E Trac falsing and ground tracking

Wondering if anyone has any ideas on the E Trac and falsing on iron. Most specifically on how some E Tracs handle it better than others do. I have one that sometimes just locks on a solid silver 11-47, 12-46 on a nail and the pinpont is in the same spot. Just wondering if anyone has noticed a difference from machine to machine. Mine just got an update (new board / firmware) and new Pro Coil. It seems to false more now than it did before. I was always able to crank the sensitivity up and get some falsing, but now when I crank it (say 28) it falses pretty convincingly. lol This is the one flaw that I have found with the E Trac. I do well with it, but if there was just some way to be able to adjust the ground tracking, I think it would help. I also find that I can do tests inside the home with fluorescent lighting and get the machine to not false on iron and get really close to a coin and iron nail. But when I take it into the real world and introduce dirt to the equation, it falses. Thoughts anyone??

I've owned two and both appeared to run identical. The lower the sensitivity, the better the unmasking, the lower the probability of iron falsing and the poorer the depth.

Having used many units from various manufacturers I find tolerances vary along with tuning and two of the same unit
can vary in performance....A bad solder joint, weak component and yes even a coil not up to par along with settings, operator error and severe mineralization plus electrical interference all can add to the equasion..never compared two E-tracs but hunted with fellows with identical machines and our units were not equal in every respect so I would imagine the answer is yes to your question...Just speaking from time in the field in laymans terms as have no technical abilities.

When the unit is falsing like that during real world hunting, do you ever switch to a wide open Quickmask screen to 'see' what target or targets are in the ground ?

Did you ever try 2 tone Ferrous mode as opposed to muti tone Conductive mode ?

Thing is with that E-Trac, there are LOTS of adjustments that can be made.

The one main thing is to make sure you aren't running at too high a sensitivity. I would then hunt in a wide open Quickmask mode over the area giving you problems to see if the unit is falsing or is actually hitting on many ferrous targets and due to the high sensitivity, they are bleeding through the discriminated portion of your set up.

therover61 Wrote:
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> When the unit is falsing like that during real
> world hunting, do you ever switch to a wide open
> Quickmask screen to 'see' what target or targets
> are in the ground ?
>
> Did you ever try 2 tone Ferrous mode as opposed to
> muti tone Conductive mode ?
>
> Thing is with that E-Trac, there are LOTS of
> adjustments that can be made.
>
> The one main thing is to make sure you aren't
> running at too high a sensitivity. I would then
> hunt in a wide open Quickmask mode over the area
> giving you problems to see if the unit is falsing
> or is actually hitting on many ferrous targets and
> due to the high sensitivity, they are bleeding
> through the discriminated portion of your set up.


I hunt in two tone ferrous for relic hunting and the falsing is more controlled. But for parks, Multi conductive is the only way to go. High sensitivity is always needed to find the fringe targets that are still there. I usually hunt with those settings, but noticed that my repaired E Trac falsed more and most importantly, the falsing numbers now show 12-46, 11-47. These numbers were only there occasionally prior to repair. I have tried quickmask open, but there are mixed responses of having an open screen vs some level of discrimination. Even the manufacturer states some level of disc is needed to find the partailly masked targets. But the situation I was refering to was usually a lone nail causing the positive signal, sometimes it was a bolt and nut. These are not hooked over nails and some are really small. I guess I just was wondering if anyone noticed a difference in their machines after repair. I have tried many adjustments and so far can't calm the deep iron down without losing depth. I don't mind digging some deep iron, as that is always part of the game when looking for deep targets, but some of these signals, I would have bet the house on that they were gonna be silver lol. Even the Sunray probe said silver in the case of the nut and bolt. I'm just getting the feeling that some units where just more perfect than others and it just makes me a bit leary of repairing them, seeing as there is no way to control the process. With the ever changing world of plant closings / movings and new workers, I wonder how many marginally trained techs are doing these changes?? I wish I was talented enough to do my own repairs

CN, I don't know where you're located but based on what I see around here, my comment would be there will be days like that and I don't mean that lightly. Around here, as time goes on in the spring, the iron falsing typically evolves from mild and manageable (awesome finds!) then gradually gets worse to the point that on SOME days, even the straight small pieces will false as bad as all 4 ways well within a coin ID parameter. When the latter happens, I usually find no older coins or real close. This "change" is a trend but varies day to day, even hour to hour. When the iron isn't lit up that bad, I can typically find 8 to 12 old coins. Of course there are times where the falsing is somewhere in-between. A dozen old coins to skunked, then back to another dozen and the only variable is how the iron sounds. It even varies within each day. Reduced sensitivity can help a little but usually makes no difference in the finds in my sites when the iron is killing me that time out. If the iron is showing up in gang force, it wins, period, given the depth and level of masking of what coins remain and I'm sure there is a bunch. As for your particular detector, I personally wouldn't suspect the recent service being the culprit. One thing I would suggest is being more aware of what the suggested sensitivity level is calling for from day to day and note any differences and if they seem to correlate to the degree of iron falsing. I bet you would notice it calling for several numbers less on the days when the iron is falsing the worst. Probably if I had to guess, as far as your perception of worse falsing after the fix, and if ANY of it can really be pinned on the detector itself (and I doubt that), I'd say they probably made it a little hotter compared to original which isn't uncommon and that could present the "illusion" that there is a new problem with the detector when there isn't. So in review, try and still have fun, learn about the daily varying chuckholes and roadblocks, and don't blame the detector right out of the gate. I believe it to be conditions only.

Brad gave some good advice. Don't blame the Etrac. Just like you, I dig small nail pieces that sound good on my Etrac. Usually they are about an inch to an inch and a half long and fairly thin from corrosive action over the years. Sometimes the geometry, depth, etc. combine to make a small iron target look good. That's just the way it is. Usually the larger nail pieces give themselves away when you test the target from different approach angles.

Agree with all said here; only things I'll add are these two -- one, short but fat rusty iron bolts KILL me, I dig MANY of these that sound good with my SE Pro. Just the way it is, I guess. They sound and hit like silver dimes, to my relatively untrained ears!

Two -- we have been in a MAJOR drought ever since I got me SE Pro, so all experience I have gained has been in bone-dry, rock-hard soil. Then, Sunday, we got our first rain of any consequence in months, and it was a DROUGHT BUSTER -- nearly 3" over the course of a day or so. The soil is now SOAKED -- through a DEEP layer. Took my SE Pro out today, and it had the sensitivity settings saved from my last hunt. I went all of TEN FEET, and realized that manual/28 sens. was NOT going to work. The falsing was much more substantial, and the machine was acting very different from what I had become accustomed to. This was a very interesting experience for me, as it was a stark, drastic change -- a month of getting used to the machine in bone-dry soil, and then the very next day, hunting in virtual swampland. Definitely made a big difference in terms of what the machine did. I had to lower sens and run semi-auto the whole hunt.

My point is, maybe ground/environmental conditions have changed since you sent your machine away. I could see where if I had sent mine in a week ago, and got it back today and took it hunting, I might have thought the techs screwed it up, too!

(Now, if I ever get to where I can notice the HOUR TO HOUR changes in iron falsing, like Brad apparently can...WOW!)

Steve

BuckeyeBrad Wrote:
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> CN, I don't know where you're located but based on
> what I see around here, my comment would be there
> will be days like that and I don't mean that
> lightly. Around here, as time goes on in the
> spring, the iron falsing typically evolves from
> mild and manageable (awesome finds!) then
> gradually gets worse to the point that on SOME
> days, even the straight small pieces will false as
> bad as all 4 ways well within a coin ID parameter.
> When the latter happens, I usually find no older
> coins or real close. This "change" is a trend but
> varies day to day, even hour to hour. When the
> iron isn't lit up that bad, I can typically find 8
> to 12 old coins. Of course there are times where
> the falsing is somewhere in-between. A dozen old
> coins to skunked, then back to another dozen and
> the only variable is how the iron sounds. It even
> varies within each day. Reduced sensitivity can
> help a little but usually makes no difference in
> the finds in my sites when the iron is killing me
> that time out. If the iron is showing up in gang
> force, it wins, period, given the depth and level
> of masking of what coins remain and I'm sure there
> is a bunch. As for your particular detector, I
> personally wouldn't suspect the recent service
> being the culprit. One thing I would suggest is
> being more aware of what the suggested sensitivity
> level is calling for from day to day and note any
> differences and if they seem to correlate to the
> degree of iron falsing. I bet you would notice it
> calling for several numbers less on the days when
> the iron is falsing the worst. Probably if I had
> to guess, as far as your perception of worse
> falsing after the fix, and if ANY of it can really
> be pinned on the detector itself (and I doubt
> that), I'd say they probably made it a little
> hotter compared to original which isn't uncommon
> and that could present the "illusion" that there
> is a new problem with the detector when there
> isn't. So in review, try and still have fun, learn
> about the daily varying chuckholes and roadblocks,
> and don't blame the detector right out of the
> gate. I believe it to be conditions only.

Wow, Brad, I really enjoy reading your replies. Very thought out and the final note:
"still have fun, learn" yep that is what it's all about. I did that yesterday, went out with the Etrac and hunted the trash at a local school. What? trash, yes just hunted two hours in a place where I'd hunted before, listening to the ground.
Ended up with a little change I'd missed with the LTD. All the finds were in co-location with other trash items. Had a great time listening and learning.
I now have about 18 hours on the Etrac.

Steve, you can learn it easily. I could throw out some cheezy "do the 3 P's" thing (Practice, Pay Attention, Perseverance) but it's basically just a matter of observing and gaining experience. You'll see what I'm talking about if you have a good producing site and hunt it as often as possible. Near daily hunts at the same site will open your eyes to this relatively quickly.

Funny you mention that, Mark. Back when I was an officer in the local club I was getting tired of the meetings consisting of finds bragging and general BS'ing, which was the status quo for years before I had gotten involved. I wanted to get creative and instigate something more. The treasury couldn't support more than one good seeded hunt a year so I would come up with various things to do outside for folks with their detectors with the hopes that they could hopefully have fun and learn something in the process. One of those times I came up with the idea that we'd do a trash hunt and give away a few silver coins and some inexpensive MD related merchandise as prizes. All I did in prep was to script a points system for most common trash and misc. items and told everyone the finds would be "scored" but I didn't tell anyone what the point system consisted of until after the hunt. The reason I did that was to avoid anyone being able to focus and hone in on the big point items. As I was initially explaining what I had in mind, I was definitely worried that the old mindset of "Ewwwwww, trash digging" would prevail but they surprised me. Pretty much everyone opted in and after it was all over, they all genuinely had fun, inadvertantly unmasked a few good recoveries (the learning), we made a definite impact on the amount of trash in the park where we meet, and a few of the folks won some stuff. An idea that I was worried about turned out as good and better than I could have hoped for. The beauty of it is anyone can do what you did if they choose.

A couple days with an experienced mentor can make up for reading, researching, experimenting..

Many years ago with my first XS spent 3 hours on the phone with one and really cut down on the learning period.

Sure a heavy beast with the best guts of any unit around but for most a long learning period and yes even the best dig trash as even an Explorer is not perfect or for that matter either is an experienced hunter..Sort of adds to the hunt...detectors have come a long way but still need a good guy or gal behind the steering wheel...

Thanks guys. You may be right. I have had this E trac since the first month after it was released. I am pretty used to it and have done well with it. But what got me the most is that the other E Tracs have not faired as poorly with the iron as I have recently. I will recheck my sensitivity and try and adjust out the falsing. I may just run 2 tone for a bit to ease things up. I love this machine especially since it has increased my finds over my previous machine. Minelab technology is definitely better here in New England soil than my other machine. Will give it some more time. If they did make the machine hotter, then it would be nice to be able to take advantage of it.lol
dgc Wrote:
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> Brad gave some good advice. Don't blame the Etrac.
> Just like you, I dig small nail pieces that sound
> good on my Etrac. Usually they are about an inch
> to an inch and a half long and fairly thin from
> corrosive action over the years. Sometimes the
> geometry, depth, etc. combine to make a small iron
> target look good. That's just the way it is.
> Usually the larger nail pieces give themselves
> away when you test the target from different
> approach angles.