Results of 2 different park turf tests. Nox vs Exp. II duels

Thanks Tom ...Good information. I'm still waiting to get mine. My soil in Central Alabama is medium to highly mineralized, so, I'm hoping to get another inch vs my E-trac and CTX3030. The deepest silver dime that I've dug here has been 7" and have all read as iron in the bottom right hand of the screen. Some sites around Birmingham I can't see beyond 3". Auto tracking +3 runs in the single digits. So, I'm HOPING.

Thanks for the well done report, Tom.

calabash digger Wrote:
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> Thanks cant wait to see your ghost town report...


Don't think that's going to happen: [www.ebay.com]

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> calabash digger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks cant wait to see your ghost town report..
> .
>
>
> This will be on some upcoming hunts with Brian. A few of our relicky spots are not a function of iron-see-through. But a few others most definitely are.
>
> One thing that, unfortunately, will not be happening, is to have Brian pit it against his tried & true Racer and Impact. I saw his finds #s go way up when using those machines. Admittedly seeing through iron better than my Explorer. And admittedly deeper than the bandido. So I'd really love to have him compare-duel his own machines. But ...I don't for-see that happening . So it won't be known if the afore-mentioned machines couldn't equa
> lly have gotten a signal.
>
> Unless I'm wrong and you intend to do this Brian ?


So definitely now that Tom's EQ800 is off to fleabay, if anyone does this it'll be me. I sold off my Impact, not because I didn't like it, it's a great machine (how can you not like a detector that finds your first gold coin!), but after the Multi Kruzer, it was, for me, redundant. I would definitely like to test my Multi Kruzer against the Equinox, but it may not be until fall that we're able to get to the sites I'd like to do the shoot-out at.

Tom,

Greatly enjoyed the read. Thanks for taking the time to sit down and put it on 'paper'.


Rich (Utah)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It has one of the better abilities to handle high m
> inerals. I've been able to hunt places I normally
> would have to go to all metal on machines that off
> ered it, or to pulse machines, which as soon as yo
> u hit heavy iron, pulse machines struggle.
>

Excellent post Daniel. As I've said: I'm sure there's niches for it. But no, it has not made other machines obsolete. And as for what you're saying about mineralization: I look forward to possibly getting Brian down here to the beach during erosion that had produced jet black sand. I have most definitely had times when I'd have given anything to have a pulse machine on the beach. When encountering jet black conditions by gully-washes, or up against the base of cuts at certain beaches. I've seen where machines can scarcely pick up a coin on top of the ground ! Yet we KNOW there's coins there, because I've picked up silver coins by eyeballing them right on top.

The only reason I just don't have a pulse in my arsenal for such conditions is: a) I refuse to dig nails on the beach all day, and b) the conditions this bad are rare here. It's just at a few select zones, and you can usually just move 10 ft. away, and it's more tolerable. But if a machine could achieve decent beach depth, AND be able to knock out nails, AND be able to do it in jet black minerals, then sure: That would be nice.

I have a feeling that this will NOT be as good as a beach pulse in those conditions though, right ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2018 02:27AM by Tom_in_CA.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would defin
> itely like to test my Multi Kruzer against the Equ
> inox, but it may not be until fall that we're able
> to get to the sites I'd like to do the shoot-out a
> t.

You still have your Racer, right ? If so, I'd like to see that tested against the Nox as well. I could swing one, and you swing the other, and compare over flagged targets trying to struggle their way out of beds of iron-nails.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I would defin
> > itely like to test my Multi Kruzer against the Equinox, but it may not be until fall that we're able to get to the sites I'd like to do the shoot-out at.
>
> You still have your Racer, right ? If so, I'd like to see that tested against the Nox as well. I could swing one, and you swing the other, and compare over flagged targets trying to struggle their way out of beds of iron-nails.

What's the point?

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> What's the point?


Cheap thrills. Morbid curiosity. But seriously now: I suspected you would say that. Which is why I said in a prior post in this thread that "probably aint gonna happen". I know you're less concerned about testing, and consider it a function that bites into precious detecting time. You have no qualms about making show & tell videos of finds. But when it comes to testing/pitting machines, you're less into that.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> calabash digger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks cant wait to see your ghost town report..
> .
>
>
> Don't think that's going to happen: [www.e]
> bay.com/itm/Minelab-Equinox-800/123037214453?hash=
> item1ca596e6f5:g:nk4AAOSwVExatSaz


Wow.. Only one hour of use..
I had assumed you at least ran it for an entire day for your test report..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2018 02:55AM by Cabin Fever.

Cabin Fever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Wow.. Only one hour of use..
> I had assumed you at least ran it for an entire da
> y before selling it..


I ran it for 2 days. Over the course of many many hours. Read the ad closer and you'll see that the "1 hr." is "combined" or "cumulative". Because I'd turn it on and off, each time for flagged comparisons on known signals. And I just threw out a rough guess of the total time it was powered up (might have been closer to 2 hrs.)

And BTW : No amount of time spent on those targets (ie.: no amount of "practice" or "effort" ) was/is going to change those results. If we're talking flagged signals, where a person can criss-them and play with buttons , and has used , by all consensus, the proper settings: Then no added amount of time changes that. And you can see various guys here, who are un-disputed tech tester gurus, are not disputing the results. Ie.: no additional amount of time is going to change those tests on specific exact sample spots.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > What's the point?
>
>
> Cheap thrills. Morbid curiosity. But seriously now: I suspected you would say that. Which is why I said in a prior post in this thread that "probably aint gonna happen". I know you're less concerned about testing, and consider it > a function that bites into precious detecting time. You have no qualms about making show & tell videos of finds. But when it comes to testing/pitting machines, you're less into that.

Yes making videos of detecting finds is fun, because, well, you're detecting, and finding stuff, like what you're supposed to be doing when you detect

I'll do one between the Multi Kruzer and EQ800, but the typical response here to test vidoes invokes a tar and feather response, not exactly enticing

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bu
> t the typical response here to test vidoes invokes
> a tar and feather response, not exactly enticing :
>

Haha, I hear you. Nobody like it when someone calls their baby ugly

You didn't even give it a shot in your ghost town sites?! The outcome of your tests was fairly predictable on your chosen testing ground. Yet, you threw in the towel before giving it a shot where it would, predictably, surpass the Explorer? You proved nothing other than what ML already said. Too bad. I was looking forward to a ghost town run with the Equinox from you. I guess I will look forward to Brian's Equinox ghost town report.

Dean

Thanks for your efforts Tom---really appreciate it.-------Del

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cabin Fever Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Wow.. Only one hour of use..
> > I had assumed you at least ran it for an entire
> da
> > y before selling it..
>
>
> I ran it for 2 days. Over the course of many man
> y hours. Read the ad closer and you'll see that t
> he "1 hr." is "combined" or "cumulative". Becau
> se I'd turn it on and off, each time for flagged c
> omparisons on known signals. And I just threw ou
> t a rough guess of the total time it was powered u
> p (might have been closer to 2 hrs.)
>
> And BTW : No amount of time spent o
> n those targets (ie.: no amount of "practice" or "
> effort" ) was/is going to change those results. I
> f we're talking flagged signals, where a person ca
> n criss-them and play with buttons , and has used
> , by all consensus, the proper settings: Then no
> added amount of time changes that. And you can s
> ee various guys here, who are un-disputed tech tes
> ter gurus, are not disputing the results. Ie.: n
> o additional amount of time is going to change tho
> se tests on specific exact sample spots.

That’s fine Tom..
I had just assumed reading your detailed report that you had spent several hours swinging just the
Equinox looking for targets to flag just like you did with your Explorer..

Bryan

bado1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You pro
> ved nothing other than what ML already said. Too b
> ad. I was looking forward to a ghost town run with
> the Equinox from you. I guess I will look forward
> to Brian's Equinox ghost town report.
>

Dean, read again. Minelab did NOT "already say" that. See my challenge to Steve and Daniel (which neither have addressed so far). See that the statement being referred to is *hardly* an admission of any weakness to high-conductors at depth (when compared to some existing machines). And , in fact, could be interpreted as just the opposite.

You're right: I did not give it a duel in iron-riddled sites. I can already say it will no doubt spank the explorer. BUT SO TOO DO MULTIPLE OTHER MACHINES. Since the Exp II is admittedly not good in the iron-see-through dept. So what's the point ? The only duel I could have offered it was to pit it against my Tesoro Bandido. And I can already say that the depth of the Bandido is poor. So it would boil down to "which sees targets better under rusty nails ?"

But what I would REALLY like to see, is field-tests on flagged native targets, of Nox vs machines like the deus, racer, kruzer, impact, etc... Which are supposed to be the best of both worlds. Eg. depth PLUS iron-see-through/around.

But I have none of those machines. My hunt partner Brian does though. And .... yes ... we will hopefully be testing in the coming year (spring grasses too tall this time of year). We have some sites (stage stops for example), where the iron is practically a continuous spread (you can see square nails just littering the surface like toothpicks). And, with effort, we can pull suspender clips, henries, buttons, etc.... But past md'rs and ourselves have picked out the non-masked stuff. So we suspect that more is there, provided we can un-mask.

I think the Equinox is a great complement for an FBS machine. My 600 has unmasked numerous coins that my Etrac was incapable of finding.

Earlier today I dug a clad quarter with a pull tab on top of it. The quarter signal was strong and clear with quarter numbers on the readout. The Etrac would have averaged the numbers and given me a readout of something like a zincoln.

Cabin Fever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I had just assumed reading your detailed report th
> at you had spent several hours swinging just the
> Equinox looking for targets to flag just like you
> did with your Explorer..
>
> Bryan


Bryan, good point. Yes: to Be totally fair, I should likewise have gone about flagging targets with the nox, and then reverse testing asking myself: " What does the Exp. II say ? " You can see from my opening post, that I did indeed do a few reverse flag scenarios.

However: Yes, I did do most all of them with Exp. II find and flag signals first, and THEN pull out the nox to see what it says. Because I was most curious , first of all (faster and easier) to FIRST establish that they are at least equal (a step sideways). And THEN I would have pursued more of the reverse flagging tests.

And as you see from my post, I acknowledge a win for a mid-conductive small brass bolt thing, that I admit the Exp. should have seen. I guess I'd have given that higher grades in my book if that had been a higher conductor (penny, dime or whatever). Because otherwise, all this does, is simply show that one is better at low (or mid) conductors. Which is fine. But for purposes of my testing, it was park turf. Where ... if one is cherry picking, then that's not the objective. I would have been totally floored and fretted myself silly with more/longer tests, if that one target had been ... say ... an IH or wheatie or silver. However, on the other hand, for certain hunt objectives/sites: That was a definite plus over an explorer , for the nox.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would definitely like to test my Multi Kruzer against the
> Equinox, but it may not be until fall that we're able
> to get to the sites I'd like to do the shoot-out at.

I second that motion, yea would love to see that head to head.

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant

Bayard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Earlier today I dug a clad quarter with a pull tab
> on top of it. The quarter signal was strong and c
> lear with quarter numbers on the readout. The Etr
> ac would have averaged the numbers and given me a
> readout of something like a zincoln.


Hmmm, very interesting. This would come in handy for something like hunting under bleachers. Where the objective is not iron-see-through, but .... is instead aluminum see-through . If you're cherry picking for high conductors in a sea of aluminum. You're right: Power-house machines like the Etrac and Exp. II will most likely see the low conductor and mask. But a machine like a 2-filter tesoro is more likely to average the 2 targets, and give you something that still "beeps" (albeit at a lower TID than the coin-standing-alone).

If you're saying that the signal you describe gave an un-wavering quarter TID, (as if the tab wasn't even there), then .... I'd certainly like to see more experimentation on this.

I might just do an air test (since my Nox is still here) and knock out tabs on the disc. Then hold a tab with a dime or quarter behind it. Do I still get a beep ? If so, is it at compromised #s ? Or at full TID of said-coin ?? Anyone else wanna do this air test to see if Bayard's results can be replicated in an air test ?

Tom,
I posted in my thread here some test.
Compared Deus and Etrac and Nox.

As far as comparing Etrac to Nox.
Does Nox have advantage in modern trash = Yes
Does Nox have advantage in iron = Yes
Does Nox have advantage in a site with both iron and modern trash = Yes

Now, here is where things can get dicey. Imo running 50 tones can has advantage on detecting the tighter sitting higher conductive nestled. The way Nox audio can quickly report/respond with coil movement. Using 5 tone and sectors, some targets could get lost. Unless you get lucky with your bin setup as to how detecfor actually responds to the situation.
Nox is what I call a big time pick off detecfor.
Tighter than dick's hat band- stock coil.
Smaller coil, if it's tighter oh my!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2018 04:35AM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom,
> I posted in my thread here some test.
> Compared Deus and Etrac.
>
> Does Nox have advantage in modern trash = Yes
> Does Nox have advantage in iron = Yes
> Does Nox have advantage in a site with both iron a
> nd modern trash = Yes
>
> Now, here is where things can get dicey. Imo runn
> ing 50 tones can has advantage on detecting the ti
> ghter sitting higher conductive nestled. The way
> Nox audio can quickly report/respond with coil mov
> ement. Using 5 tone and sectors, some targets cou
> ld get lost. Unless you get lucky with your bin s
> etup as to how detecfor actually responds to the
> situation.
> Nox is what I call a big time pick off detecfor.
> Tighter than dick's hat band- stock coil.
> Smaller coil, if it's tighter oh my!

Excellent Post. And it certainly shows that you know your stuff. There would be another dimension added to the discussion, if a sniper coil were eventually added to the options.

Tom,
Everything I say as far as comparing Etrac to Nox is taking into consideration of like sized DD coils.
So, could an 8" coil for Etrac give It advantage over Nox?
Perhaps.
I don't have 8" coil,for Etrac or I would have tested.

Can already say this.
When you and Cal are hunting ghost town sites.
You might think a smaller coil will alert on things. Using Nox and even using other detectors.
They very well might.
But the stock coil on Nox stands a very good chance to see things nonferrous, other detectors maybe even Nox won't see wearing smaller coil.

Nox should be a honker of a detecfor in ghost town sites. Using all coils really. It just exposes crippled nonferrous a lot easier (and easier to decipher/hear too).
A rookie detectorist with average intelligence with a 2 hour crash course given by a more experienced Nox user/detectorist, can be hunting at what I call above average skill level.
Can't do this with a lot of other detectors.

Two- one hour blocks of instruction with a day in between to let rookie experiment with first hour of instruction then get one more hour-- OFF to the RACES!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2018 04:50AM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A rookie detectorist with average intelligence with a 2 hour crash course given by a more experienced Nox user/detectorist, can be hunting at what I call above average skill level.
>
> Two- one hour blocks of instruction with a day in between to let rookie experiment with first hour of instruction then get one more hour-- OFF to the RACES!!

I'm sure Andy S. will be able to stretch it into a full day "boot-camp"

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > A rookie detectorist with average intelligence w
> ith a 2 hour crash course given by a more experie
> nced Nox user/detectorist, can be hunting at what
> I call above average skill level.
> >
> > Two- one hour blocks of instruction with a day i
> n between to let rookie experiment with first hour
> of instruction then get one more hour-- OFF to the
> RACES!!
>
> I'm sure Andy S. will be able to stretch it into a
> full day "boot-camp"


Tell you what I would like to see.
I would like to see you, and some other folks like Calabash, Tom Slick and maybe a few others to get together maybe online and maybe tele and between all of you put together one smoking video or maybe make a multi part video series on the Equinox as far as setup and running. Using in various venues detecting.
Don't think I have ever seen this done.
A Bootcamp video.
I'll bet a certain person wouldn't like the sound of this.

There are some other quality folks who could take part.
Dean (Bado) is another one.
Daniel is another one.
Bryan is another one.
NC Wayne is another one.
Others too.
Team effort project could be a real gem.
Persons helping don't have to do actual video either, just help out thinking about situations/venues/ situations that need to be covered in video.

I wouldn't expect to see a finished product for a while.
Would prove interesting.
Folks get to show off their talents too.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2018 05:42AM by tnsharpshooter.

There were charts and hints in the Minelab technology posts prior to the release of the machine that showed and hinted the Nox would be a 2nd string player to the FBS flag ship machines *in certain areas and conditions*, while excelling at others. The chart at the dealer's shin dig showed more of what they were marketing the Nox against with competitor models. I just assumed that was common knowledge that had been passed around and talked about prior to the Nox release and was surprised that people were still putting the Nox up against the flagship FBSs in their core strength areas, and expecting different results. But I also assumed it was common knowledge for people to not eat Tide pods and to not take a suppository orally, and look where that got us. haha. I will say this though, I'm not going to sit here and philosophize what they meant with their words. I personally thought they were plain and straight forward about it, and not coded like a Playfair cipher.

I will say...Dilly Dilly on putting it on eBay right now under an auction. Mining the miners. Haha. It's already at MAP pricing with 2.5 days left to go on it. You'll end up making money off it, even after fees. And the best part of it is that you can do it without people saying you are price gouging, because it is an auction...which means you aren't setting the price that it sells for; the prospective buyers are regulating what they are willing to pay for it.

Tom, thanks for the informative reports. I've also decided I prefer my Etrac to my Equinox 600 in a park-type setting, for its more accurate ID and depth information. (Although the Equinox seems at least as deep as the Etrac.) I also hunt coins, not relics. However, I've been testing the Equinox mainly in trashy, iron-filled sites where the Etrac is practically paralyzed. There, the Equinox "sees" things the Etrac simply can't, even with a smaller coil. I suspect a smaller coil on the Equinox (when those folks down under see fit to provide one) will make it even more of a killer in that kind of environment.

Daniel, thanx for taking a stab at my post.


Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But I also assumed it was common
> knowledge for people to not eat Tide pods and to n
> ot take a suppository orally,

And ... what ? ... You mean breath mints are not installed the same way as suppositories are ?


Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally thought they were plai
> n and straight forward about it, and not coded lik
> e a Playfair cipher.
>

Sure. And reading the straight Minelab quote below: Note the words I put in italics. You have to admit that: Minelab was "pretty straight forward " . About how such a duel would have come out with an FBS. Eh? And you have to admit: A lot of consumer fanfair could have read it exactly this way, to think it was NOT going to be "2nd string" . Perhaps there's other pre-release statements from them saying something a little more admissive. But.... it's not this one.


" .... still have an advantage for finding high conductive silver coins in all conditions.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2018 12:52PM by Tom_in_CA.

Bayard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Earlier today I dug a clad quarter with a pull tab
> on top of it. The quarter signal was strong and c
> lear with quarter numbers on the readout. The Etr
> ac would have averaged the numbers and given me a
> readout of something like a zincoln.


Ok Bayard: I just completed an air-test with the Nox 800. Took a square tab. It reads 14. Then took a quarter: It reads 30. Then put the quarter directly behind the square tab, with a tad of space between the 2 targets (ie.: not touching): The signal is now in the upper teens (18-ish). Thus, yes, averaging up. But no, not a "quarter readout". Then I repeated the test with the quarter and tab smunched together (touching): Same results.

So I'm not sure what to make of your post above. Perhaps your pull-tab was slightly off to the side, and not directly/exactly on top ?