CZ-3D or CZ-70?

Tom,

I am thinking about purchasing either a used CZ-3D or a used CZ-70. Which would be a better purchase and why?

Thanks for your help, Bill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2008 01:19AM by BTaylor.

Batch consistencies are better on the CZ-70,,,,,, unless you can find a 1st generation CZ-3D. These are identified by a serial number that begins with '1121'. If you are a beginner to this hobby; I'd suggest the CZ-70. If you have a bit of experience..... I would STRONGLY recommend the CZ-3D.

Tom,

What do you mean by batch consistencies on the CZ-70? What about a CZ-3D with a serial number that starts with 1021?

Thanks again, Bill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2008 06:44PM by BTaylor.

When a Mfr tools up....and produces a 'run'....... a 'batch' of detectors due to demand,,,, the Mfr will produce .... say; a 1000 units. Then the Mfr "re-tools" for a DIFFERENT type of detector......,,,,,,, say... a batch of 1236-X2's. Time goes by..... and many other types of detectors are produced. Then......................... when the CZ-70 inventory becomes low again, , , the Mfr will 'tool-up' again..... and produce another batch of CZ-70's. And THIS is where larger differences usually occur; however, the CZ-70's ...... no matter which 'batch run'...... they have always been very consistent (unit-to-unit).

I have lost touch a bit...... but I believe units that have serial #'s that start with 1021xxxx & 1121xxxx should be fine. After you acquire,,,, a few tests can be run to verify performance levels.

Tom

I will second that on 1121 CZ-3D's. I just happened to get lucky and picked up a lifetime warranty new in box old stock CZ-3D with a 11210099 serial number(I looked after I read these posts) that has unbelieveable performance compared to any I have ever used thus far and I have had some real good ones. Since I liked them so much I have "studied" CZ-70's and their serial numbers/batches and got a good handle on which ones performed the best but I knew nothing about serial numbers for 3D's until these posts...thanks...NO question proper tuning is the key...HH



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2008 01:53AM by christopher-ohio.

Tom Can different batch CZ3D be "adjusted" to perform like the'1121' batch detectors?Bill

From what I understand, most detectors out there have performance specs at the factory. Since CZ's are hand-tuned, each one is somewhat unique often in the very slightest way. I would think that most any CZ can be recalibrated which could even further improve it's performance, however; there is a point of diminishing returns. I am completely happy with a detector that performs up to specs. I am sure that there are many super(tuned to exact specs) and a few great performing CZ-3D's in all of the batches/runs so if you have one that's not in these specific serial #'s, I wouldn't worry as long as it performs like it's supposed to. I have had a few other 3D's that were not in these series that performed great...HH

Easy to answer questions......... HOWEVER; they are VERY politically 'taboo' turf. First;

Bill = Yes & No. I have tuned many CZ's for many folks ...... to bring them into original/proper design specs. There is one catch. If the unit fails in the depth department,,,, usually,,,,, there is very limited cure...... short of changing components. (If I remember, it's a mis-match in Quad-driver components that require highly matched components so as to have the ability to drive the unit deeper into the 'lessor/lower' noise base-line).

For those folks of whom I have 'tuned' their specific units..... feel free to admit & share!

Extreme 'taboo' ....(in response to Chris' observations/statements).

Here goes:

I have had many CZ-3D's come across my bench that were not calibrated to '3D' (or.... not even CZ-5) spec's. Depth of these units ranged from 7" to 12" on a clad dime (a few were worse). The ID windows were out-of-spec's,,,,, deeper target audio responses were 'smeared',,,,, salt balance improper..... and a few other problems identified.

The first few batches of CZ-3D's that were Mfr'd in California Fisher plant were extremely good..... with minimal variations between unit-to-unit. Then..... the folks at Fisher..... became distressed when they realized they were going to lose their jobs; subsequently, the last batch of CZ's coming from Fisher Research Laboratory were sub-par.

Enter First Texas. The first few hundred CZ's (I believe) were Mfr'd in El Paso, Texas. These units may have been 'left-over' components/PC boards from California FRL. These units had the largest variation in Cal set-points from unit-to-unit. Now........ the CZ's are made in Mexico. Ironically..... the internals are quite solid; however, the set-points are not '3D' spec's. ,,,,,,,, and there is a fairly large variation between unit-to-unit. Currently, I'm adjusting/tuning a 3D for someone..... where nearly all of the specs are (were) out-of-spec. Fortunately, the depth of this particular unit is okay. It hurts me to say that most of the Mexican units are far from orig design Spec's.

Ironically, I have one CZ-3D from First Texas that .... out of the box.... is exactly within CZ-3D specifications. It'll acquire a dime at 12" air-test... AND 12" in Florida dirt (test-garden). This is the only 3D from FTP that has performed in such a fashion. All of my other CZ's acquire a dime nearly/at/or better than 12". This is with the standard 8" coil.

I have taken MUCH hot-fire for these CZ inconsistencies...... and it truly hurts me..... as I no longer have control (or input) to the new company. Mike Scott is now at the helm (hobbyline). I suppose what hurts the most is; I would love nothing more.... then to have many detectorists experience/utilize....... even for just one hunt......... the performance of a properly tuned CZ-3D..... and draw a conclusion. I think Christopher-Ohio has one (in very few) TRUE CZ-3D's.

Tom

hi tom!
so!..that being said!.what can i do IF i am still interested in,and FINALLY believe that the 3d has a definite performance edge,and i REALLY want to purchase one?.any recommendations?

tom!
in addendum may i add that fisher isn't giving em away,and in my humble opinion,they need to look closer at this issue,and find a solution!

Tom the reason I got rid of my CZ3d was it was'nt very deep,5 or 6 inches on a silver dime in low trash soil.It seemed to me the target id left lots to be desired.In enhanced nickels,buffaloes,V nickels and war nickels didn't high tone.My CZ 70 had much better depth and target id.I love the foil to nickel bounce with the CZ 70.

The 3D is the detector I spent 20 years and a bunch of money looking for. It blows me away every time I hunt with it. Every other detector I had (including My F75)has been sold because they were not even close to my 3D.

Just by virtue of the ... wide-array............... large-variations........... of comparing each persons CZ performance/operating characteristics here in this thread alone!!! ; CERTAINLY HAS THE ANSWER HEREIN! Looks like each person has TOO large of a comparable variation ..... to be disregarded. One person has 'top' performance...... another person has 'poor' operating performance. ..... And others have in-between performance. Hmmmmmm. Unfortunately, this makes a painful statement.

jmaryt = I can NOT answer your question. Besides; certain folks/companies would come down on me.... hard. Even though it may be factual. Deduce.

hi tom!
it's ok!i comprehend perfectly!..would not want to get involved with any liability issues!..i appreciate your efforts to make this detector (cz-3d) available to "coin shooters" everywhere,however,i cannot in good conscience justify the purchase of a possible "sub-par" detector!..i am disappointed to
learn that quality control at fisher is/was suspect in the production of this instrument!..i have owned a cz-6,and a cz-70,and have been pleased with the performance of these detectors!..i am "saddened" to hear of this!..perhaps "smart money would indicate that i attempt to get mr johnson to personally tune my cz-3d?..this thought has considerable merit!

regards!
john

hi tom!
in addendum,i meant no disrespect when making that statement about mr johnson!
if i was to purchase one,would you personally be willing to properly tune it?.if it of course,proved to be in need of same?..again no disrespect intended!.i spoke out of frustration!

regards!
john

Fear not. The CZ-3d is still a fine unit, if properly tuned. There are people out there that can and will tune them to proper specs.

I bought one and had it tuned to spec. Best detector I ever owned.

Ken

hi kas!
who tuned yours?..may i ask?..thanks!

john

I have just been asked to: "REPORT POSITIVE THINGS ONLY".

........ Hmmmmmmm

............. Honest negatives build a better breed via the evolution of 'honing'.

Herein lies the problem with this country today...free speech and voicing one's opinion freely?...a farce! The bottom line...everything is about money! We spend big bucks on most things today comparatively to days gone by and expect the product to be top notch, well-designed with the bugs worked out by extensive QC, yet they still cut corners, send out less than perfect as possible products and let us find the lemons for them...what happened to pride in one's work? I personally am disgusted with the whole business and those who want us who sound off about these problems to be hushed! All I'm using are my two new Los Banos 1121 CZ 3D's and I'm going to be very happy

We can't thank you enough Tom for your willingness to educate others out there in this hobby,this I'm sure costly forum, your honesty, and your time as well as developing some of the best coin detectors ever...the CZ-70 and 3D are fantastic detectors...I know how good and important correct tuning is for top performance with these detectors...it's just too bad the manufacturers didn't respect you and us enough spending the $, to insure top notch QC/performance to really make you shine like you deserve!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2008 11:09AM by christopher-ohio.

i am genuinley dismayed by these revelations of the cz-3d's inferior state of tuning from the factory!..one can only deduce that actual sale of these detecors MUST be low,and of little consequence compared to the new "f" series detectors!personally, i believe if these detectors were selling better,this issue would never have materialized!

"FOR WHAT DOTH IT PROFIT A MAN,IF HE SHALL GAIN THE WHOLE WORLD,AND LOSE HIS SOUL?

j.t.

Chris & John,

Thanks..... and so eloquently stated! And..... I have NOT 'hushed'!

----Interestingly, I recently received a phone call from a completely unrelated Manufacturer of whom simply wanted to tell me:

........."Your so-called perceived (potential) 'negatives' are merely free opportunity 'positives' disguised in money-green venue".

......... and went on to say = "If a no-no called 'emotions' become involved in a business transaction and negative emotions occur within that corporate structure that is involved because of your postings, then dangers lurk. Even worse: To discount and ignore a known problem is to wish for that problem to go away; and it will; in a greater wrongful fashion."

How true. . . and what a 'positive' eye-opener.

Tom

tom!
in the final analysis,one renders a judgement,arrives at a decision,and goes forward!..f-75!..can't miss!

regards!
john

Hi Tom

I have a 1021 CZ3D and it with out a doubt is the deepest old coin finding unit I own. I also sold my F-75 as the 3D is a much better coin shooter in the interfence laden inner city parks that I hunt. Whats cool about my 3D is that it will hit a small transit token at 10 inches and report it as a good target. When the 3D is correctly tuned there is no better old park deep coin hunter made. I've used them all and 3D is awesome machine (if you have a tuned one).

Ray(Ca)

What Ray said. I could have wrote this!! The F-75 was a "miss" for me.

The truth of the matter is........... The F-75 is unsurpassed & untouchable IN IT'S FIELD.

And the truth of the matter is........ The CZ-3D (properly tuned) is ALSO unsurpassed & untouchable in IT'S field.... ASSUMING THE UNIT IS PROPERLY TUNED. The CZ-3D's could be a money-maker from a corporate stance..... as long as the QC dept. is..... at minimum...... back to FRL California specs & standards. ... Which, is not difficult to ascertain. Proper advertising is a major factor also. This is ..... by NO means, a 'slam' on any one.... or any Mfr.

BOTH units are a corporate money-maker. Positive corporate outcome would prevail with some achievable steps.

But ALSO...... and truthfully, I know..... from a corporate stance...... all CZ's (because they are analog) are labor-intense to tune/align........ and, naturally..... the company would love to 'rid' the entire CZ line specifically because of this.

Ray & Bill, I completely understand your feelings/preference. A good CZ is nearly impervious to EMI..... and is audibly a pleasure (read = NOT fatiguing) to operate. MUCH greater symbiotic harmonious human & machine 'connect'. Where as the F-75 is EMI sensitive and can audibly be fatiguing..... but can run circles around most.... especially in iron.

Tom

The f-75 was just too much machine for me. I work in a manufacturing/fabrication plant here in MN which is hot, loud and NOISY, i detect, sometimes, just to get out and relax...and i just have to much interference in my neck of the woods for the 75 to be a quiet "get away", but mainly, i didnt like it because it was just too much for me to care to learn...but dang, what a friggin sweet air test the 75 does...took it by this lake where all is serene and it banged a dime at at least 12 inches (i didnt use it there, was water detecting w/ "tigey", just brought it with me to show someone the machine)...

Anyways, got lucky, traded a doctor friend for a cz3d "1121" new in the box, stashed away and never used...will have by tuesday. if it's a better machine then my old cz7apro was, i'll be ecstatic.

Appreciate all u do Tom, it's up to us to understand our machines, and if i researched detectors as well as i research hunting spots, i'd be ok, but i dont, i listen to others and get romped, but this site has been insightful, just wonderful...and your pointing people in the right direction is priceless...thanks again.

-Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2008 05:38AM by PanMan.