As Years go by.....

How does rust, big iron, and bleeding contribute to the problem? How does iron that deteriorates differ from ..... clad coins?

Yes I want to know the Type iron I'm over for digging or leaving for relics..

And I like to know when Im in a certain situation where a good target can get drug down to a certain Iron number in certain (soil/wet sand) I can go after that number.

Say a stud earring in air reads +6 but on wet salt will read -2.Well I know not much iron will read at that level...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2018 01:06AM by Keith Southern.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the Impact and Multi Kruzer you can select a st
> andardized scale that remains the same for all fre
> quencies, or you can select a TID scale specific t
> o the selected frequency.

Pretty sure that is how it works on the Deus if my memory is correct. I remember having to either remember ID's for each freq....or just normalize the TID across the ranges.

I want to say some of the Deus guys said not to normalize....as there might be performance anomalies if you do so...but unsure as it was 2 years ago.

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

TheHunterGT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > On the Impact and Multi Kruzer you can select a
> st
> > andardized scale that remains the same for all f
> re
> > quencies, or you can select a TID scale specific
> t
> > o the selected frequency.
>
> Pretty sure that is how it works on the Deus if my
> memory is correct. I remember having to either re
> member ID's for each freq....or just normalize the
> TID across the ranges.
>
> I want to say some of the Deus guys said not to no
> rmalize....as there might be performance anomalies
> if you do so...but unsure as it was 2 years ago.


If my memory serves, normalization only occurred at 18 kHz on the Deus. (was based on that frequency)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2018 09:37PM by D&P-OR.

I don't think the Nox has poor ID capability. In fact, in comparison to the many other units I have used, it is better than most. It is different than the other Minelabs but it fit my hunting style like a good pair of broke in boots.

Yesterday afternoon I was on my way to a little local spot I had dug Civil War relics in before. It has been hammered by everybody locally. I hadn't had the Nox there yet and saw they had bush hogged the grass on it. On my way there I was passing by my picnic grove site and saw a guy with a Whites detector out there hunting. I stopped and said hello...I had never seen this guy before and didn't know him. He had a MXT Pro...said he had it and a Minelab Safari. We talked for a minute and I told him I was heading to go hunt war relics and he asked where. I didn't answer but just said "ahh it's just a local spot close by that we've all hunted hard". He says "I don't relic hunt much but I have been to this one spot just right over there and found a few bullets". He told me where it was and it so happened to be the same spot I was headed. He said he had saw some guys hunting it before and went to check out what they had found. He said the last few times he hunted it, he hadn't found anything and had quit going. Same story for me too. But I only had bout 30 mins before dark and it was the closest place I had, and I was gonna be surprised if I had a signal at all. I got there and dug 3 dropped bullets. The fella came up there to see if I had found anything...he was curious about the Equinox. I showed him the bullets and he was floored...I dunno why because it was just bullets. He hung around as I located another potential bullet signal. He asked if I would hold on and let him check with his detector. He went back to his truck and got it...he had the D2 coil on the MXT. Fired it up and it read it entirely as iron. No hint of a non ferrous target there at all. I dug a small plug and checked the hole...down in it was another dropped 3 ringer approx 5 inches deep. This is just a testament to how the Nox handles soil conditions here. Most machines will do exactly as his MXT did...read non ferrous items as ferrous. The Equinox was giving a 15 ID the whole time. Right where a minie ball should be.

For the iron hunters...…… iron hunting is an art all unto itself. A good tool is paramount. A T-2 has a 40-point iron range. A F-75 has a 15-point iron range. The EQX has a 9-point iron range (-9 to -1). All of this means nothing...….. unless that "iron range" has ACCURATE/usable/intelligence within the body of the "iron range". In fact...…. many iron hunters could (nearly) care less about the non-ferrous/conductive performance side of the detector. They are after iron...….. and may not even look for the non-ferrous implements. Soooooooo………………… an ACCURATE iron span/range ...takes on a new meaning.
Also...…. it may appear that the Equinox '9-point' iron range is a poor 'span'. IF it's accurate...… 9-points of spectrum/span ...is more than enough. You can actually get away with as little as....a 5-point iron span range.... as long as it's accurate.
Going to new levels of performance with iron...… is a HUGE attribute..... to all.

MOST of the iron i run into ONLY hits at -1, -2 or -5 on the Nox out there in the water.

Ive started using the Nox new program....... and im not sure i like it. Ive attached a photo (unfortunately i dont know how to on here) in this thread. [metaldetectingforum.com] Notice the HUGE Stainless chain...... and that tiny gold earring, BOTH was a very very soft 1 digit reading. The chain sounded very much like a tiny piece of can slaw...... exactly like the earring.

Let me add....... i tested it on all my Xcals and my CTX...... in disc and PP and AM. The Xcal in PP wont hit it no matter what...... the CTX, you have to have it on the coil. I mean its junk....... but now i know why no one found it and why it was such a soft tone. Its not Iron......like someone said.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2018 08:40PM by dewcon4414.

Good discussion here.

I don't mind so much that the EQ800 doesn't have the Fe/Co display, what's important to me is that it can consistently recognize metallic objects for what they are and signal me accordingly. If it can see that there is rusty iron something or other in the ground with a good target next to it and let me know that both of them are there than I'm good. If i can pick through a park, with lots of conductive trash and differentiate between targets than I can find colocated items and decide to recover what might be important to me.

Having a picture drawn for me with a cursor on the screen of my Etrac is fine, but that picture is still a representation of the analysis being done with the signal. If Minelab has come up with a better way to analyze the signal coming back so the information given to me is more accurate and can be presented to me with just a pair of digits and some audio. Great. Than I don't need to carry around an etch-o-sketch.

The question that is always out there is the same, What are we still missing? What is still being masked and why? Is there a way to see more of these masked items? How?

Gonebeepin'

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

I think someone also brought up a good point ...... a great many of us just want to know its iron. Personally, id be ok with just a couple of iron digits lol....... BUT it wouldnt be a very good all around machine for those looking for iron. So how it identifies iron is very important to them and can be just as important to us looking to avoid certain kind of trash. Being able to categorize the iron properly could help us distinguish those deep targets that respond like iron but arent.

I think if you measure the CTX screen and Nox screen the say way you do phones you will find ...... 3 1/2" for both. It may come down to processing....... the more the machine has to do the slower it gets and maybe the more power it uses. There are two sides of the room .... those that want a ton of information and those who like the KISS method to detecting. For water hunting especially....... i like the KISS method iron or not, but for dirt wheres there is a lot more effort to dig or damage property the more information you have the better.

This past weekend...… I had the opportunity to hunt with a 'Iron Hunter'. He claims he's a Dentist by hobby..... and a Archaeologist/Iron Hunter by trade/profession. Very interesting/intelligent person. And "how" he selects his sites …. is an education all unto itself.

In a nutshell...… he uses a F75 in All Metal Mode. He lives within the "iron bandwidth" of the F75. He's not really concerned with non-ferrous targets. He claims that: "If he has time..... he may dig a few non-ferrous items". And "how" he explains the 0-15 iron bandwidth of the F75...…. and "how" it is applicable to his specific application.,.,.,.,.,., presents a totally different world to detecting...… then that of mine. Very low target ID's (say 0-2) are mineral. He loves this range....as..... 'mineral' speaks volumes...… and there's a whole other world of treasure hunting specific/discrete to this bandwidth of intelligence. Targets that are in the 2-5 ID range...… are badly decomposed iron.,.,.,.,.,.,., which.....in turn...… is 'telling' about the age of the site ...and the acidity of the dirt. ID's of 3-8 are various nails, small tools, hardware, barbed wire fence...…. and the like. ID's in the 7-12 range are tools, farming equipment, high-grade alloy implements, decomposed sheet steel … and a whole culture of implements. ID's of 10-15 are high-grade stainless, high-grade alloys, case-hardened tools, sheet steel that has not decomposed, forged implements, gun parts, tool steel...….etc...……..
His highest interest is the 7-12 ID range implements. The 10-15 ID range is more 'modern' hardware. He is more into the Archaeological/historical implements. Iron ID in concert with the breadth/width/girth of the audio..... is very 'telling'. It's fascinating to watch him get excited about digging a certain pinnacle bandwidth iron ID target.

He's got a Equinox on order...…. as …… the narrow 'iron range' on the EQX has a narrow (but telling) audio span within the body of the iron bandwidth. . . . . as long as 50-Tones is invoked.

"Discovering a World of the unknown"...…. is what I experienced with him.

What did he find?

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Lawrenzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What did he find?


Probably iron.

Id norm on the deus is pretty usefull but you still get differents id depending the frequency on wet sand (4khz was the most accurate id , best stability in wet with the regular 9coil), the goldfield mode doesnt normalize tho. I was using normalisation on mine as it too anoying to retain id for each frequency.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2018 09:59AM by youdig.

Lawrenzo…… of the items/implements that I can remember off of the top of my head:

4 axe heads
21 horseshoes
13 various assortment of tools
Enough horse saddle implements to build 4 complete saddle sets
One pistol barrel
3 flintlock hammers
4 boot spurs
12 belt buckles
Zero cannon balls (this tells a story)
2 plow points
7 tobacco (or cigar) tins
Several lag bolts
2 ship spikes

……. and a host of other UFO's (Unidentified Found Objects). He could paint a very good picture of days-gone-by. Fascinating.

That is fascinating, indeed! I can see where actually DIGGING the iron, on an old/historic site, could really be a superb way to "put the pieces of the puzzle together."

Fascinating!

Steve

Now that info is a gold nugget, Tom. I wonder how iron minerals affect his hunting?

HH
Mike

Still working on getting back to metal detecting , lost about 4 in fire last yr.
Somewhere I found a link to Tom's future detector , still looking for news on availability ?
I use to do mostly dredging in northern CA back in the 80s - early 90s , then started adding detectors .
Now looking to get back into nugget hunting to , - well all kinds of things , a reason to just get out & walk around , besides supplement social security .
At this point migrate with the weather - in the southwest in winter anticipating less , and then mostly snipping around rivers streams northern CA in summer , do to the ban on dredging .

By the time u guys all have a full investigation on one target I already dug that target and 5 others like it and found twice as much.

Interesting observation with my EQ800 and iron. Tom and I have been working some old camps, one of them was pure gold rush era relics, even though the overall site is older.

I dug several iron relics - axe heads, chisels, wrought iron chain, hatchet, etc., and oddly the all ID’d at 14 on the Equinox.

Obviously not iron wrap-around, but what was going on?

This was in field2, 50 tone, no disc/notch and stock coil.

Cal..... kind of what ive noticed about iron in the salt water. Iron doesnt seem to wrap around to the high digits with this machine like it might say with a DFX. Smaller iron/minerals seem to want to false/wrap around into the second bin (right there where small gold is)..... a bit bigger .... around 15 (like bottle caps).

Interesting this thread came up again. Recently..... with two different prototypes...… I have come to realize:

* When a new proto lands in my hands...…. on a subconscious level, I find myself digging hundreds (if not thousands) of iron targets..... to POSITIVELY VERIFY the iron ID accuracy of the new device.

* If a new Rev software update is uploaded...…….. the entire process starts all over again. Even though it may be the same detector..... it is the new software upload that has me 'distrusting' its iron ID accuracy ability...….. until I dig hundreds of iron items to 'positively' identify the accuracy of its ID system.
- How/when/why does the unit 'false'.
- What is the "%" of falsing.
- What is the 'ease' of being able to delineate ferrous from non-ferrous
- How accurate is the unit at correctly expressing the exact conductivity of the particular iron implement …. within the full iron conductivity range.
- Does different depths on a particular iron target..... cause the item to ID differently within the conductivity of the iron span-range...…… or...…. jump into the non-ferrous conductivity span-range.

These are only a few of my concerns/tests regarding iron. Also...… this is one of the primary culprits as to 'why' the non-ferrous ID range (and accuracy) has/can technologically advance. It's in the iron!

What was unusual about the Equinox ID'ing these iron relics just above nickle is that the audio was somewhat telling.

When I first got the EQ800 I dug a decent sized 18K gold ring, it too TID'd @ 14, but it had a strong solid audio response, one of those signals you simply wouldn't ignore.

These iron relics, although they TID'd @ 14 as well, the audio response was different, muted would be the best way to describe it. So that's interesting that an identical TID on the EQ800 can have a different audio response. That's actually pretty telling of the engineering that went into the machine IMO. Sure I wasn't looking for iron relics (although I did keep one tomahawk looking hatchet head), it gives you additional insight into the target characteristics. At this particular site, everything was 1850's so anything that TID'd in the ferrous range I was digging as one never knows what history they may save.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2018 05:21PM by Cal_cobra.

" I found a link to Tom's future detector , still looking for news on availability ? "
Trying again to find ?

Cal....is it possible the density AND more so that the ring is round that changes the audio? We have always said that when using machines like the Xcal....we get that solid round tone. I wear two big 14k rings both of them are a solid 15....bottle cap. Yet a bottle cap will give the tones for 15....-1....and maybe 26. Depending on where the target is under/near the coil.

Hey Dew, Not too sure what's going on with the audio, but I like it. It has a much more analog audio response than digital in 50 tones, and that's a good thing to my ears.

The only iron relic I saved from this site where they were ID'ing at 14 was a hatchet head that looks more like a tomahawk then anything. If I have a chance this weekend, I'll scan both it and the 18K ring and see if I can replicate the TID and more importantly, the audio characteristics out of the ground.