I found X with X!

(my apologies up front as I am not trying to rain on anyone's parades nor bring negativity, just being real and truthful as I can)

Well here I am, the reality kill-joy with what can be deemed a, "negative article". It seems to me that truth and reality seem to go hand in hand with negativity.

Being that this is a learning forum, I thought I would give a small lecture on finds when using a newly released detector.

Sometimes, when a new product is released, you will see posts about how this product found a valuable item in a pounded spot. While you may feel the finds are from the fantastic, newly released machine you just plunked down your hard earned money for, it is most likely due to two things. Digging more than you normally would and paying attention.

The psychology here is; I got a new detector, I want to see how it works, I paid money for this, I am paying attention. Are there other factors? For sure. but for this article, I am focusing on just these.

The mechanics of it; So when you receive a new detector, you want to get the most out of it. So you read everything you can, watch as many videos as you can stomach, and play with different settings. You try to squeeze the maximum yield out of the machine. You go to your old spots hoping to breathe new life into them, plus you have the, "home field advantage" where you feel most comfortable. You are paying attention to every noise no matter how tiny.

The "amazing" new finds; So you get out there and suddenly, you are finding things you "missed". Gold, silver, conductive pieces, relics seem to come out of no where! Excited, and rightfully so, you post about this amazing new wondrous machine!

The reality; the reality is, you most likely could of found those with most any machine, even your old one. But why didn't you? You got too comfortable. Too complacent. You stopped paying attention and you dug less. You also forgot about all the hard work and learning you invested into the new release.

What have we learned here? We learned that a newly released machine isn't the messiah we think it is when we find things in a pounded out area. It is your hard work, and your time invested in the machine and the hobby as a whole that helped you. It is your paying attention to what is going on under the coil that provided you with that, "missed find".

Bottom line, when you find something in a pounded site, give yourself some credit.

Brilliant,however get ready for the Pitch Forks.

Yes I am sure a Machine like the Nox with its speed has advantages in some hunting areas over other units.
But after a good spring thaw or regardless I have went back to sites I have gave up on and decided to Hunt as no where else to go at the time. I figured just be a relaxing hunt not expecting to find anything and then bang a Few keepers come up and I am shocked. All with same old unit so that can be part of it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2018 05:44PM by Harold,ILL..

BINGO!

I couldn't agree with you more Beyonder as I said about a month ago and sure enough it is holding true
"There is a phenomenon that I have experienced myself where a person will use a new detector a bit more diligently and employ more concentration than they do as they become more accustom to it that leads to some remarkable finds in areas they have hunted before , which leads them to believe the other detectors missed the targets , when in fact , it was the more intense technique which was ultimately responsible. I doubt Minelab would feel confident in that phenomenon to carry the day with early users results when a good deal of them may be very inexperienced detectorists in the first place. I have yet to see a test from anyone where the Equinox found items other detectors did not find in objective , straight head to head tests."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2018 06:27PM by shoveler.

So Bey, Are you hinting to us that your new ObsoletOmatic is just another run of the mill detector? ... are you wanting us NOT to buy one to keep ALL the goodies for yourself?

Ha, my last statement reminds me of my ole pops. When he was chewing on something, we'd ask him "how's the food?" If it was good his answer would always be "It's terrible, don't eat any". Funny sh17 your dad says...said.

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So Bey, Are you hinting to us that your new Obsole
> tOmatic is just another run of the mill detector?
> ... are you wanting us NOT to buy one to keep ALL
> the goodies for yourself?
>
> Ha, my last statement reminds me of my ole pops. W
> hen he was chewing on something, we'd ask him "how
> 's the food?" If it was good his answer would alwa
> ys be "It's terrible, don't eat any". Funny sh17 y
> our dad says...said.

I have only hunted four times. Not nearly enough to even get an idea. Rest assured, I will give the goods as I go along

I initially thought F75 was better, but after more use theres no doubt EQ600 is better and its not attributed to any of your lecture points.
-------------------------------------------------------
> (my apologies up front as I am not trying to rain
> on anyone's parades nor bring negativity, just bei
> ng real and truthful as I can)
>
> Well here I am, the reality kill-joy with what can
> be deemed a, "negative article". It seems to me th
> at truth and reality seem to go hand in hand with
> negativity.
>
> Being that this is a learning forum, I thought I w
> ould give a small lecture on finds when using a ne
> wly released detector.
>
> Sometimes, when a new product is released, you wil
> l see posts about how this product found a valuabl
> e item in a pounded spot. While you may feel the f
> inds are from the fantastic, newly released machin
> e you just plunked down your hard earned money for
> , it is most likely due to two things. Digging mor
> e than you normally would and paying attention.
>
> The psychology here is; I got a new detecto
> r, I want to see how it works, I paid money for th
> is, I am paying attention. Are there other factors
> ? For sure. but for this article, I am focusing on
> just these.
>
> The mechanics of it; So when you receive a
> new detector, you want to get the most out of it.
> So you read everything you can, watch as many vide
> os as you can stomach, and play with different set
> tings. You try to squeeze the maximum yield out of
> the machine. You go to your old spots hoping to br
> eathe new life into them, plus you have the, "home
> field advantage" where you feel most comfortable.
> You are paying attention to every noise no matter
> how tiny.
>
> The "amazing" new finds; So you get out the
> re and suddenly, you are finding things you "misse
> d". Gold, silver, conductive pieces, relics seem t
> o come out of no where! Excited, and rightfully so
> , you post about this amazing new wondrous machine
> !
>
> The reality; the reality is, you most likel
> y could of found those with most any machine, even
> your old one. But why didn't you? You got too comf
> ortable. Too complacent. You stopped paying attent
> ion and you dug less. You also forgot about all th
> e hard work and learning you invested into the new
> release.
>
> What have we learned here? We learned that
> a newly released machine isn't the messiah we thin
> k it is when we find things in a pounded out area.
> It is your hard work, and your time
> invested in the machine and the hobby as a whole t
> hat helped you. It is your paying attention
> to what is going on under the coil that provided y
> ou with that, "missed find".
>
> Bottom line, when you find something in a pounded
> site, give yourself some credit.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2018 11:47PM by newguy.

I largely disagree, especially with regard to a fast machine like the Equinox.

The Equinox has made some finds that my Etrac could not have made. These were coins surrounded by iron or other junk. There was nothing psychological or technique related about those additional finds. It was strictly the different capability of the Equinox.

Different detectors have different capabilities. The finds two different detectors are capable of making differ at the margin. The Etrac has more precise TID, while the Equinox is fast. Reasonable people can disagree on whether their capabilities for making finds overlap 80%, 90%, or some other percentage; however, they definitely do not overlap 100%.

There are too many variables involved to accurately state that Machine X or New Machine Y works better in your conditions, in your soil conditions, with your skill level,
knowledge of the machine and good or bad habits vs the same parameters with someone else.
It is impossible to accurately measure for comparison.

When someone is involved with a new machine vs their previous machine, these same variables come into play again only now, we are intensely focused on the performance
of the new machine itself and tend to forget about all of these same variables that caused the previous success or failure.

Something as simple as the past vs present moisture content of the soil or previous standing water which could effect sink rate, mineralization etc etc.

When it comes down to it, we all judge much of what we learn to believe based upon gut reaction and feeling.
We all want to believe that the new machine works better than the last and will ferret out the left overs from that old favorite hunted out / pounded site.

Maybe we hunted longer due to the new machines lower weight and found more ????

I think that we should at least attempt to be objective to the subjective. Keep it real and try to be honest with these situations and ourselves.
Its hard to accurately measure things, not impossible but within the limits of average hunters, we will at least know whether a new unit is 100% crap, must have it now or somewhere in between.

Now lets roll that delicious Equinox footage.......

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant

Down and dirty in this case the nut behind the wheel is sharp and done his homework....go get em Bill......Heck you could find em with a hickory stick...
PS: your Dad said your going to need a bigger closet soon....
PS....well said and excellent post....

As Grant said...too many variables. It's all very subjective. If it works better for you, on your sites, who cares about the why?

Dean

I got some great responses for this post!

" the reality is, you most likely could of found those with most any machine, even your old one."

I am not speaking in absolutes, nor am I saying that the machine may or may not play a part in the event listed as a "missed find". To say that there is no psychology involved during a hunt is silly, whether it be consciously or unconsciously. During a hunt you should always be thinking and most likely you are.

"Maybe we hunted longer due to the new machines lower weight and found more ???? "

This is a great point however, the main variable is you. Your perception of the machine and the hunt itself. I have recently lost a lot of weight. I can hunt longer and faster(and I feel fantastic) so if I buy a new machine and have a "missed find" event happen, regardless of the truth, which am I most likely to give credit for? My weight loss or the new machine I just bought?

The point of the article was, "take a step back and see what is really going on".

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got some great responses for this post!
>
> " the reality is, you most likely could
> of found those with most any machine, even your ol
> d one."
>
> I am not speaking in absolutes, nor am I saying th
> at the machine may or may not play a part in the e
> vent listed as a "missed find". To say that there
> is no psychology involved during a hunt is silly,
> whether it be consciously or unconsciously. During
> a hunt you should always be thinking and most like
> ly you are.
>
> "Maybe we hunted longer due to the new machines
> lower weight and found more ???? "
>
> This is a great point however, the main variable i
> s you. Your perception of the machine and the hunt
> itself. I have recently lost a lot of weight. I ca
> n hunt longer and faster(and I feel fantastic) so
> if I buy a new machine and have a "missed find" ev
> ent happen, regardless of the truth, which am I mo
> st likely to give credit for? My weight loss or th
> e new machine I just bought?
>
> The point of the article was, "take a step back an
> d see what is really going on".


Beyonder.
I can attest.
Equinox 800 is an apex unit in iron, and is an apex unit for separation and unmasking ( ferrous, rust, and mineral in soil).
It will find nonferrous that many other detectors will not alert on, using any and all huntable settings.
I have seen this first hand.
Believe it or not, it is FACT.

I lucked out, had the perfect site to witness this.
An old site I had pounded and pounded using some good detectors and coils.

The why behind this?
I believe as far as Nox it is freq driven and is part of the multi freq tech used in Nox.

And the Nox gives full tone on many of these crippled nonferrous that many other detectors won't see. Purely amazing!!!

If I had go pro and videoed and put here, maybe then folks would believe. Or would they?

Someone here a few years back called Deus an apex unit for separation and unmasking.
If Deus fits this bill above.
The Equinox most certainly does.
Maybe the apex of apex. Keyword here maybe.

Nox is a one detector one coil detector that solves a whole lot of detecting equations/problems with solutions. I think this is about as simple as it can be said.
Now what about smaller coil?
Hopefully I'll get one and try it out.
If its performance is anything like stocker, oh boy!!!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2018 02:38PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I got some great responses for this post!
> >
> > " the reality is, you most likely coul
> d
> > of found those with most any machine, even your
> ol
> > d one."
> >
> > I am not speaking in absolutes, nor am I saying
> th
> > at the machine may or may not play a part in the
> e
> > vent listed as a "missed find". To say that ther
> e
> > is no psychology involved during a hunt is silly
> ,
> > whether it be consciously or unconsciously. Duri
> ng
> > a hunt you should always be thinking and most li
> ke
> > ly you are.
> >
> > "Maybe we hunted longer due to the new machin
> es
> > lower weight and found more ???? "
> >
> > This is a great point however, the main variable
> i
> > s you. Your perception of the machine and the hu
> nt
> > itself. I have recently lost a lot of weight. I
> ca
> > n hunt longer and faster(and I feel fantastic) s
> o
> > if I buy a new machine and have a "missed find"
> ev
> > ent happen, regardless of the truth, which am I
> mo
> > st likely to give credit for? My weight loss or
> th
> > e new machine I just bought?
> >
> > The point of the article was, "take a step back
> an
> > d see what is really going on".
>
>
> Beyonder.
> I can attest.
> Equinox 800 is an apex unit in iron, and is an ape
> x unit for separation and unmasking ( ferrous, rus
> t, and mineral in soil).
> It will find nonferrous that many other detectors
> will not alert on, using any and all huntable sett
> ings.
> I have seen this first hand.
> Believe it or not, it is FACT.
>
> I lucked out, had the perfect site to witness this
> .
> An old site I had pounded and pounded using some g
> ood detectors and coils.
>
> The why behind this?
> I believe as far as Nox it is freq driven and is p
> art of the multi freq tech used in Nox.
>
> And the Nox gives full tone on many of these cripp
> led nonferrous that many other detectors won't see
> . Purely amazing!!!
>
> If I had go pro and videoed and put here, maybe th
> en folks would believe. Or would they?
>
> Someone here a few years back called Deus an apex
> unit for separation and unmasking.
> If Deus fits this bill above.
> The Equinox most certainly does.
> Maybe the apex of apex. Keyword here maybe.
>
> Nox is a one detector one coil detector that solve
> s a whole lot of detecting equations/problems with
> solutions. I think this is about as simple as it
> can be said.
> Now what about smaller coil?
> Hopefully I'll get one and try it out.
> If its performance is anything like stocker, oh bo
> y!!!

I tried to keep the Nox out of the thread and that is why I never mentioned a specific machine. Also,I am not saying they do or don't play a factor in the "missed find" event."

Of course if you go and take a machine that can unmask very well in an area with a machine that doesn't unmask so well and find a clearly masked find, the machine obviously played a part in it.

However, IF this weather ever breaks, I will be posting more vids of the Nox and other machines. From the few short hunts I did, I was impressed with some aspects of the machine.

Beyonder,
I want to believe you.
One problem.
Seems these conspiracy kinda threads started coming from you in connection with Minelab and Equinox.

I could set here all day and speculate about things.
Would be a pure waste of my time really.
Instead I try to get out and prove my mental speculation. True or false.

Some thing else I see on this forum, not tied directly to your thread or comments, but will say anyway.

I am kinda taken back at what folks post and talks about as far as testers.
Folks know good and well who I am referring to.
Just remember these folks like the rest of us won't be here forever.
I do value their input, but there are other folks here who can use a metal detector and can assess and provide comments.

Trend's really is what we should be looking for anyway,
And trends take time.

So all I can say is take your detecfor new or old, get out there and use.
And by all means consider sharing your experiences.

Some here seems to think sharing experiences and or their finds (if not older) is remedial or beneath them or to the forum audience here.
Well, I got news for folks.
Age of find might not really shed the best light on a couple things.
A pwrwon's detecting skills and or a detector's capabilities.

Just in the last few weeks, a good nonferrous find to me ain't what it used to be.
I'll let folks ponder what I mean here by saying what I have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2018 03:36PM by tnsharpshooter.

"Seems these conspiracy kinda threads started coming from you in connection with Minelab and Equinox."

I post a lot of threads. Some of a conspiratorial nature, some of a speculative nature. Because my opinion matters to me and some others, I try not to be favorable one side, or the other. I try to be unbiased and look at things objectively.

Some people feel the term "conspiracy" is a dirty word. To me, it just means there is more going on than we think.

One thing that is the most important to me is honesty. There is so much outright lying on the internet it bleeds over into real life! IF there is something wrong with a company or machine, I won't hide or sugar coat my opinions THAT is why these conspiracy threads come from me.

IF you want my opinion on Minelab, the company, I would gladly give it. If you want my opinion on the Nox, you are going to have to wait until i get some hours in.

Just explaining where I am coming from.

Two Arms! Two arms! The British are coming!

Lol

I get it totally. But I’ve been hunting with the 800 for 3 solid weeks. It’s one fine detector.

It’s like if you drink Ushers every day.. and someone keeps raving how good Glenlivit 18 is..
Until you try it, you’ll never know how good it actually is.

Coming from the Etrac I can attest it’s abilites.

I’m hoping one day NASA-Tom can open up and talk about it and give us insight like the Impact.
.

XP Deus
Minelab Etrac
Minelab Equinox 800
Garrett Carrot
22 silvers, 2 silver rings, 1 Gold Ring -YTD 2018


Some of my random digs: [www.youtube.com]