset?


Ok
What would you suggest?
How many generally dig ferrous on a regular basis? Intentionally.
I don't.
Not like a person can't change if they want to.
Besides you still have horse button to push and go AM.

Most folks do not want to hear iron.
Most folks do not want to dig iron.

Personally, i prefer hearing everything, i find it difficult detecting without hearing the iron, especially with detectors that false high tone on iron, i hate that!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> Most folks do not want to hear iron.
> Most folks do not want to dig iron.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pine3874 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > pine3874 Wrote:
> > > ----------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > -----
> > > > [www.findmall.com]
> 5
> > >
> > >
> > > Your question could be considered in error or
> mi
> > sl
> > > eading. (Purely unintentional)
> > > Why?
> > > Park 1 and Field 2 disc are different vs other
> s.
> > > These 2 detect modes (factory disc) also disc
> ou
> > t
> > > some of the nonferrous range.
> >
> > What you said is correct, but it still doesn't a
> ns
> > wer my question. Why disc out iron(plus some non
> -f
> > errous in some modes) in every mode as a factory
> p
> > reset?
>
>
> Ok
> What would you suggest?
> How many generally dig ferrous on a regular basis?
> Intentionally.
> I don't.
> Not like a person can't change if they want to.
> Besides you still have horse button to push and go
> AM.

Just for clarity. In all of the testing and hunting that you've done and reported on, you had all of the iron disced out? I was always under the impression that the more iron that one discs out it affects the masking negatively. I guess that is not the case with the Equinox.

pine3874 Wrote:
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> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > pine3874 Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> > > ----------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > -----
> > > > pine3874 Wrote:
> > > > --------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > --
> > > > -----
> > > > > [www.findmall.com]
> 06
> > 5
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your question could be considered in error o
> r
> > mi
> > > sl
> > > > eading. (Purely unintentional)
> > > > Why?
> > > > Park 1 and Field 2 disc are different vs oth
> er
> > s.
> > > > These 2 detect modes (factory disc) also dis
> c
> > ou
> > > t
> > > > some of the nonferrous range.
> > >
> > > What you said is correct, but it still doesn't
> a
> > ns
> > > wer my question. Why disc out iron(plus some n
> on
> > -f
> > > errous in some modes) in every mode as a facto
> ry
> > p
> > > reset?
> >
> >
> > Ok
> > What would you suggest?
> > How many generally dig ferrous on a regular basi
> s?
> > Intentionally.
> > I don't.
> > Not like a person can't change if they want to.
> > Besides you still have horse button to push and
> go
> > AM.
>
> Just for clarity. In all of the testing and huntin
> g that you've done and reported on, you had all of
> the iron disced out? I was always under the impres
> sion that the more iron that one discs out it affe
> cts the masking negatively. I guess that is not th
> e case with the Equinox.


I wouldn't say all hunting done had iron disc out.
But the Nox with iron disc out, is one hunting son of a gun in and around iron.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2018 11:46PM by tnsharpshooter.

Who cares just press one button and it grunts iron.

It uses a little more battery NOT disc out......... and most machines run smoother in presets .... which are a starting point. You dont have to disc it out..... you can just turn the volume down in that area too.

I've always been under the impression that discriminating out any type of metal decreases depth. So for decades now I've always kept the discrimination wide open on all my detectors and hunt by tone ID and VDI. I'm so used to hearing iron that it would bother me to not hear it.

If you switch to all metal with the horseshoe button, does it still retain the tone ID or does everything have the same tone?

.

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally, i prefer hearing everything, i find it
> difficult detecting without hearing the iron, espe
> cially with detectors that false high tone on iron
> , i hate that!
>
Exactly right, Hearing the iron holds a lot of valuable information especially with with the EQ which loves to false

Diggs4ever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly right, Hearing the iron holds a lot of val
> uable information especially with with the EQ whic
> h loves to false

The Equinox is kind of deceiving because it runs so quiet at high power compared to the CTX and E-Trac..
It will false on nails pretty hard at 22-25 sensitivity on my ground but quietes down considerably when you drop
to 20-21 which is around 80% of full power..
CTX full sensitivity is 30.. Equinox is 25..
I can only run my CTX and E-Trac at around 65% (19-20) of sensitivity before it starts falsing on nails, the ground, and EMI noises
start to overwhelm them..
The 65% equivalent on the Equinox is around 16 sensitivity but I can run at 20 with minimal falsing and still get more depth then FBS..

Bryan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2018 10:46PM by Cabin Fever.

I guess I don't understand the apprehension about iron disc'd out in the defaul modes.

If you want to hear iron, un-disc it, you can always reduce the iron audio to reduce audio fatigue.

Pressing the horse shoe doesn't actually invoke an all metal specific mode, it simply runs zero disc.

It's all documented in the user manual.

This probably has some bearing on why iron is disced out in most modes. If you don't ask the machine to disc out the iron it probably won't because the iron is going to be the stronger reading. Sheds some light on the results of these "testers" who insist the only way to run a detector is with "0" disc. "Someone" should try some retesting with the Etrac and the Deus on their test scenarios.

[www.youtube.com]

This pic.

Etrac set up like in video above with disc line brought up to 32. Fast on deep off.
Multi tone conductive, Etrac fails with sweeps.
I can do hover sweeps over dime and get tone.

Equinox I can do full sweeps and using park 2 factory disc speeds 7 and 8 and get tone, and believe it or not good ID. And all this provided swinging from both directions with Nox.

Might Deus wearing 11" LF coil on the above.
Full tones 0 disc no cigar.
Disc 6, using pitch tones,I get broken signal using reactivity level 4 (at times) ID in window 03/04.
Using 18 kHz. Hot program.
Deus coil height to get borderline signal critical(has to be close to nails)

Been trying to tell folks, Nox IDs in iron pretty darn good. Finds stuff too,
It is my opinion, Minelab tested Xp Deus and LF coils to high heavens.
Hence the Nox.
Or should I say Etreus. Not misspelled either.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2018 12:18AM by tnsharpshooter.

DYODD folks!

Cabin Fever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Diggs4ever Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Exactly right, Hearing the iron holds a lot of v
> al
> > uable information especially with with the EQ wh
> ic
> > h loves to false
>
> The Equinox is kind of deceiving because it runs s
> o quiet at high power compared to the CTX and E-Tr
> ac..
> It will false on nails pretty hard at 22-25 sensit
> ivity on my ground but quietes down considerably w
> hen you drop
> to 20-21 which is around 80% of full power..
> CTX full sensitivity is 30.. Equinox is 25..
> I can only run my CTX and E-Trac at around 65% (19
> -20) of sensitivity before it starts falsing on na
> ils, the ground, and EMI noises
> start to overwhelm them..
> The 65% equivalent on the Equinox is around 16 sen
> sitivity but I can run at 20 with minimal falsing
> and still get more depth then FBS..
>
> Bryan

I have a iron laden site which is so polluted with iron it takes 20 to 25 minutes to find a clean spot to ground balance your machine. When testing the nox I had the sens down to 14 at one point and the falsing was still a issue I played with each setting to see what improved things and what didn't. On a blanket of iron With a sens of 14 and iron bias set over 5 in park 2 and field 2 The nox had a minimal of three false signals per sweep most sweeps had 4. Most false signals lie on the 13, 14, 15, lines in muilty in my dirt...Two inches above center of coil seems to false the worst. When pulling coil back 3 inches from dead center iron is id'd correctly. Whereas 2 inches above dead center has a high false rate.My dirt is moderately minerlized that combined with Extreme iron the nox is a poor performer in my ground. The nox performs well in heavy iron however extreme iron sites it doesnt seem to handle as well as other machines. It is impossible to cross reference repeatable false signals via lower khz program when you are in such conditions.

Diggs4ever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cabin Fever Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Diggs4ever Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Exactly right, Hearing the iron holds a lot of
> v
> > al
> > > uable information especially with with the EQ
> wh
> > ic
> > > h loves to false
> >
> > The Equinox is kind of deceiving because it runs
> s
> > o quiet at high power compared to the CTX and E-
> Tr
> > ac..
> > It will false on nails pretty hard at 22-25 sens
> it
> > ivity on my ground but quietes down considerably
> w
> > hen you drop
> > to 20-21 which is around 80% of full power..
> > CTX full sensitivity is 30.. Equinox is 25..
> > I can only run my CTX and E-Trac at around 65% (
> 19
> > -20) of sensitivity before it starts falsing on
> na
> > ils, the ground, and EMI noises
> > start to overwhelm them..
> > The 65% equivalent on the Equinox is around 16 s
> en
> > sitivity but I can run at 20 with minimal falsin
> g
> > and still get more depth then FBS..
> >
> > Bryan
>
> I have a iron laden site which is so polluted with
> iron it takes 20 to 25 minutes to find a clean spo
> t to ground balance your machine. When testing the
> nox I had the sens down to 14 at one point and the
> falsing was still a issue I played with each setti
> ng to see what improved things and what didn't. On
> a blanket of iron With a sens of 14 and iron bias
> set over 5 in park 2 and field 2 The nox had a min
> imal of three false signals per sweep most sweeps
> had 4. Most false signals lie on the 13, 14, 15, l
> ines in muilty in my dirt...Two inches above cente
> r of coil seems to false the worst. When pulling c
> oil back 3 inches from dead center iron is id'd co
> rrectly. Whereas 2 inches above dead center has a
> high false rate.My dirt is moderately minerlized t
> hat combined with Extreme iron the nox is a poor p
> erformer in my ground. The nox performs well in h
> eavy iron however extreme iron sites it doesnt see
> m to handle as well as other machines. It is impos
> sible to cross reference repeatable false signals
> via lower khz program when you are in such conditi
> ons.

So what detector with the same sized coil the nox has perform in that environment? It would appear that that environment requires a smaller 5" or 6" coil.

I detect the Tonopah dumps, it's a mining boom town dump, it's got more iron then just about any site you can imagine, millions of rusty cans, rusty tin, big iron, small iron, and lots of treasures. I've successfully detected it with a Racer2 using the 5" OOR coil as well as the Impact with the 7.5" x 4" DD coil, anything larger then that and your kidding yourself.

At some point it gets down to a matter of physics, sure some detectors are better at certain things then others, but you can't honestly expect to have a 11" round DD coil excel in this kind of environment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2018 06:44PM by Cal_cobra.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-.
> >
>
> So what detector with the same sized coil the nox
> has perform in that environment? It would appear
> that that environment requires a smaller 5" or 6"
> coil.
>
> I detect the Tonopah dumps, it's a mining boom tow
> n dump, it's got more iron then just about any sit
> e you can imagine, millions of rusty cans, rusty t
> in, big iron, small iron, and lots of treasures.
> I've successfully detected it with a Racer2 using
> the 5" OOR coil as well as the Impact with the 7.5
> " x 4" DD coil, anything larger then that and your
> kidding yourself.
>
> At some point it gets down to a matter of physics,
> sure some detectors are better at certain things t
> hen others, but you can't honestly expect to have
> a 11" round DD coil excel in this kind of environm
> ent.

Yes of course a smaller coil would be the optimal choice in such conditions... That goes without saying really... This site is a testing site I use for new tech that is released. All units used had a 11 inch DD. My whole post was geared towards a falseing issue with the nox. It falses and performs extremly bad in heavy iron. The Deus and Ctx both will out perform in such areas. The Ctx will out perform just for the fact you can cherry pick mid conductors out of a iron laden site where 90% of false signals will be on the high line so any mid to low tones will indicate good targets. When the nox falses it falses all over the plain. Both the xp deus and the ctx ID iron extremely better then the minelab equinox. I'm sure you will see such examples in due time. As the old saying goes the proof is in the pudding. The equinox has a few quirks Falsing is one of them. Integrity is paramount and out weighs most things in life so that being said people should be able to read a true review of a product. It's a great machine for the 1000 dollar range and would be recommended by me for beach hunting and field hunting with moderate iron. As for relic hunting And cellar holes with extreme iron there are a few other machines better suited. Sorry maybe I should just say its the greatest machine out and everyone should buy one Haha get real it has falsing issues in heavy iron plain and simple

Diggs4ever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> -.
> > >
> >
> > So what detector with the same sized coil the nox has perform in that environment? It would appear that that environment requires a smaller 5" or 6" coil.
> >
> > I detect the Tonopah dumps, it's a mining boom town dump, it's got more iron then just about any site you can imagine, millions of rusty cans, rusty tin, big iron, small iron, and lots of treasures.
> > I've successfully detected it with a Racer2 using the 5" OOR coil as well as the Impact with the 7 .5" x 4" DD coil, anything larger then that and your kidding yourself.
> >
> > At some point it gets down to a matter of physics, sure some detectors are better at certain things then others, but you can't honestly expect to have a 11" round DD coil excel in this kind of environment.
>
> Yes of course a smaller coil would be the optimal choice in such conditions... That goes without saying really... This site is a testing site I use for new tech that is released. All units used had a
> 11 inch DD. My whole post was geared towards a falseing issue with the nox. It falses and performs extremly bad in heavy iron. The Deus and Ctx both will out perform in such areas. The Ctx will out perform just for the fact you can
> cherry pick mid conductors out of a iron laden site where 90% of false signals will be on the high line so any mid to low tones will indicate good targets. When the nox falses it falses all over the plain.
> Both the xp deus and the ctx ID iron extremely better then the minelab equinox. I'm sure you will see such examples in due time. As the old saying goes the proof is in the pudding. The equinox has a few quirks Fal
> sing is one of them. Integrity is paramount and out weighs most things in life so that being said people should be able to read a true review of a product. It's a great machine for the 1000 dollar ran
> ge and would be recommended by me for beach hunting and field hunting with moderate iron. As for relic hunting And cellar holes with extreme iron there are a few other machines better suited. Sorry maybe I should just say its the
> greatest machine out and everyone should buy one Haha get real it has falsing issues in heavy iron plain and simple

I hear what your saying. OK, it should be interesting to see how it does at my iron laden relic sites, and what (if) magic settings can over come that. I wonder at these iron infested sites, if multi doesn't do the job, perhaps these sites would do well running in 20/40kHz? Might be a few months or so until I get to test one of these sites out, but am looking forward to it as I like to test machines at sites I've previously detected as I know the ground conditions, iron zones, inventory of iron (nails, cast iron, cans, flat tin, combo, etc.) and other data points so you have a somewhat controlled test environment.

Well, my Nox sure ain't been sitting idle. I have been using it.
I can tell folks right now straight up. In my soil you pit Deus 11" LF coil against Nox and stocker coil in polluted sites. Nox has edge.
And a fairly big one too.
Especially on medium and smaller buttons, medium and smaller lead. And yes smaller silver coins.

This what I say above based on head to heads locating targets with each and checking.
Nox clear winner.

Okay let's talks falsing.
Number one is anyone going to find a nonferrous find where falsing is going on ?
Don't think so.
Number 2, Nox has uncanny ability to ring in ferrous louder usually. The nonferrous will be lower sounding and mellow.
I run 0 iron bias all the time in every site.
I can listen to Nox and know what's a false or not.
Do I ever get fooled?
I haven't run a detector yet where I don't.

Field 2 with disc set up as factory park 2 is what I like.
Nox will sure hunt like this.
Signals when heard not really even questionable.
Brings the targets out of the mineral with wholesome tone.
Deus trends toward iron. And on some nonferrous targets actually reports as iron.

I have been in the exact same sites with CTX and Deus.
CTX with stocker coil don't stand a chance. sorry.
Deus better, but using multi freq on Nox is one heck of a system to pull out the finds.

Now this is keeping everything here in perspective with all detectors wearing 11" coils. Although I have witnessed some with 9" LF coil too.
And if Nox's smaller coil is anything like stocker. Then Nox and smallest coil, pitting CTX and 6" coil to it, it don't stand a chance.

Here's something I am noticing when comparing Nox to Deus and LF coil use age.
If Nox can't hit a target after located using Mulit freq using single freq ops, Deus and LF coil high percentage odds of no detection.
And something else. But I have to dig nonferrous located with Nox to see this.
If Nox IDs a target (shallow or mid depths) and gives substantial lower ID reading when buried and undisturbed vs airtest ID of target, you sweep a Deus and either the 9" or 11" LF coil over, you odds wise are SOL of being able to hear Deus give anything nonferrous sounding signal wise. With any huntable settings.

I did forget one thing here.
It don't take 4 bars or higher soil to fool a Deus on some nonferrous targets either, level 3 will too.
Nox seems is harder to be fooled.
Yes some nonferrous sitting out in the open, Nox busts clearly. Deus struggles.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2018 12:29AM by tnsharpshooter.

I think the answer to your question is simple.... they are presets to make the machine operate smoothly that most people can use as a starting point to learn the machine. Like most patterns.... and thats what this is ..... we will change them to suit our hunting style for the targets we are looking for..... once we learn what the machine is capable of and the settings. Ill bet all most anyone who KNOW detecting will change the defaults to suit them. Ive changed a good many default settings..... and keep tweaking them. My setting are right for Me for my area and conditions, but they certainly wont run the EQ as smoothly as the presets will. So i couldnt see using them as a default on every machine and giving them to a new guy..... hed sell the machine the first week lol. You wont sell a machine out of the box that isnt running smoothly anywhere you use it. Once you have accomplished that..... then it needs to have the proper settings to make people want to buy it....... and it this case the price range vs what you get is a real seller.

David........ do you not like the HF coil/system of the Deus? I notice that you nearly never compare to HF Deus. Maybe it's terrible in your hot dirt.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> David........ do you not like the HF coil/system o
> f the Deus? I notice that you nearly never compare
> to HF Deus. Maybe it's terrible in your hot dirt.


Tom,
I do like HF coils for Deus.
They do better in my soil vs LF coils.
But for whatever reason they try and trend lead especially round to iron tone. These same targets when compared to Equinox many of them crystal clear with tone.
They also struggle with elongated nonferrous objects.

Takes a more trained ear using HF coils vs Equinox to locate nonferrous targets in my detecfor proving grounds farm.
User will dig more on a whim vs Equinox.

Now using the middle band freq 28.8 kHz works good.
But trying to run the highest bands on the HF coils when around bigger iron causes problems, especially with the elliptical HF coil. They love to light up relic iron using highest bands. And a person has to spend some time culling it out by sweeping and rotating around target, etc.

The elliptical HF coil is the real standout out of the bunch. Due to it quietness, and yes its signals not as drawn as close to iron tone region vs the round HF or the LF coils.
But round HF coil obviously due to size and shape gets to some targets elliptical can't.

I plan to do some more comparing this week. By hunting in a section I have spent little time. Targets will be sparse, but will try to alternate finding a target using
Deus with elliptical and round HF coils and the Equinox. And share.

Gotta watch green up here is coming and coming fast.

Btw, 2 of my detector testing fields were fertilized couple days ago. I intentionally went into one of them to run Equinox. Just to see effects of fertilizer. I could definitely tell the field had been fertilized. Equinox was giving little quirks as the coil would pass over ground. Some places a little little worse than others. Definitely not a field right now to do any serious detecting work in an iron patch.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2018 02:07AM by tnsharpshooter.

Ok...... got it! HF Deus has plenty of quirks and limited use. Was simply wondering....... as you compare finding very small targets with Equinox in a higher group of Multi-Freq's; yet, not to the (comparable) HF of the Deus.